How about Daniel Bard so far?

[Dojji]

Much better start tonight, against a pretty solid lineup. I'd like him to go deeper, but I'll take 5+ good innings with 4 K's.

[jacksonianmarch]

It was a baby step in the right direction. The project is a failure if he is showing a lack of K potential, and last night he showed he could strike people out.

[Station 13]

He got some velocity back yesterday, lots of 94 and topping 95. Changeup still inconsistent. Look great at times and left one up fielder hit a mile. But he is the only starter to pitch into the 6th inning in every start. Last year our 4-5 starters gets blown out by the 2nd or 3rd.

[a700hitter]

He got some velocity back yesterday' date=' lots of 94 and topping 95. Changeup still inconsistent. Look great at times and left one up fielder hit a mile. But he is the only starter to pitch into the 6th inning in every start. Last year our 4-5 starters gets blown out by the 2nd or 3rd.[/quote']yesterday, was a big step in the right direction for Bard. It's the first progress that he has shown in some time.

[SoxSport]

If he can only throw 92-93 as a starter' date=' I'm not sure if he has enough offspeed stuff to get by longterm. It doesn't matter right now since they don't have a better SP option. I hope he gets better, but we'll have to see.[/quote']

 

I would echo this, as I did in the game thread last night. He was throwing 93-94, but he has to have good command to be effective since he doesn't have other good pitches at this point. He isn't a top 3 starter--yet. He has to be a top 3 to justify removing him from a setup or closer role, where he can be dominant with his 97 heat. Right now, they are basically saving money having him start--replacing Lackey, you could say. And they are one good reliever short in the bullpen without him or Bailey there.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Step in the right direction, velocity was back up which was a good sign. Swinging strike percentage has been trending upward to the past 4 games to 7.5% last night. If he can get that back into the 9-10% range he was at at the beginning of the season I think he'll be in good shape.

[Station 13]

Step in the right direction' date=' velocity was back up which was a good sign. Swinging strike percentage has been trending upward to the past 4 games to 7.5% last night. If he can get that back into the 9-10% range he was at at the beginning of the season I think he'll be in good shape.[/quote']

 

He was 15%+ his first 3 starts. That come with a deadly slider, and I yet to see that slider on a consistent basis.

[jung]

True, Bard has not thrown the slider with enough consistency as yet. But truth be told if there was one place where Bard actually bested Verlander last night it was the consistency with which Bard was able to get RH hitters out with that slider. He actually had a more consistent Slider than Verlander had last night.

 

While that was far from Verlander's best performance, Bard did not best him any other way last night but he did get the better of him with the slider.

[Palodios]

For anyone who didn't watch today's start from Bard-- its time to put him back to the bullpen. Now.

 

1.62 WHIP, 4.91 ERA, and significantly diminished velocity. If that doesn't tell you the full story, I don't know what will. I'll be the first to admit I was originally one of the supporters of the move, but it just doesn't make sense anymore.

[Station 13]

Shown some glimpses of improvement, but the flaws stick out like a sore thumb again today. No control, no velocity. DL him.

[Elktonnick]

Send him down to Pawtucket to relearn how to be a reliever.

[youmetaxidermy]

I was never a fan of the project to begin with. He showed some promise now and again but I still think he's better off in the bullpen. I don't think there are too many immediate answers to the rotation for this season, really.

[FredLynn]

Maybe we could somehow stretch Padilla out a bit so he could assume a SP role at the end of the season. Bard is a failure and possibly facing the beginning of the end of his career. We could send Padilla down and bring up Melancon to see if that will work out. Alternatively, make a trade to get Garza to replace Bard or Doubront, when he reaches his innings limit.

[jung]

Boy that gash in Cooks knee really did slow him up. Tough brake for him and for the Sox. He might end up ready before dice is ready. I would almost bet on it at this point.

[redsoxrules]

They need to put him in the bulpen .

If he still bitches that he wants to be a starter , then trade him.

But I think he'll realize himself that he belongs as a releiver .

[Palodios]

That was the first time in Red Sox history that a pitcher has walked/hit that many batters in only two innings.

[SoxSport]

Bard hasn't shown the consistency as a starter as he showed as a setup man. I still suspect the switch to starter was a cost control factor--cheaper than signing a free agent pitcher. I still think he was the logical successor to Pap--before Henry decided to turn off the money and the FO had to get creative.

 

I looked at the team stats today: the Sox are 2nd to last in team ERA in the AL. And only Colorado is worse in the NL. So they're the 3rd worst team in the majors. Why is this team so bad in pitching the past few years? Is it the fault of individual pitchers? Or the management? Or both? It's a complicated issue, but this team will go nowhere unless it figures out what's wrong with the pitching.

[Dojji]

Well that was one, as in uno, as in singlar, very bad outing for Bard.

[Palodios]

Well that was one' date=' as in uno, as in singlar, very bad outing for Bard.[/quote']

 

Bard has given up 7+ baserunners EVERY SINGLE START! It isn't like he's had games where he blows batters away, and sometimes he has a bad outing. He always gives up base runners.

 

Every single stat says that this project has been a failure. K/9, IP, ERA, WHIP, W/L, BAA. Its done, he's better off in the pen.

[FredLynn]

Well that was one' date=' as in uno, as in singlar, very bad outing for Bard.[/quote']

 

Take off the blinders. Really.

[FredLynn]

Bard hasn't shown the consistency as a starter as he showed as a setup man. I still suspect the switch to starter was a cost control factor--cheaper than signing a free agent pitcher. I still think he was the logical successor to Pap--before Henry decided to turn off the money and the FO had to get creative.

 

I looked at the team stats today: the Sox are 2nd to last in team ERA in the AL. And only Colorado is worse in the NL. So they're the 3rd worst team in the majors. Why is this team so bad in pitching the past few years? Is it the fault of individual pitchers? Or the management? Or both? It's a complicated issue, but this team will go nowhere unless it figures out what's wrong with the pitching.

 

Part of it is, IMO, a lack of emphasis in obtaining and retaining top flight pitching in terms of where the dollars are going. Another part of it is the ongoing inability to even recognize what a top flight pitcher looks like. One of my main complaints about Epstein is that he is a horrible judge of talent, especially ML pitching talent. He did better with minor league guys and position players, but his track record on obtaining high quality pitching is abyssmal.

[iortiz]

I said I needed to see more. It's enough. This experiment must end, NOW! and FO should be looking for someone else in order to fill that hole. Send Bard where he belongs. He is a great setup pitcher.

[example1]

Matsuzaka will be the obvious choice.

 

Let's just hope that Bard is able to regain his form as a relief pitcher.

[jung]

dice would seem the natural choice even if he is not to the Sox way of thinking completely ready. Not sure why they had been sending us such good vibes news on dice and then sort of pulled the plug based on a start that just did not go that well.

 

Anyway I would like to see the Sox just do it....bring him up at this point....unless they have a better option for the 5 hole. Just don't know who. Feel bad for Cook not because I thought he was the answer but because he worked hard for his shot and really does deserve one at some point.

 

Almost wish he would beat dice back just to at least get one real shot at a start up here.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's time to bring up DiceK. He has now had two solid starts in a row with AAA and there is only so much a big leaguer can do in the minors anyway, since there is no big crowd and less pressure. He needs to come up and supplant Bard.

[seabeachfred]

dice would seem the natural choice even if he is not to the Sox way of thinking completely ready. Not sure why they had been sending us such good vibes news on dice and then sort of pulled the plug based on a start that just did not go that well.

 

Anyway I would like to see the Sox just do it....bring him up at this point....unless they have a better option for the 5 hole. Just don't know who. Feel bad for Cook not because I thought he was the answer but because he worked hard for his shot and really does deserve one at some point.

 

Almost wish he would beat dice back just to at least get one real shot at a start up here.

 

The BarF experiment has been a colossal failure. Can't we all just come right out and admit it? If today wasn't the clincher I would suggest those of you who still will not give up the ghost get yourselves a deeper pair of rose colored glasses. I only hope we haven't ruined the guy by misuse as we did with Hansen a few years back. Anyone remember him?

 

I don't know if the mound rodent has learned to challenge the hitters more and will be an effective pitcher for us, but right now I would take Dice K over BarF in a heartbeat. If not him, then Cook, but Bard e ither has to go back to Pawtucket to learn how to pitch or be sent to the bullpen to work his problems out. I also think we should let Bobby pick his own pitching coach. I once said that I didn't think Bob McClure had the right stuff for this job and though that was only my opinion, the results of our staff being the third worst in baseball speaks volumes. After this season Bobby should be allowed to pick his own pitching coach and that should be Bob Apodaca, who was his pitching coach when he managed the Mets to the WS in 2000.

[jacksonianmarch]

Fred, we have been over this. Hansen never had big league success. He was rushed through the minors and remained in relief. Bard has had big league success, so the cases are incredibly dissimilar

[jacksonianmarch]

That was the first time in Red Sox history that a pitcher has walked/hit that many batters in only two innings.

 

This was the first time since 1918 that any big league pitcher walked 6 and hit 2 or more batters in 2 innings or less

[a700hitter]

This was the first time since 1918 that any big league pitcher walked 6 and hit 2 or more batters in 2 innings or less

Wow!!! That is not the kind of history that you want to make as you are trying to become a starting pitcher.

[Elktonnick]

Bard was a menace on the mound today. He not only endangered the opposing batters but his own team as well. In fifty plus years of watching this team play I've never seen anything like it. And this came after Bard complained that BV took him out too soon in his last start. If it were up to me the next time Bard pitched it would be at McCoy Stadium.