Quick Poll-- Will Bobby Valentine be Named Red Sox Manager?

[SoxFanForsyth]

That's a fantastic, insightful article. Props to Pete Abe. And thanks for posting, VA!

[VA Sox Fan]

That's a fantastic' date=' insightful article. Props to Pete Abe. And thanks for posting, VA![/quote']

 

You're welcome. I got a lot out of it too.

[a700hitter]

You're welcome. I got a lot out of it too.

I already knew everything in the article.

[VA Sox Fan]

I already knew everything in the article.

 

I only knew the part about how he and the team worked around the clock after 9/11 and that he and Steve Phillips didn't get along, but the rest was all knew to me. Feel better about him.

[a700hitter]

I only knew the part about how he and the team worked around the clock after 9/11 and that he and Steve Phillips didn't get along' date=' but the rest was all knew to me. Feel better about him. [/quote']He's a great baseball man and teacher, but factions in the clubhouse will form more quickly with Valentine as the manager than for most other managers. He's a bit of a know it all, but I like him because he really does know the game very well.

[User Name]

No one likes a know-it-all. If hired, Valentine may wear his welcome out in Boston quicker than people assume he will.

[Cask N Flagon 76]

No one likes a know-it-all. If hired' date=' Valentine may wear his welcome out in Boston quicker than people assume he will.[/quote']

 

 

He can wear out his welcome as long as he delivers the fanbase another title lol. Listen

Valentine always had a mystique to him and then like a flash of lightning the players,

the FO, the fans all hate him. I have accepted that he will probably be the next manager

and i'm fine with that as long as he brings the title home.

[User Name]

He's never won a series in MLB though.

[Cask N Flagon 76]

He's never won a series in MLB though.

 

 

That's true but in a crazy way he would provide a spark if you want to even call it

that. Valentine is not a horrible manager but he always seemed on the cusp on elite

but never quite got over the hump aka the METS lol.

[a700hitter]

He can wear out his welcome as long as he delivers the fanbase another title lol. Listen

Valentine always had a mystique to him and then like a flash of lightning the players,

the FO, the fans all hate him. I have accepted that he will probably be the next manager

and i'm fine with that as long as he brings the title home.

Mets fans were disappointed that he was fired. They hated Steve Phillips the GM.

[jung]

Somebody that was following the Mets closer than I was in those years might be able to answer this.

 

I am trying to remember but I think the Mets were making a serious run at the time and had brought in players looking to fill holes in consecutive years up to the year the Mets sort of folded up (the 2002 season) and Valentine was let go. Would it be fair to say that the team Valentine was managing underwent considerable personnel change up to and including that last year leaving Valentine with some new guys in his clubhouse, guys that were not responsive to Valentine?

or:

Would that be an overstatement?

 

I am asking because while I seem to remember a good deal of change to that team during that time, I really don't trust my memory of it and I could be totally wrong.

[Cask N Flagon 76]

Mets fans were disappointed that he was fired. They hated Steve Phillips the GM.

 

Philips was a bum plain and simple i cannot tell you how many bad FA'S he signed

over the years here it was pathetic.

[a700hitter]

Philips was a bum plain and simple i cannot tell you how many bad FA'S he signed

over the years here it was pathetic.

More bad FA signings than Theo?

[Cask N Flagon 76]

More bad FA signings than Theo?

 

 

 

Absolutely and then some. The only good thing he did was bring in Piazza.

[redsoxbeatz]

Does anyone else wonder how the interview(s) go? Must be intense.

[a700hitter]

.. and the vote is no longer unanimous. Who voted "no"? What do you suspect will be the outcome of the manager search?

[wyo-sox]

If it looked bad Sveum ended up in Chicago, I think it will look even worse if they do not hire Valentine at this point. At some point players, managers and coaches will feel like things are to much of a mess I Boston to want to come or stay there.

[SoxSport]

Yeah, they have to hire Bobby, or it would be another excuse for the Sox to be media fodder.

 

It bothers me a little that Cherington and Valentine are personality opposites. Ben looks more reserved and introverted. Bobby is the extrovert--free with his opinions. Is this a problem? Probably not, since Lucchino is probably more like Bobby than Ben, and is a good friend. Ben will probably be on the hot seat more than Bobby, since Ben is a newbie at the GM job. Besides, Bobby is a closet Saber guy, a disciple of James when Ben was in school. They will not be far apart on stats, but Ben has to stay out of the dugout.

 

The mystery to me is why they waited so long and had all those other interviews. Looks to me like the bosses gave Ben a bit too much rope.

[wyo-sox]

And for me I don't even have a problem with how much rope BC is on. I think ownership can run things with the GM having total control, or with the GM ad a puppet on a short leash. Either one can probably be done successfully. What bothers me is the appearance that they were not on the same page and undecided as to what model they are going to use.

[Elktonnick]

And for me I don't even have a problem with how much rope BC is on. I think ownership can run things with the GM having total control' date=' or with the GM ad a puppet on a short leash. Either one can probably be done successfully. What bothers me is the appearance that they were not on the same page and undecided as to what model they are going to use.[/quote']

 

One of the problems with Ben being reduced to figurehead status is his ability to negotiate with his peers. Let face it The main job of a GM is to make deals. He is hamstrung. That's why the Big 3 are trying to rehabilitate his image.

[wyo-sox]

One of the problems with Ben being reduced to figurehead status is his ability to negotiate with his peers. Let face it The main job of a GM is to make deals. He is hamstrung. That's why the Big 3 are trying to rehabilitate his image.

 

True

[SoxSport]

And for me I don't even have a problem with how much rope BC is on. I think ownership can run things with the GM having total control' date=' or with the GM ad a puppet on a short leash. Either one can probably be done successfully. [b']What bothers me is the appearance that they were not on the same page and undecided as to what model they are going to use.[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

Exactly. Sloppy handling of all this by Lucchino and Henry. I think the problem is they were trying to do too much too quickly. New GM, new manager.

 

I think the conflict is over how much influence the GM has in the dugout. Epstein had a lot.

Cherington will not have a lot if Valentine is manager. That should have been spelled out earlier by Lucchino. It isn't a question of saber--Valentine is a saber-type manager, to a point. But he runs the dugout and the clubhouse.

[FredLynn]

One of the problems with Ben being reduced to figurehead status is his ability to negotiate with his peers. Let face it The main job of a GM is to make deals. He is hamstrung. That's why the Big 3 are trying to rehabilitate his image.

 

He hasn't been "reduced" to a figurehead; he was ALWAYS a figurehead. He is a charter member of the "I do what I am told to do" club.

Francona was President.

[Elktonnick]

He hasn't been "reduced" to a figurehead; he was ALWAYS a figurehead. He is a charter member of the "I do what I am told to do" club.

Francona was President.

 

If he were, it is only because Epstein and Carmine gave their okay.

[Elktonnick]

Steve Phillips recommends Valentine for Red Sox job. You can knock me over with a feather.

[seabeachfred]

And for me I don't even have a problem with how much rope BC is on. I think ownership can run things with the GM having total control' date=' or with the GM ad a puppet on a short leash. Either one can probably be done successfully. [b']What bothers me is the appearance that they were not on the same page and undecided as to what model they are going to use.[/[/b]QUOTE]

 

Exactly. Sloppy handling of all this by Lucchino and Henry. I think the problem is they were trying to do too much too quickly. New GM, new manager.

 

I think the conflict is over how much influence the GM has in the dugout. Epstein had a lot.

Cherington will not have a lot if Valentine is manager. That should have been spelled out earlier by Lucchino. It isn't a question of saber--Valentine is a saber-type manager, to a point. But he runs the dugout and the clubhouse.

 

There is nothing wrong by being a saber manager UP TO A POINT. The problem is when it becomes an end all as it was with Epstein and his errand boy Francona. The fact that Theo met with Terry every damn day gave the impression, recently confirmed, that he had imput into the starting lineup and who should play. That will never happen with Valentine in control, and it shouldn't. The GM should stay in his office and out of the dugout. I think they can work together if they maintain their roles and know their places. First of all they have to stop the nonsense and give Bobby the job, and then, second, try to restore some of the prestige that Cherington lost when it became evident that he was little more than a glorified office boy. Thirdly, Cherington might start trying to overcome his proclivity to procrastinate and start getting some things done. If he is the GM he should at least try to take some intitiative. If he is thwarted in that endeavor he then should have the guts enough to resign.

 

It would be nice if we all go to Thanksgiving Day Thursday knowing that the day before (tomorrow) Valentine has been given the manager's job and this charade has finally ended.

[seabeachfred]

If he were' date=' it is only because Epstein and Carmine gave their okay.[/quote']

 

Elk and Pumpsie, it is still sickening to recount just what a flunky Francona turned out to be as he was led around by the nose by Epstein. I guess Lucchino and Henry don't want a repeat of that but they are going about it by trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. Cherington needs to have some power; he has been reduced as a GM to what Francona was as a manager. How the hell is Ben going to be able to deal with other GM's in trade talks or parley with agents of players who are open to signing when he is perceived as nothing more than a copy boy? I never thought I'd say this about my team but it looks to me that dysfunctional might actually be a complimentary word when assigned to these clowns in the front office. Keep our fingers crossed that something changes that pronto.

[a700hitter]

So it was Epstein who was responsible for those horrendously stupid lineups down the stretch, e.g. DMac batting 5th behind Ortiz. Tito, you have my apologies.

[VA Sox Fan]

No one likes a know-it-all. If hired' date=' Valentine may wear his welcome out in Boston quicker than people assume he will.[/quote']

 

That is very true.

[User Name]

 

There is nothing wrong by being a saber manager UP TO A POINT. The problem is when it becomes an end all as it was with Epstein and his errand boy Francona. The fact that Theo met with Terry every damn day gave the impression, recently confirmed, that he had imput into the starting lineup and who should play. That will never happen with Valentine in control, and it shouldn't. The GM should stay in his office and out of the dugout. I think they can work together if they maintain their roles and know their places. First of all they have to stop the nonsense and give Bobby the job, and then, second, try to restore some of the prestige that Cherington lost when it became evident that he was little more than a glorified office boy. Thirdly, Cherington might start trying to overcome his proclivity to procrastinate and start getting some things done. If he is the GM he should at least try to take some intitiative. If he is thwarted in that endeavor he then should have the guts enough to resign.

 

It would be nice if we all go to Thanksgiving Day Thursday knowing that the day before (tomorrow) Valentine has been given the manager's job and this charade has finally ended.

 

Confirmed by who, or what? This is all conjecture.