Bard to Rotation a Mistake?

[Spitball]

The stuff was there then as well. The guy couldnt locate. They shortened his arsenal' date=' dropping his windup and voila, he could locate. Now, they are trying to stretch him out and boom, he's walked 13 batters in 18 innings and only struck out 11. I know it is the spring, but do you find it weird that a guy who walked 1 batter every 3 innings last season out of the pen has walked over 2 batters every 3 innings in the spring? I know it is the spring, but Bard is a guy trying to win a spot. He isnt Lester or Beckett, who I could really care less about in terms of numbers. You know they can produce in the season. Bard is an unknown, and thus far, he's been awful. Learn the lesson of Joba. f*** with a good thing and you could get someone stuck in the middle.[/quote']

 

Last I saw, Nova had an ERA near 7.00 and Cano was OPSing about .600 for the spring. Those sample sizes are way too small to declare failure. Bard, Nova, and Cano are better than their spring numbers.

[jung]

The Bard "experiment" is worth the risk in my estimation. Sox don't have many good options and we will be turning summersaults if this works out although..... I understand why you won't be turning summersaults if it works Jacko.

 

V seems to have figured out that publicly criticizing Bard's efforts was not going to do him any good. If it was supposed to represent some V reverse psychology, it was not working nor do I think it was going to work in Bard's case.

[seabeachfred]

It is very disappointing that no one has stepped up to claim one of the 2 available spots. I had hoped that at least 1 guy would step it up big time' date=' but with one turn left to go around the rotation, no one has stepped up. I really thought it would be Bard, but he has looked ordinary at best. We can be as optimistic as we like, but no one is winning the jobs.[/quote']

 

Maybe we should both get on the Cook bandwagon 700. You know, the guy who couldn't break a pane of glass. I mean is this desperation city or not? No one seems to want to claim one of the two spots that are open. At least one of those places should have been filled by now. I'll tell you this, though. It isn't Bard. I just don't think he is cut out for a starting role. He has looked like sh!t warmed over; his control is bad, he is getting hit and he looks lost on the mound. Put him back in the bullpen where he belongs before it's too late to salvage anything with this guy---or to paraphrase one Tito Francona, "we don't want to lose him".:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[iortiz]

It is very disappointing that no one has stepped up to claim one of the 2 available spots. I had hoped that at least 1 guy would step it up big time' date=' but with one turn left to go around the rotation, no one has stepped up. I really thought it would be Bard, but [b']he has looked ordinary at best[/b]. We can be as optimistic as we like, but no one is winning the jobs.

... at very best.

 

I want to see this in an optimistic way, but I do not find out how. Hopefully FO's decisions do not tax us this season at pitching again.

[jung]

You know things are ugly when we start hoping Cook is going to bail this mess out.

 

Cook needs to start the season in Pawtucket and if he does not fall apart there, come up when the first inevitable injury happens to one of the first 5 guys. I do like his presence on the mound but the fact that we are thinking about him at all says more about the degree of concern we have for what we have seen so far.

 

Based on what we have seen I don't think there is a way to deny Doubront a spot in the rotation at the start of the season. I can rationalize just about anything else they decide to do although I have made it plane that I think Bard will get his shot based on a number of factors.

 

Virtually everything we are discussing is a reflection of how nonplussed we have been by what we have seen from this group and then bouncing that off our expectations for pitching in the AL East. If the Sox had gone into this looking for one guy out all the riffraff that they brought in and had not gone pocking around in their bullpen for help that would be one thing. However looking for two guys out of that was always going to be very tough. That is the road they went down and here we are. On the bright side, dice seems to be coming along thankfully.

 

Just make sure your seat belts are fastened because it is going to be a bumpy ride.

[Spudboy]

It's still early in the year and the season has not started.

 

This is no time to panic.

[a700hitter]

It's still early in the year and the season has not started.

 

This is no time to panic.

The truth is that the Yankees staff crushes ours. Hughes has pitched well this spring. They have Sabathia at the top of the rotation and Nova at the bottom. They have added Kuroda and Pineda and they have Pettitte waiting in the wings. We have 3 pitchers.

[Spudboy]

The truth is that the Yankees staff crushes ours. Hughes has pitched well this spring. They have Sabathia at the top of the rotation and Nova at the bottom. They have added Kuroda and Pineda and they have Pettitte waiting in the wings. We have 3 pitchers.

 

Well I guess that I have been put in my place!;)

[Bellhorn04]

The truth is that the Yankees staff crushes ours. Hughes has pitched well this spring. They have Sabathia at the top of the rotation and Nova at the bottom. They have added Kuroda and Pineda and they have Pettitte waiting in the wings. We have 3 pitchers.

 

That does appear to be the grim reality of it, though we might be a little better than 3 pitchers. Our only shot is the wild card.

 

It could be an entertaining year. But on paper the Yankees pitching staff absolutely shreds ours.

[a700hitter]

Well I guess that I have been put in my place!;)

Spud, I'd never give you the slap down. I agree that it is spring and time to be optimistic. It isn't time to throw in the towel. They have to play the games, but objectively the Yanks staffis much stronger and deeper than ours. As we learned last year strength on paper doesn't always translate on the field.

[Spudboy]

Spud' date=' I'd never give you the slap down. I agree that it is spring and time to be optimistic. [b']It isn't time to throw in the towel. They have to play the games, [/b]but objectively the Yanks staffis much stronger and deeper than ours. As we learned last year strength on paper doesn't always translate on the field.

 

I know you were not slapping me down. Hence the smileys.

 

And the bolded portion of your post is my point, really. Anything can happen in 162 games and I remain optimistic about the Sox. They still have a very formidable roster. Some big question marks exist, true. But as comprised I don't fear that they will finish 20 games out of first.

 

We'll see!

[a700hitter]

I know you were not slapping me down. Hence the smileys.

 

And the bolded portion of your post is my point, really. Anything can happen in 162 games and I remain optimistic about the Sox. They still have a very formidable roster. Some big question marks exist, true. But as comprised I don't fear that they will finish 20 games out of first.

 

We'll see!

Yep, I knew you were kidding. I was just setting the record straight for the rest of the board. I completely agree with your post.

[a700hitter]

The idea that Roy Oswalt wants to play in the Midwest or South can be overcome with money, according to a major league source. To get him, Cafardo writes that the Red Sox have to loosen their purse strings.

[jung]

As much as we might want him I don't think the Sox will open their purse strings for Oswalt. The guy is a walking injury time bomb and we already have basically the make up of a pretty good pitching staff on the DL. Don't think it will happen. I am not even sure at this point they will resurrect the $5M offer from earlier in the off season.

[SoxSport]

I think Henry is pissed about last year and has pulled the plug on the money. He probably feels he gave the GM too much purse string power, and he has taken it back. I doubt Ben can spend a dime without LLs approval.

 

The Yankees don't operate that way. If they underachieve, they discard players--eating salary, and buy more. That's why you can't really compare the Yankees to anybody else, though the Angels now have the local TV revenue to free spend as well--which they are doing.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Henry is pissed about last year and has pulled the plug on the money. He probably feels he gave the GM too much purse string power, and he has taken it back. I doubt Ben can spend a dime without LLs approval.

 

The Yankees don't operate that way. If they underachieve, they discard players--eating salary, and buy more. That's why you can't really compare the Yankees to anybody else, though the Angels now have the local TV revenue to free spend as well--which they are doing.

 

I don't know, I think the Red Sox have now significantly closed the gap on the Yankees spending-wise. Especially if you compare payroll as a percentage of revenue-on that basis we are outspending them.

 

I think what tightened the purse strings this year was simply all the money that was already committed. They are already projected to be over the luxury tax threshold by $5 to $10 million.

[ORS]

I don't know, I think the Red Sox have now significantly closed the gap on the Yankees spending-wise. Especially if you compare payroll as a percentage of revenue-on that basis we are outspending them.

 

I think what tightened the purse strings this year was simply all the money that was already committed. They are already projected to be over the luxury tax threshold by $5 to $10 million.

I agree, and I don't think they are averse to paying market value, but they are averse to the 40% LT markup. I know I would be.

[iortiz]

I don't know, I think the Red Sox have now significantly closed the gap on the Yankees spending-wise. Especially if you compare payroll as a percentage of revenue-on that basis we are outspending them.

 

I think what tightened the purse strings this year was simply all the money that was already committed. They are already projected to be over the luxury tax threshold by $5 to $10 million.

 

This is why maybe some fans and probably even Henry/Cherington are pissed off, mostly when characters like D-K, Lackey, Jenks and Crawford are between cottons/underperform and at the same time we have a huge question mark in our pitching these days.

[Spudboy]

I agree' date=' and I don't think they are averse to paying market value, but they are averse to the 40% LT markup. I know I would be.[/quote']

 

I agree as well.

 

It probably comes down to the Sox brass waiting for some R.O.I..

 

The first thing I had to learn when I started my first business is you don't spend money money unless you know (with some confidence) that that money will yield a worthwhile return.

 

Last year this did not appear to happen.

[SoxSport]

I don't know, I think the Red Sox have now significantly closed the gap on the Yankees spending-wise. Especially if you compare payroll as a percentage of revenue-on that basis we are outspending them.

 

I think what tightened the purse strings this year was simply all the money that was already committed. They are already projected to be over the luxury tax threshold by $5 to $10 million.

 

Ha. It's more like the rabbit and the greyhounds: when the hounds get closer, the rabbit just pulls away. The Red Sox are way overbudgeted, by 20-30 mil, which is why Henry pulled the plug. Stupid signings the last couple years did it--and did in Epstein.

[kapsis21]

Bard 6.0 IP 3ER, and the damage again was with walks, 2 runs coming from walks. that too against a meek Twins lineup..

[Bellhorn04]

Still cautiously optimistic about Bard as a starter. Keeping in mind that these spring games are his only starts at the major league level, he seems to be progressing okay.

[a700hitter]

He finished the Spring with a 6.57 ERA, and that was after throwing 3 scoreless frames in his first 2 outings. It was a disappointing Spring forBard, but he was improving at the end.

[jacksonianmarch]

The walks are the concern. We know he has the stuff, but if he isnt locating, he will not be successful

[kapsis21]

The walks are the concern. We know he has the stuff' date=' but if he isnt locating, he will not be successful[/quote']

 

i know its easy to make assumptions, but lets refrain from them for now. isnt locating would probably be something on the lines of 3IP 7ER.. huge difference.

 

Still cautiously optimistic about Bard as a starter. Keeping in mind that these spring games are his only starts at the major league level' date=' he seems to be progressing okay.[/quote']

 

hear ya!

[Station 13]

Bard kinda running on fumes by the 6th. But the stats thru 5 were 2H, 1BB/7K. Got a little cute in the 6th by walking a lead hitter. Can't be doing that. Throw in the 2run bloop single it's like throwing rocks in the mirror.

 

Reports are he was 94-98 in the first 5, and 92-96 in the 6th.

 

Cut down the walks and save the pitch count and we could get a really good starter that is expected to go 6-8 innings regularly.

 

It was a very encouraging start today.

[FredLynn]

Bard 6.0 IP 3ER' date=' and the damage again was with walks, 2 runs coming from walks. that too against a meek Twins lineup..[/quote']

 

I would take those statistics from my #4 SP any day, especially when compared to how our bottom of the rotation starting pitchers did last year. This will be a learning process for Bard. I think he will improve as the season progresses. He is in a new situation now; I know of few people who can just walk into a brand new job, as he has, and excel immediately.

The jury is still out on his viability as a SP, but like Bellhorn, I am cautiously optimistic.

[mvp 78]

When it comes down to it, it's worth the risk to at least try and develop him as a SP. Relievers are a dime a dozen.

[Station 13]

When it comes down to it' date=' it's worth the risk to at least try and develop him as a SP. Relievers are a dime a dozen.[/quote']

 

Well you have to love his arm and potential. He's gotten better the last 2 starts but still encounters that 1 hiccup inning.

[ORS]

Well you have to love his arm and potential. He's gotten better the last 2 starts but still encounters that 1 hiccup inning.

I think these types of bumps in the road are to be expected and should be endured for the long-term gain.