Quick Poll-- Will Bobby Valentine be Named Red Sox Manager?

[mvp 78]

IF it was Larry's team from the beginning' date=' do you think we would have experienced a meltdown in September? I think the man has more pride than that.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I think LL/Theo/Tito had nothing to do with the meltdown. Was LL going to go out and pitch a CG? It was on the players.

[Gringo]

It's always been his since the new ownership came in.

 

Post-Gorilla suit, he relinquished some of his power to Theo. Now that Theo is gone, it's Larry Time again.

[Elktonnick]

Yeah' date=' I think LL/Theo/Tito had nothing to do with the meltdown. Was LL going to go out and pitch a CG? It was on the players.[/quote']

 

I have to disagree. Leadership (LL/Theo/Tito both individually and collectively created the climate, the sense of entitlement and the lack of desire to win that caused the collapse.

[iortiz]

I have to disagree. Leadership (LL/Theo/Tito both individually and collectively created the climate' date=' the sense of entitlement and the lack of desire to win that caused the collapse.[/quote']

 

This is true.

 

Sure, the players perform, but even with a constellation of stars, if you don't have discipline and leadership, you are prone to fail; there are plenty of examples in professional sport teams.

[mvp 78]

I have to disagree. Leadership (LL/Theo/Tito both individually and collectively created the climate' date=' the sense of entitlement and the lack of desire to win that caused the collapse.[/quote']

 

Entitlement comes from giving a stiff $16M to suck at his job. When you make more than the GM, manager and AGM (actual GM = LL), what's the incentive to listen to someone else. In essence, you are your own boss. No amount of rahrahing or yelling will get you to perform better at that point. A coach can't change a man's character.

[a700hitter]

I have to disagree. Leadership (LL/Theo/Tito both individually and collectively created the climate' date=' the sense of entitlement and the lack of desire to win that caused the collapse.[/quote']I'm not disagreeing, but 2011 is over. We don't need to discuss the reasons for the collapse, because the GM, manager, and much of the FO is gone. There will be a fresh start throughout the organization. Now, they need to address the roster. Letting Papelbon walk was a bad start.

[Elktonnick]

Entitlement comes from giving a stiff $16M to suck at his job. When you make more than the GM' date=' manager and AGM (actual GM = LL), what's the incentive to listen to someone else. In essence, you are your own boss. No amount of rahrahing or yelling will get you to perform better at that point. A coach can't change a man's character.[/quote']

 

I agree character counts. This is why I especially don't think much of Lackey and Beckett. The latter is a punk. The former is an immature jerk. Nevertheless, there are ways to keep these guys in line. Management isn't totally powerless if they have the will. Last year the sox FO didn't have the wil.

[FredLynn]

I agree character counts. This is why I especially don't think much of Lackey and Beckett. The latter is a punk. The former is an immature jerk. Nevertheless' date=' there are ways to keep these guys in line. Management isn't totally powerless if they have the will. Last year the sox FO didn't have the wil.[/quote']

 

Valentine will make their lives miserable if he is chosen to be manager and they continue to behave badly. He will not cover for them like Francona did; he will expose them to the media who, in Boston, are vicious at times when they smell raw meat. They will either tow the party line or be roasted for six months of the year.

[mvp 78]

Valentine will make their lives miserable if he is chosen to be manager and they continue to behave badly. He will not cover for them like Francona did; he will expose them to the media who' date=' in Boston, are vicious at times when they smell raw meat. They will either tow the party line or be roasted for six months of the year.[/quote']

 

And that's a recipe for success? The results would be even worse than last year. Expose them to the media? Really? That's laughable at best.

[iortiz]

IMO this is not a matter of who is making more or less money but to execute properly predefined policies of conduct and discipline plus professionalism in both sides players and FO.

[YAZMAN]

I agree character counts. This is why I especially don't think much of Lackey and Beckett. The latter is a punk. The former is an immature jerk. Nevertheless' date=' there are ways to keep these guys in line. Management isn't totally powerless if they have the will. Last year the sox FO didn't have the wil.[/quote']

 

Valentine and Beckett will butt heads big time, count on it.

[FredLynn]

And that's a recipe for success? The results would be even worse than last year. Expose them to the media? Really? That's laughable at best.

 

Is it more laughable than them playing video games and drinking beer during games last year? I look forward to a strict disciplinarian who will not cover up for that kind of ********.

[FredLynn]

Valentine and Beckett will butt heads big time' date=' count on it.[/quote']

 

If this happens, Beckett will be traded. There is NO ONE on this team who should feel free to be as unprofessional as some of the overpaid spoiled goons did last year. We need someone who will put them in their place. Those who cannot comply can pack their bags. No, this is not a recipe for success in 2012. There is no such recipe. This is the year we clean up our act and get rid of the misfits, as we got rid of Francona and Epstein. Perhaps when the house is cleaned and restocked with professionals we can be a relevant force again.

[Elktonnick]

If this happens' date=' Beckett will be traded. There is NO ONE on this team who should feel free to be as unprofessional as some of the overpaid spoiled goons did last year. We need someone who will put them in their place. Those who cannot comply can pack their bags. No, this is not a recipe for success in 2012. There is no such recipe. This is the year we clean up our act and get rid of the misfits, as we got rid of Francona and Epstein. Perhaps when the house is cleaned and restocked with professionals we can be a relevant force again.[/quote']

 

Amen to that. There are a fair number of fans myself included who would like to see them move Beckett now for the right deal. Beckett hasn't had two good years in a row. Unless he has a major attitude adjestment, I'd be surprised if wins more than 12 games or pitches more than 140 innings.

[a700hitter]

Amen to that. There are a fair number of fans myself included who would like to see them move Beckett now for the right deal. Beckett hasn't had two good years in a row. Unless he has a major attitude adjestment' date=' I'd be surprised if wins more than 12 games or pitches more than 140 innings.[/quote']

I don't want to see Beckett traded. Good pitching is the hardest commodity to find, and Beckett (bad attitude and all) is a very good pitcher. I don't believe in fixing the team by getting rid of the good things. Losing Beckett and Papelbon in the same off season could result in a 4th place finish. You can sig that if you want. We'd be fighting with the Blue jays for 3rd place.

[FredLynn]

I don't want to see Beckett traded. Good pitching is the hardest commodity to find' date=' and Beckett (bad attitude and all) is a very good pitcher. I don't believe in fixing the team by getting rid of the good things. Losing Beckett and Papelbon in the same off season could result in a 4th place finish. You can sig that if you want. We'd be fighting with the Blue jays for 3rd place.[/quote']

 

I don't have any problem keeping Beckett-if he can adjust his punk attitude. This team can no longer afford to keep players who do not fall in line. He was one of the guys named who headed off to the clubhouse for a frosty during games last year.

[a700hitter]

I don't have any problem keeping Beckett-if he can adjust his punk attitude. This team can no longer afford to keep players who do not fall in line. He was one of the guys named who headed off to the clubhouse for a frosty during games last year.

Attitudes can be adjusted, but you either have talent or you don't. Beckett has talent.

[Elktonnick]

Attitudes can be adjusted' date=' but you either have talent or you don't. Beckett has talent.[/quote']

 

Attitude and talent aside, Beckett is unlikely to have two good years in a row. I think they would move if they could find the right deal. That is the question finding the right deal.

[seabeachfred]

I'm not disagreeing' date=' but 2011 is over. We don't need to discuss the reasons for the collapse, because the GM, manager, and much of the FO is gone. There will be a fresh start throughout the organization. Now, they need to address the roster. Letting Papelbon walk was a bad start.[/quote']

 

The problem 700 is that the 2011 season may not be over.....we could be seeing the roots of another such season unfolding right before our eyes. Oh yes, Epstein is gone, and so is Francona, but there is a good chance that Lily Livered Gene Lamont will be appointed as manager and not Valentine. That would be just like nothing has changed be cause the lame Lamont is a carbon copy of that putrid manager we finally were able to finally rid ourselves of. As for Cherington, what we seem to have here is a patsy and procrastinator who has trouble deciding which shoe he should tie first in the morning. And, please, let's not forget Carmine the computer and those geeks in the front office, none of whom who have any baseall experience on the field, feeding these spread sheet and computer printouts to Lucchino who is only too happy to take them, accept them and act on them because it gives him added power to run the show. All he needs is another errand boy to match the overmatched Cherington and with Lamont he would have his other patsy. With that you can kiss off 2012 for all intents and purposes.

 

Tomorrow or Tuesday the real change must take place and that can only mean that Valentine is made manager while the front office accepts an inconvenient truth that what they;ve been doing the last three years has been on dismal failure and a new innovative method must be tried. We shall see.

[jung]

Frankly I don't like either guy but that is just me.

 

I don't think Bobby V wowed them in the interviews like they thought he would and it really does make me wonder what that is all about. The fact that these two guys are the finalists is weird. These guys are not just a shade off of each other. Maybe they share being experienced and that is about it.

[a700hitter]

The problem 700 is that the 2011 season may not be over.....we could be seeing the roots of another such season unfolding right before our eyes. Oh yes, Epstein is gone, and so is Francona, but there is a good chance that Lily Livered Gene Lamont will be appointed as manager and not Valentine. That would be just like nothing has changed be cause the lame Lamont is a carbon copy of that putrid manager we finally were able to finally rid ourselves of. As for Cherington, what we seem to have here is a patsy and procrastinator who has trouble deciding which shoe he should tie first in the morning. And, please, let's not forget Carmine the computer and those geeks in the front office, none of whom who have any baseall experience on the field, feeding these spread sheet and computer printouts to Lucchino who is only too happy to take them, accept them and act on them because it gives him added power to run the show. All he needs is another errand boy to match the overmatched Cherington and with Lamont he would have his other patsy. With that you can kiss off 2012 for all intents and purposes.

 

Tomorrow or Tuesday the real change must take place and that can only mean that Valentine is made manager while the front office accepts an inconvenient truth that what they;ve been doing the last three years has been on dismal failure and a new innovative method must be tried. We shall see.

Yes they are on a path for a repeat right now. Hopefully, there will be a change of course.

[SoxSport]

Frankly I don't like either guy but that is just me.

 

I don't think Bobby V wowed them in the interviews like they thought he would and it really does make me wonder what that is all about. The fact that these two guys are the finalists is weird. These guys are not just a shade off of each other. Maybe they share being experienced and that is about it.

 

We don't have a clue about the content of those interviews or how they went. Besides, a guy like Valentine probably has more ML experience than any of those guys interviewing him. He probably knows a lot more than they do.

 

The key word about both Valentine and Lamont is ML managing experience. Valentine obviously has a better record--and more experience managing. He looks like the better candidate. Maybe not for the FO, but for the Red Sox. But then the FO could use some brakes, given the free agent signings the past couple of years.