2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

Another day and no pitching acquisition and nothing else. Yesterday, we signed some kangaroo from the outback. Whoopee!! He'll be playing softball in a couple of years with the other guy we signed last year from down under. Have a good night. See ya tomorrow for more of the same. We're within days of camp opening for pitchers and catchers-- less than a week.

 

BTW: I saw a picture of Youk. He doesn't look trimmed down very much.

 

And some wonder why a few of us roll our eyes at what has been going on with our team. Did you read the blurb where Henry spent $169 million dollars on his soccer team the last few months and about $20 mil on the Sox? We could call that misplaced priorities but would be shouted down as defeatists and troublemakers if we did. Now we have to worry about Varitek and Wakefield showing up. That would be the creme de la crem (sic) of this whole disappointing off season.

[seabeachfred]

So, because he wants to play baseball this year, wants to play for the RedSox, and wants to achieve the Redsox all time wins record as a pitcher.......and because hes been a member of this franchise for 18 years and understands the legacy and the importance of the record.....all of that makes him:

 

an *******

greedy

disgusting

a piece of s***

selfish

a jerk

 

The guy made one stupid remark about the wins record and now he is crucified for it?

 

Apparently you dont know about these:

His peronal charity:

http://www.timwakefieldcharityevent.com/

Another Charity he is involved with:

http://www.pitchinginforkids.org/

Winning the Roberto Clemente award, for MOST CHARITABLE MLB PLAYER:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101028&content_id=15875490&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

 

What a piece of s*** huh? Idiot.

 

Wakefield's charitable work is a testimonial to his humanitarianism and he deserves full credit for that, but we were talking about his pitching Chin and on that score you can't be serious in wanting him back on the Red Sox. By the middle of last season his knuckler wasn't knuckling and he had become a human pinata on the mound. They were pounding the living s*** out of his tosses, and besides, he is going to be 46 years old and we have some younger pitchers who deserve a chance to show what, if any, they have.

 

I'm sure Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez and other Yankees did admirable things off the field but that didn't stop the Yankees from showing them the door when their time was up. The Red Sox have to start showing the same determination to move on. Besides, if Wakefield was so damn good don't you think some ot her team would have made him an offer by now? They haven't and that says it all.

 

Thanks for the memories Tim but it is time to move on.

[seabeachfred]

The only thing I'm wondering is what size your tin foil hat is?

 

I don't know Dutch; you took the label off before you gave it to me and I now use it scoop up my dog's poo. Another Wakefielderian is heard from. Tell me from across the ocean why this has-been deserves another season witht he team. The guy was horse manure from June on last season and was sent out there again and again to the detriment of the team so he could get his damn record. When you put someone's personal goals ahead of the team mediocrity is as sure as a winter cold. Maybe it's different in the land of windmills but over here sometimes a little ruthlessness goes a long w ay, but I would love to hear why you think Wakefield is deserving of another shot on the team when he didn't receive one damn offer from any o ther team. I await your reply from across the ocean.

[a700hitter]

Wakefield's charitable work is a testimonial to his humanitarianism and he deserves full credit for that, but we were talking about his pitching Chin and on that score you can't be serious in wanting him back on the Red Sox. By the middle of last season his knuckler wasn't knuckling and he had become a human pinata on the mound. They were pounding the living s*** out of his tosses, and besides, he is going to be 46 years old and we have some younger pitchers who deserve a chance to show what, if any, they have.

 

I'm sure Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Scott Brosius, Tino Martinez and other Yankees did admirable things off the field but that didn't stop the Yankees from showing them the door when their time was up. The Red Sox have to start showing the same determination to move on. Besides, if Wakefield was so damn good don't you think some ot her team would have made him an offer by now? They haven't and that says it all.

 

Thanks for the memories Tim but it is time to move on.

It's not so much that his knuckler doesn't knuckle. His real problem is directly attributable to his age. Either due to back trouble or aging legs, he can't get his pitches down with any consistency. Even a dancing knuckler might as well be sitting on a tee if is thrown above the belt.

[seabeachfred]

Hopefully Wake will pick up a bad case of career ending nail fungus so we are spared more forfeit games by sending him to the hill. Enough already. Unlike others' date=' I don't blame Wake for wanting to play. Being an MLB player is an incredible lifestyle, and once it's over there is no going back. Most players have to have the uniform torn from their backs. It's up to Ben to tear off his uniform. When it happens, hopefully, Wakefield will handle it with dignity. Not everyone does. I remember a crippled one-legged empty shell Bill Buckner launching into a tirade after the Sox cut him after a second tour of duty with the team. He was brought back as a way of mending fences even though his tank was empty. He hit .150 or something like that and he was released. He bitterly told the press that the Sox would regret that. He never played MLB again. He left in a very undignified manner.[/quote']

 

Bingo again 700!!!! You hear it from players all the time. To wit, I'LL BE THE FIRST TO KNOW WHEN I NO LONGER HAVE IT, which is the biggest ******** verbiage of them all. They are the last ones to hear it and often they have to have the uniform ripped off of them as in the case of Wakefield right now. The problem is that Cherington has showed himself to be a cream puff and most likely doesn't have the balls to tell Tim to hit the road. Then again, someone could be pulling his strings from higher up. The Red Sox just don't seem to be able to tell one of their so-called sacred cows GOODBYE!!!!!!

[User Name]

No, I'm not. I am saying that if the sox top 3 can stay healthy with Bard and Aceves as the 4 and 5, then the pen will improve. I am also saying that with Paps in Philly, and Aceves and Bard in the rotation, the pen is weaker, even with the additions of Melancon and Bailey.

 

Also, I was looking from a MLB standpoint. The sox were 13th in the MLB in pen ERA, which is middle of the pack.

 

And the WAR argument for pen guys is a little skewed because the goal of the pen is not to throw a ton of innings, as it is with starters. And it is weighted by IP substantially. And the sox threw the second most innings in the AL to Baltimore, so their WAR should be high

 

That's why people use the league in most arguments. The NL, with weaker offenses and more spacious ballparks in general, always has several teams near the top of the BP chain, specially and the NL West, and it is inconsequential to the discussion. The Sox BP was one of the best in the AL last year, which is a stronger league than the NL, and the point can't be contended.

 

Also, if Aceves returns to the BP (likely) and the rotation gives them more innings (you mentioned Lackey but forgot the rest of the 5-innings and less crew conveniently) the BP has a chance for an overall similar performance, at least.

[FredLynn]

Good post. :thumbsup:

 

Good post that totally misses the point. All of the names we are giving Wakefield relate EXCLUSIVELY to his performance on the field. He IS selfish. He once said that the fans here "deserve" to see him go for the record number of wins by a Sox pitcher. Screw the team, if necessary, but he is going for that personal mark, come hell or high water. And how many times did he trot out there trying to win #200 instead of telling the manager that enough is enough for the benefit of THE TEAM? Was it 10 times?

Wakefield could be Jesus Christ himself when he is in street clothes, but his selfish incompetent performance on the field dictates that his time is long long past.

[a700hitter]

Orioles To Sign Luis Ayala

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 10 at 11:12am CST]

 

The Orioles have agreed to sign Luis Ayala, Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com reports (Twitter links). The deal is pending a physical. It's expected to be a Major League deal, which means the Orioles will have to create 40-man roster space to make the deal official

[FredLynn]

Careful guys' date=' we're dealing with a badass over here.[/quote']

 

Calling anyone here an idiot without justification is not appropriate for this or any forum, unless you are attacked first. Muggah is totally within his rights to ask that such nonsense stop.

[FredLynn]

Seriously? You can lable players or anyone having anything to do with the Sox pretty much anything you like, but someone calls you a clown and you get all butt-hurt? Wipe the sand from your vagina(no disrespect female memebers ) and grow a set

 

C'mon man...

 

Players are public figures, like politicians. It comes with the territory that they get called names. Public figures understand that.

Calling other posters names is in a totally different category. Thats personal, and its behavior that doesn't belong here.

So "wipe the sand from YOUR &^&%^ (I won't repeat the sexist comment you made)" and wake the f up.

[a700hitter]

Seriously? You can lable players or anyone having anything to do with the Sox pretty much anything you like, but someone calls you a clown and you get all butt-hurt? Wipe the sand from your vagina(no disrespect female memebers ) and grow a set

 

C'mon man...

Seriously, it doesn't give you the right to get personal with posters. Otherwise, this place will degenerate into a free for all.

[SCM33]

Good post that totally misses the point. All of the names we are giving Wakefield relate EXCLUSIVELY to his performance on the field. He IS selfish. He once said that the fans here "deserve" to see him go for the record number of wins by a Sox pitcher. Screw the team, if necessary, but he is going for that personal mark, come hell or high water. And how many times did he trot out there trying to win #200 instead of telling the manager that enough is enough for the benefit of THE TEAM? Was it 10 times?

Wakefield could be Jesus Christ himself when he is in street clothes, but his selfish incompetent performance on the field dictates that his time is long long past.

So you also think he is "disgusting", a "piece of s***" and an "*******" as well? You are blaming Wakefield for Tito sending him out there? You are blaming Wakefield for the RedSox incompetence and not putting a better product on the field? Since when was that Wakefield's problem? If Wakefield wants to pitch, and the Redsox are stupid enough to offer a contract, thats on the Redsox, not Wakefield.

 

Calling anyone here an idiot without justification is not appropriate for this or any forum' date=' unless you are attacked first. Muggah is totally within his rights to ask that such nonsense stop.[/quote']

There was justification. I am critical of the team as well, but you sawxhead guys are friggin brutal, no wonder those guys over there hate you guys and drove you out.

 

Players are public figures, like politicians. It comes with the territory that they get called names. Public figures understand that.

Calling other posters names is in a totally different category. Thats personal, and its behavior that doesn't belong here.

So "wipe the sand from YOUR &^&%^ (I won't repeat the sexist comment you made)" and wake the f up.

Its personal? I dont know you, you dont know me. Its a forum. Its the internet. Its computers. Nothing personal about it.

[FredLynn]

So you also think he is "disgusting", a "piece of s***" and an "*******" as well? You are blaming Wakefield for Tito sending him out there? You are blaming Wakefield for the RedSox incompetence and not putting a better product on the field? Since when was that Wakefield's problem? If Wakefield wants to pitch, and the Redsox are stupid enough to offer a contract, thats on the Redsox, not Wakefield.

 

I think his PERFORMANCE is a piece of s***, disgusting, selfish...and whatever other colorful names you want to ascribe to it. I don't know Tim Wakefield, so I assume that off the field he is a fine gentleman. He COULD have told Francona not to march his sorry ass out to the mound to start a game after failing to win #200 after five or six tries. That selfish quest contributed significantly to the Red Sox failing to make the playoffs last year.

 

There was justification. I am critical of the team as well, but you sawxhead guys are friggin brutal, no wonder those guys over there hate you guys and drove you out.

 

First of all, no one drove us out. ALL OF US are still posting over there, and we all get along just fine, as a general rule, "over there". Yes, some of us are brutal in our criticism at times here. But we do not call other posters here idiots without first being attacked PERSONALLY- yes, it is personal, and thats why its considered bad behavior in an internet forum. I was a moderator over there for a time, and I know that I had to ban people because of just this sort of thing. Call out the team however you like, within the boundaries of decency, but you do not have the right to attack other posters. Allowing that nonsense would turn this board into something very unpleasant, a "free for all", as 700 mentioned. Calling another poster an idiot is simply inappropriate.

[seabeachfred]

So you also think he is "disgusting", a "piece of s***" and an "*******" as well? You are blaming Wakefield for Tito sending him out there? You are blaming Wakefield for the RedSox incompetence and not putting a better product on the field? Since when was that Wakefield's problem? If Wakefield wants to pitch, and the Redsox are stupid enough to offer a contract, thats on the Redsox, not Wakefield.

 

 

There was justification. I am critical of the team as well, but you sawxhead guys are friggin brutal, no wonder those guys over there hate you guys and drove you out.

 

 

Its personal? I dont know you, you dont know me. Its a forum. Its the internet. Its computers. Nothing personal about it.

 

Let me clear something up for you as I did with user. No one on Sawxheads drove us out; we're still there posting away. What went down was that most of the ball washers, apologists, rumbswabs and their ilk couldn't face the music when our predictions all came out spot-on and rather than admit they were wrong decided to flee the scene and form their own staid and boring site. I would recommend it highly to any pollyanna currently posting here. It's good to bring on sleep.

 

Admittedly many of the Sawxhead group posting here can be pretty tough on players but I've read your missives and you're not exactly a goodie-two shoes yourself, and getting personal with public figures is par for the course---getting personal with fellow posters is low down and cowardly.

[Bellhorn04]

Admittedly many of the Sawxhead group posting here can be pretty tough on players but I've read your missives and you're not exactly a goodie-two shoes yourself' date=' and getting personal with public figures is par for the course---getting personal with fellow posters is low down and cowardly.[/quote']

 

Fred, in my opinion, sometimes there's not much difference between insulting players and insulting other posters. If other posters continue to object to it and you keep doing it anyway, it's like you're giving them the finger.

 

Think of it this way-you're sitting in Fenway and a fan next to you keeps yelling insults at Ellsbury, calling him the most vile names he can think of. You ask him to stop it because you like Ellsbury and it's really bothering and irritating you. He says 'buddy, I don't care if it bothers you' and keeps it up. You'd feel like taking a swing at the guy, wouldn't you?

 

I know that's a slight exaggeration of the situation on a message board, but I think it's worth thinking about anyway.

[a700hitter]

Fred, in my opinion, sometimes there's not much difference between insulting players and insulting other posters. If other posters continue to object to it and you keep doing it anyway, it's like you're giving them the finger.

 

Think of it this way-you're sitting in Fenway and a fan next to you keeps yelling insults at Ellsbury, calling him the most vile names he can think of. You ask him to stop it because you like Ellsbury and it's really bothering and irritating you. He says 'buddy, I don't care if it bothers you' and keeps it up. You'd feel like taking a swing at the guy, wouldn't you?

 

I know that's a slight exaggeration of the situation on a message board, but I think it's worth thinking about anyway.

I've been at Yankee Stadium many times when that kind of thing happened. All you can do is tell the guy that there are kids in the crowd. Other than that, if they call our guys bums. who cares. Some people don't like if you root for your team even if you are not bashing their team. There are a lot of hot heads out there. Just because something pisses people off doesn't mean they are right to be pissed off.

 

Edit: Anyone who fights with another person for yelling at players is a major jackass.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, in my opinion, sometimes there's not much difference between insulting players and insulting other posters. If other posters continue to object to it and you keep doing it anyway, it's like you're giving them the finger.

 

Think of it this way-you're sitting in Fenway and a fan next to you keeps yelling insults at Ellsbury, calling him the most vile names he can think of. You ask him to stop it because you like Ellsbury and it's really bothering and irritating you. He says 'buddy, I don't care if it bothers you' and keeps it up. You'd feel like taking a swing at the guy, wouldn't you?

 

I know that's a slight exaggeration of the situation on a message board, but I think it's worth thinking about anyway.

 

Bob, I like and respect you very much but this is more than a slight exaggeration; it is off the wall. First of all, this is a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinions. If a fellow poster doesn't like what someone writes, he can put him on ignore or just not read his posts. And there is a difference between insulting players and posters. Players are public figures and they know that having verbal brickbats hurled at you is part of being on display. Besides Wakefield or others either don't read these posts and most likely don't give a s*** what's said on here. Posters on the other hand are here and care very much what is said about them. No one should insult another poster unless that poster insults him and if you've read the posts on the different threads that's what usually happens. A poster insults a player and he gets insulted in turn by a poster who likes the player.

 

At the ballpark there is nothing I can do to stop a nasty Yankee fan from bombarding Ellsbury with insults since he paid his money for a ticket just as I did. I either take it or leave and try and find a place in the standing room section. Yes, I would want to belt him but I know better than to do that since I could be charged with assault and put in the slammer.

[FredLynn]

Fred, in my opinion, sometimes there's not much difference between insulting players and insulting other posters. If other posters continue to object to it and you keep doing it anyway, it's like you're giving them the finger.

 

Think of it this way-you're sitting in Fenway and a fan next to you keeps yelling insults at Ellsbury, calling him the most vile names he can think of. You ask him to stop it because you like Ellsbury and it's really bothering and irritating you. He says 'buddy, I don't care if it bothers you' and keeps it up. You'd feel like taking a swing at the guy, wouldn't you?

 

I know that's a slight exaggeration of the situation on a message board, but I think it's worth thinking about anyway.

 

Bob, this is your opinion. I respect it, but I don't agree with it. When you look at the public figures that are in the eye of our own country (not sure if you are following it from Nova Scotia), you see Newt Gingrich calling Mitt Romney a liar in the news. Its tradition to call underperforming players bums. All of that refers to their performance on the field ONLY. If you don't think calling players names here is appropriate, I think you should continue to refrain from doing it. But you do not have the right to impose that opinion on others here.

[User Name]

Jesus Christ.

[Emmz]

Calling anyone here an idiot without justification is not appropriate for this or any forum' date=' unless you are attacked first. Muggah is totally within his rights to ask that such nonsense stop.[/quote']

 

Well, Muggah's CONSTANTLY calling people "rumpswabs" and other pseudo-creative veils for ass-kisser. He's an insufferable pessimist (the kind who posts 30 facebook updates per day about how cruel life is) who everybody wishes had his posts deleted in their sad entirety from the history of the internet. You make exceptions for your buddies and act like your little group is a victim when in reality you've pretty much mocked and insulted every person you've ever disagreed with.

[FredLynn]

Well' date=' Muggah's CONSTANTLY calling people "rumpswabs" and other pseudo-creative veils for ass-kisser. He's an insufferable pessimist (the kind who posts 30 facebook updates per day about how cruel life is) who everybody wishes had his posts deleted in their sad entirety from the history of the internet. You make exceptions for your buddies and act like your little group is a victim when in reality you've pretty much mocked and insulted every person you've ever disagreed with.[/quote']

 

I reserve the personal insults to those who have insulted me first. If you disagree, show me where I initiated that kind of thing. Also, I do not call people who disagree with me "rumpswabs" or "ass kissers". Again, if you disagree, show me where I have intiated that. Fact is, I am not in favor of that stuff. I am not making exceptions for anyone. You get insulted here and you have IMO a right to respond if you choose.

So either show me where I have been inconsistent.........or shut up.

[FredLynn]

Jesus Christ.

 

He's not here.

[User Name]

He ran away because all of the ******** y'all are starting here.

[a700hitter]

ESPN.com's Jayson Stark says Roy Oswalt is not going to sign with the Rangers or Phillies. The right-hander could end up in Boston, where he doesn't seem to want to play, or with the Cardinals, who are interested if Oswalt agrees to their terms.

[Emmz]

I reserve the personal insults to those who have insulted me first. If you disagree, show me where I initiated that kind of thing. Also, I do not call people who disagree with me "rumpswabs" or "ass kissers". Again, if you disagree, show me where I have intiated that. Fact is, I am not in favor of that stuff. I am not making exceptions for anyone. You get insulted here and you have IMO a right to respond if you choose.

So either show me where I have been inconsistent.........or shut up.

 

Apparently you didn't read the post at all, where I specifically said "Muggah". Not that you're any better. I'm sure if I felt like it I could come up with several examples in your last one-hundred or so posts alone, but it's not worth the time. You'll find some way to paint yourself as the victim a la the little kid who kept throwing rocks at the hornets nest.

 

You and Muggah don't deserve any respect, don't show any respect, yet you feel entitled to it.

[Bellhorn04]

Looks like it's about time for Oswalt's agent to give him a slap and tell him to start liking the Red Sox.

[FredLynn]

Apparently you didn't read the post at all, where I specifically said "Muggah". Not that you're any better. I'm sure if I felt like it I could come up with several examples in your last one-hundred or so posts alone, but it's not worth the time. You'll find some way to paint yourself as the victim a la the little kid who kept throwing rocks at the hornets nest.

 

You and Muggah don't deserve any respect, don't show any respect, yet you feel entitled to it.

 

I see. You like to do the accusing, but when it comes to backing up your worthless claims, you claim that you "don't feel like it". That puts your statements in the category of unsubstantiated jibberish.

Oh-and I could not care less if someone of your stature respects me here or not. Life for me will somehow go on without it.

[seabeachfred]

 

Have you and Bellhorn given some thought about just how enthusiastic and committed Roy Oswalt is going to be if we do get him? It seems obvious to me that he doesn't want to play in Boston and though like you I would like him for our 4th spot in the rotation and think that would make us much better, what kind of a mindset would the guy have pitching for us when he'd rather be somewhere else? Is he also worried, fearful, scared that he will not be able to handle the American League? These questions seem silly, I know, but you have to wonder about the guy and why he doesn't want any part of Boston. How might that play in the heat of a pennant race?

[Emmz]

I see. You like to do the accusing, but when it comes to backing up your worthless claims, you claim that you "don't feel like it". That puts your statements in the category of unsubstantiated jibberish.

Oh-and I could not care less if someone of your stature respects me here or not. Life for me will somehow go on without it.

 

It's not worth the effort. I already explained why, but you missed that, obviously. Oh, so now you're not seeking respect? I thought you wanted people to stop with the name-calling? Or do you just not have the anatomy to withstand insults, but only to dish them out? You can't have your cake and eat it as well.

[FredLynn]

It's not worth the effort. I already explained why' date=' but you missed that, obviously. Oh, so now you're not seeking respect? I thought you wanted people to stop with the name-calling? Or do you just not have the anatomy to withstand insults, but only to dish them out? You can't have your cake and eat it as well.[/quote']

 

I know only a few people here personally. For those people I would like their respect as they have mine. As for everyone else, including you, its just not that important. In particular, YOU are not that important to me. Perhaps if I met you personally I would change my mind.

As for the name calling, its my opinion that it has no place in a public forum except occasionally in self defense. You obviously have a different opinion. Go for it if it makes you feel better. I am not your father, nor am I Muggah's or Fred's father. I stated my own feelings on the topic for everyone to see (and yes, its consistent for everyone), but in the end everyone does what they feel is right.