Valentine's Big Mouth

[MANNYHOF24]

I agree with this. You know, it's possible that Youk HAS been slacking off this spring, and BV and other staff have noticed it. BV was brought in to break players out of their little comfort zone of running the asylum. So he called out Youk for his slow start and (possible) diminished effort. I'm fine with that.

 

I DON"T like his backtracking and half assed apologizing. Basically he's let Pedroia scold him and now he looks weak.

 

What we just witnessed was the first and perhaps the last power struggle of the Bobby V era. And the players won.

 

Can you imagine a player on the Tigers dissing Leyland like Pedey dissed BV?

 

Incredible.

 

Bobby V=Tito 2.0

 

Well except for the fact that no one has backed up Bobby's story whatsoever. Including Cherrington.

[Gringo]

Well in a sense, you can say that the Sox organization has done it again. They left Tito a lame duck manager for the 2011 season and has basically done the same thing in just offering V a two year contract. The Sox won't care one bit if they dump V after this season and eat the last year of his contract which may not be guaranteed anyway. The players know V has very little power in the organization because of the term of his contract.

 

Contracts and money mean everything in baseball. You make this much and I make that much than you means I have more power than you. It is that simple and is looked at very seriously by the players. A two year managers contract impresses nobody and is the equivalent of leaving Tito a lame duck in 2011.

 

Yep, good point. It probably wasn't the smartest appointment they could have made. It'll be interesting to see where we are in July and if the manager digs in his heels or is put on the back heel by the players more and more.

[Gringo]

Well except for the fact that no one has backed up Bobby's story whatsoever. Including Cherrington.

 

I'm sure that the F.O. have circled the wagons and issued a gag order club-wide on this. Whether they agree with BV or not, they want this story quashed.

[Elktonnick]

I agree with this. You know, it's possible that Youk HAS been slacking off this spring, and BV and other staff have noticed it. BV was brought in to break players out of their little comfort zone of running the asylum. So he called out Youk for his slow start and (possible) diminished effort. I'm fine with that.

 

I DON"T like his backtracking and half assed apologizing. Basically he's let Pedroia scold him and now he looks weak.

 

What we just witnessed was the first and perhaps the last power struggle of the Bobby V era. And the players won.

 

Can you imagine a player on the Tigers dissing Leyland like Pedey dissed BV?

 

Incredible.

 

Bobby V=Tito 2.0

 

While I think you have made an excellent point about the players appearing to have won this round, it was a Pyrrhic victory especially for Pedroia. For the first time, there are those (albeit a minority) in the press who are openningly criticizing Pedroia. We'll see how this plays out but Pedroia's reputation could be the biggest loser in this fiasco if the players fail to respond and let the team down by underperforming as they did last year. My hope is that this doesn't happen. If the team starts winning this will all be forgotten, but if they lose the series to Texas and then again to the Yankees, the fit will really hit the shan, and everyone will smell like horse manure. Then what does Cherrington do?

[jung]

Then what does Cherrington do?

 

Well if the team does not play up to its potential I don't know what BC does. However at least the shoe is on the right foot.

 

I could care less whether Pedroia's reputation with the media goes down the drain. If the players line up behind him and Pedey feels that he has an obligation to the fact that they have then finally...finally we will have the players feeling like it will be one of their own and maybe more than one of their own that gets f***ed in all of this if they do not perform.

 

It has happened ugly (what else is new with V) and I do not believe V had some grand strategy to make it all come out this way but the fact is there is a very good chance that the Sox will have accomplished something here...something that did not get accomplished last year. It may well finally be a team again, a team with players that take some responsibility for what happens on the field.

[a700hitter]

This Bobby V discussion IMO is exactly what the FO wanted when they hired him. He's a good baseball guy and a great teacher, but he is a lightning rod and an attention whore. I really think they wanted everyone talking about Bobby and debating his ego and lack of tact and clubhouse mini- dramas. This distracts from the fact that the owners and GM didn't lift a finger to improve this team in the off season, and now after the closer and Ellsbury have gone down still nothing is getting done. Almost no one is discussing whether the Sox should be looking to reinforce the squad. Instead, everyone is discussing whether Youk got his feelings hurt and whether or not the players like Bobby V. It's the distraction that the owners wanted. It hasn't distracted me. I pretty much couldn't care less what any manger says about anything. I would like some reinforcements for the pitching and on the bench. Nates Spears? Are you kidding me?

[jung]

Now that I do agree with 700. I absolutely think that especially LL wanted this V. I was convinced of it the day it was announced. He wanted this V maybe with a little more Baseball Genius V thrown into the mix with loudmouth lightning Rod V.

 

That does not mean that V's act might eventually grow tiresome for this organization as it has for other organizations. But there is no question in my mind about LL wanting it this way.

[Elktonnick]

Now that I do agree with 700. I absolutely think that especially LL wanted this V. I was convinced of it the day it was announced. He wanted this V maybe with a little more Baseball Genius V thrown into the mix with loudmouth lightning Rod V.

 

That does not mean that V's act might eventually grow tiresome for this organization as it has for other organizations. But there is no question in my mind about LL wanting it this way.

 

I agree with both of you Let me add a new thought. They knew that some players would rebel especially the prima donnas and don't care because they needed someone to take the fall. Enter Bobby V.

[a700hitter]

I agree with both of you Let me add a new thought. They knew that some players would rebel especially the prima donnas and don't care because they needed someone to take the fall. Enter Bobby V.

There were rumors last season that Youk was a clubhouse problem, so it is curious that Bobby V. picked him as the first sacred cow to get Bobby V's needle. Maybe they figure that he'll clean up his clubhouse act or blow himself up in a confrontation with the manager.

[Elktonnick]

There were rumors last season that Youk was a clubhouse problem' date=' so it is curious that Bobby V. picked him as the first sacred cow to get Bobby V's needle. Maybe they figure that he'll clean up his clubhouse act or blow himself up in a confrontation with the manager.[/quote']

 

There were more than just rumors, Jackie MacMullan came right out and said it.

[Brennan]

I like it. I never thought Valentine was the best choice in the first place but if he is gonna make these babies man up then maybe he was a good choice. These guys already know how to play baseball but some of them have seemed to lack the drive to do so for a long, long time. After last year I think these guys pretty much ALL have to work to earn the respect of the fan base.

 

 

And thank God for this place's ignore feature by the way.

[TeddyBallGame9]

Are some of you V-haters feeling that way because of his deep connection to New York?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No, I feel that way because the guy's a goon. Typical old baseball guy who doesn't know dick.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' I feel that way because the guy's a goon. Typical old baseball guy who doesn't know dick.[/quote']Young baseball guys know dick?

[Elktonnick]

No' date=' I feel that way because the guy's a goon. Typical old baseball guy who doesn't know dick.[/quote']

 

Even BV's most ardent critics admit that he is a superb tactician and in-game strategist. In short, he knows his stuff.

[yeszir]

the conspiracy theories in this place

[Elktonnick]

the conspiracy theories in this place

 

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

[mvp 78]

They brought BV infor commercials and to be a showman. It was all about marketability. Unfortunately, the public doesn't give a s*** about an interim manager. Thinking thathe was brought in to deflect criticism is giving LL too much credit.

[RedSoxNC84]

I have a feeling this thread is going to be active until Valentine leaves Boston.

[a700hitter]

He's not the issue, but we will talk about him anyway.

[ORS]

This Bobby V discussion IMO is exactly what the FO wanted when they hired him. He's a good baseball guy and a great teacher' date=' but he is a lightning rod and an attention whore. I really think they wanted everyone talking about Bobby and debating his ego and lack of tact and clubhouse mini- dramas. This distracts from the fact that the owners and GM didn't lift a finger to improve this team in the off season, and now after the closer and Ellsbury have gone down still nothing is getting done. Almost no one is discussing whether the Sox should be looking to reinforce the squad. Instead, everyone is discussing whether Youk got his feelings hurt and whether or not the players like Bobby V. It's the distraction that the owners wanted. It hasn't distracted me. I pretty much couldn't care less what any manger says about anything. I would like some reinforcements for the pitching and on the bench. Nates Spears? Are you kidding me?[/quote']

Does the tinfoil irritate your scalp?

[a700hitter]

Does the tinfoil irritate your scalp?

Seriously, Bobby V has a track record. He did this stuff in NY. They didn't know that he was bringing controversy with him? They are dumber than I thought if this is catching them by surprise. They are also dumber than I thought if they couldn't foresee that a few key injuries could really send this team into a tailspin. I may be wearing a tinfoil hat, but by wearing it, I was giving the FO an excuse for this chaos with Valentine. I assumed they expected it and on some level wanted it. Without the tinfoil hat theory, I am left with the inescapable conclusion that the FO is a bumbling bunch of fools, because they should have seen it coming.

[Taliesin]

The players need to grow a pair. Youk looks like he's getting effed in the ass by Giselle half the time. Ted Williams fought in two world wars and he didn't looked as stressed. I'm thrilled they don't have Terry giving them BJ's every minute...that's why they ended up with the culture that ended last season. Haven't won one playoff game since 2008..don't care if they send them to Attica getting it up the ....STFU and win a game. For once. Oh no..I have a boo boo. Really. These players are ridiculous. Boring. And, impossible to get behind. 120 bucks to watch Ryan Sweeney while the Albino is cheering on his crappy Liverpool Soccer team. Sweet Caroline...good chumps never seemed so good..

[mvp 78]

Ted Williams fought in two world wars..

 

No he didn't.

[Elktonnick]

No he didn't.

 

Ok one and a "police action"

[ORS]

Seriously' date=' Bobby V has a track record. He did this stuff in NY. They didn't know that he was bringing controversy with him? They are dumber than I thought if this is catching them by surprise. They are also dumber than I thought if they couldn't foresee that a few key injuries could really send this team into a tailspin. I may be wearing a tinfoil hat, but by wearing it, I was giving the FO an excuse for this chaos with Valentine. I assumed they expected it and on some level wanted it. Without the tinfoil hat theory, I am left with the inescapable conclusion that the FO is a bumbling bunch of fools, because they should have seen it coming.[/quote']

Oh, I don't think they didn't recognize the potential for this to happen. In fact I'd even agree and say they were hoping for a touch of this behavior. The big knocks on Francona were not a good game manager and lax on clubhouse culture. BV is like the polar opposite. I've always thought his hiring was a PR move, from an organization that is completely inept in this department, to address these issues. Lipstick on pig if you will.

 

And, the pig is still a pig. BV didn't take any attention away from the FO prior to the season starting. The complaints and criticisms, and not just here, were numerous and loud. The only part of your theory where he has shielded them from any attention is this recent episode, where you are right, the conversation is about irrelevant stuff and not about fixing the team. Of course, fixing the team has a lot to do with the early season injuries, which all happened after BV's hiring.

 

And, I don't give them credit to have anticipated the injuries they have to deal with, not with their history in that department, unless they actually caused them. Now how's that for a conspiracy?

[a700hitter]

Oh, I don't think they didn't recognize the potential for this to happen. In fact I'd even agree and say they were hoping for a touch of this behavior. The big knocks on Francona were not a good game manager and lax on clubhouse culture. BV is like the polar opposite. I've always thought his hiring was a PR move, from an organization that is completely inept in this department, to address these issues. Lipstick on pig if you will.

 

And, the pig is still a pig. BV didn't take any attention away from the FO prior to the season starting. The complaints and criticisms, and not just here, were numerous and loud. The only part of your theory where he has shielded them from any attention is this recent episode, where you are right, the conversation is about irrelevant stuff and not about fixing the team. Of course, fixing the team has a lot to do with the early season injuries, which all happened after BV's hiring.

 

And, I don't give them credit to have anticipated the injuries they have to deal with, not with their history in that department, unless they actually caused them. Now how's that for a conspiracy?

I have some spare tinfoil if you would like it, but seriously you have made the point better than I did. When Bailey went down, many people said that we should wait to see how the pen shakes out before they make any moves. It's shaking out right to the bottom. What's a reasonable time line for them to act, and do you think they know enough already to address the issue appropriately?

[SoxSport]

All this stuff aside, I think the Red Sox have a management problem. It's not Vs managing in the dugout, it's what he is saying to the media--which is looking for negative stuff to print. Well, Bobby certainly is looking like a good customer.

 

Aside from that, we have a newbie GM who thinks he's Theo Epstein. He's made a couple of trades for pitchers which looked good on paper--but which now don't look so good. He wanted all the young upstarts to sit in Pawtucket for another year, while a lot of journeyman type players stayed on the roster. So far, seems like he's got what he wanted. Maybe LLs efforts to balance the books after yanking the management search rug out from under him. Another example of mismanagement and media over-exposure.

 

You know, the Red Sox just aren't that important. The organization should just clam up and shut up.

They have become fodder for the Globe and the rest of those media outlets that clamor for controversy.

Henry needs to lower the profile of his team--to about the level encouraged by the Patriots. That means the players as well as the GM and the manager should just shut up and do their jobs.

[mvp 78]

Ok one and a "police action"

 

Two wars - sure.

Two world wars - no.

[Elktonnick]

Two wars - sure.

Two world wars - no.

 

that's still more than the current wimps and crybabies that play for today's red sox.