2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[jung]

E1 I think the reason your premise is drawing such fire is because it is something of a straw-man. Asking how we would have felt IF the Yanks picked up Ortiz is hardly a rational for what the Sox did.

 

In the first place how we would have felt has nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

 

and if you want to know...If the Sox made a rational choice and did something that made sense with the resources used for Ortiz I don't give a damn what the Yanks did. I can't control what the Yanks do. I can't control what the Red Sox do but if I was in position of authority I would do what was in the best interest of the performance of my team. What some other team does subsequently is what some other team does.

 

I will tell you this though....if you really want to make me feel good about myself as a pro sports GM, tell me that you are going to do things or not do things based on what I might do subsequently and I will think you are a fool and I will think I have got you right where I want you.

[Bellhorn04]

I think sometimes certain points of view just pick up steam and people stop taking a close look at some of the implications. Specifically, the notion that Ortiz is going to cost a giant chunk of money, that the money would be better spent on pitching and that we don't really need his bat anymore. I think it's the last part that's especially contentious. Ortiz was 8th in the majors in OPS last year, behind Bautista, Cabrera, Braun, Kemp, Fielder, Berkman and A-Gon. Ahead of Votto, Pujols and all the other big bats you can think of.

 

The prevailing wisdom is that we need pitching a lot more than we need offense now. Well, you still do need offense.

[redsoxfan3]

So after a long weekend of work, I wasn't really around much. What is Papi expecting in terms of a multiyear contract? I know that he wants one, but I don't think we can offer him anything more than 2/20. At this point, I just want him to get the Red Sox offer in arbitration so he is off the books for next year. If we really feel the need to sign him again after this season, he will always be there next year. I am not really comfortable with giving him a multiyear contract, especially for anything more than two years.

[SoxSport]

I think they need Ortiz' bat in the lineup. They have Crawford who needs an aboutface this year to get back to his career norms. They also need a healthy Youks and AdGon. And it isn't clear that Youks will be able to hold up at 3B. There are enough lineup questions to pay a 36yo DH $12 mil another year. But if they have to pay him $16mil, Henry should be forced to sell his yacht for granting him arb in the first place.

 

As for pitching, what they need is for that top 3 to earn their pay--which isn't always the case. And for those new bullpen guys to come through. I don't know if throwing any more money at what's out there in pitching will make them any better.

 

They also need a change in the easygoing atmosphere on the team--which presumably is why Bobby V. was brought in. At some point come spring training, the Bobby V. smiles will end.

[Muggah]

Hey good friend' date=' my take that we all have a GM-MGR in our head was absolutely spot-on where you're concerned because I think what you would have done would have been a hell of a lot better than what WAS done. Of course it helps that I happen to agree with all your take on this, but I would venture to say that if we could pick 700 and Pumpsie's brain we would get some pretty good suggestions as well. Hell, even User could come up with some good ideas even though he thinks he couldn't do it because he is not the GM. The fact is some of us were thinking about what to do this off season even before Cherington did because he wasn't GM until a few days after the season ended while the vast majority of us were already thinking beforehand what we could do to dig our way out of this mess that Epstein and Francona left us.[/quote']

 

While I agree with you about User, Fred, you can't blame him. There's a lot of people who feel simply that because Cherington or Epstink holds the title of GM that they're better qualified to assess things. In truth, nothing could be further from the truth. You, me, and hell a lot of other people had this thing pegged before Cherington even got in the seat. And for crissakes how many years did we have Blunder pegged before the rest of the fanbase caught up?

 

There's tons of people who know every bit as much (in a lot of cases more) than the person with the title--and I'd encourage folks like User to offer up their suggestions more confidently.

[Muggah]

I can no longer read SBF's posts, for obvious reasons.

 

OUR Sox may as well throw in the towel. Not show up at all. No hope. The sky is Falling. OUR Sox that we have rooted for our ENTIRE lives are DOOMED in 2012. So let's blame Ben, Jason, Timmy and Brian Cashman's wife. WE HAVE TO BLAME SOME ONE when we have our tantrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Now I truly know what it feels like to be a VICTIM!!!!!! WAAAAHHHHH. BOOOO HOOOO

 

 

Fred's track record speaks for itself when it comes to assessing things clearly. Nuff said.

[Muggah]

So after a long weekend of work' date=' I wasn't really around much. What is Papi expecting in terms of a multiyear contract? I know that he wants one, but I don't think we can offer him anything more than 2/20. At this point, I just want him to get the Red Sox offer in arbitration so he is off the books for next year. If we really feel the need to sign him again after this season, he will always be there next year. I am not really comfortable with giving him a multiyear contract, especially for anything more than two years.[/quote']

 

He'll be another year older, the new inter-league schedule kicks in...why would anyone in their right mind sign him to a two year deal of any kind? Only a complete idiot would do that.

[User Name]

While I agree with you about User, Fred, you can't blame him. There's a lot of people who feel simply that because Cherington or Epstink holds the title of GM that they're better qualified to assess things. In truth, nothing could be further from the truth. You, me, and hell a lot of other people had this thing pegged before Cherington even got in the seat. And for crissakes how many years did we have Blunder pegged before the rest of the fanbase caught up?

 

There's tons of people who know every bit as much (in a lot of cases more) than the person with the title--and I'd encourage folks like User to offer up their suggestions more confidently.

 

You really really really need to get over yourselves. You had nothing "pegged". Like the rest of us, you know absolutely nothing about the internal workings of this baseball team, or any for that matter.

[FredLynn]

I think sometimes certain points of view just pick up steam and people stop taking a close look at some of the implications. Specifically, the notion that Ortiz is going to cost a giant chunk of money, that the money would be better spent on pitching and that we don't really need his bat anymore. I think it's the last part that's especially contentious. Ortiz was 8th in the majors in OPS last year, behind Bautista, Cabrera, Braun, Kemp, Fielder, Berkman and A-Gon. Ahead of Votto, Pujols and all the other big bats you can think of.

 

The prevailing wisdom is that we need pitching a lot more than we need offense now. Well, you still do need offense.

 

We DO need pitching more than his offense this year. I think we would have done fine with runs scored even without Ortiz. The problem is that this year there were slim pickings for SP. When CJ is the top SP available that fact becomes obvious. So fine, we got Ortiz for ONE YEAR. We must not give him two years under any circumstances. Next year is the year we have to use those resources to sign one or two elite SP.

[Elktonnick]

He'll be another year older' date=' the new inter-league schedule kicks in...why would anyone in their right mind sign him to a two year deal of any kind? Only a complete idiot would do that.[/quote']

 

I think people have underestimated how much the interleague schedule will change the role of the DH. I don't think teams will be as likely to carry a DH who can't field a position. Furthermore, Ortiz hit well this past year because it was his contract year. How would the security of a two year contract affect his performance? I lost a great deal of respect for Ortiz last year after that tirade over the RBI. He has earned the moniker "Big Diva" for a good reason.

[MANNYHOF24]

Is it spring training yet?

[Muggah]

You really really really need to get over yourselves. You had nothing "pegged". Like the rest of us' date=' you know absolutely nothing about the internal workings of this baseball team, or any for that matter.[/quote']

 

That's what you think.

[User Name]

Is it spring training yet?

 

Definitely bro. Definitely.

[seabeachfred]

While I agree with you about User, Fred, you can't blame him. There's a lot of people who feel simply that because Cherington or Epstink holds the title of GM that they're better qualified to assess things. In truth, nothing could be further from the truth. You, me, and hell a lot of other people had this thing pegged before Cherington even got in the seat. And for crissakes how many years did we have Blunder pegged before the rest of the fanbase caught up?

 

There's tons of people who know every bit as much (in a lot of cases more) than the person with the title--and I'd encourage folks like User to offer up their suggestions more confidently.

 

The problem is that we have some people on this board who have full trust and confidence in the front office as in they know what they're doing and they can do it better than we can. It is those people who most likely never played much baseball, certainly never coached it and most definately never scouted for it. We also have people here who were adamant that Cherington or Henry or whoever not offer Ortiz arbitration this winter because he would accept it while the front office gambled he wouldn't. It was abject stupidity on their part that they couldn't see what so many of us "amateurs" could. That move tied our hands for pitching and we are seeing that now as the front office is throwing dollars around like they're manhole covers.

 

When some of us predicted that we would not get Kuroda, nor would be get Jackson, and most likely not get anyone of note, they railed at us and attacked us for our "disloyalty" and lack of confidence in what the front office was doing. Well here we are just a couple of weeks before the trucks leave and we have a team that most likely is weaker than last year, that Cherington will make another blunder and give Ortiz a multi-year contract which will block Lavarnway, our best young RH power hitter indefinately at a time when the schedule will call for more inter-league games where Ortiz will be useless and still demand that he play some of those games. And let's not fail to mention that we still don't know about Varitek showing up for ST to further cloud what is already a disfunctional situation.

[seabeachfred]

You really really really need to get over yourselves. You had nothing "pegged". Like the rest of us' date=' you know absolutely nothing about the internal workings of this baseball team, or any for that matter.[/quote']

 

Again, speak for yourself User. Nothing pegged? Not so; some of us have the front office pretty well pegged and have for some time---like knowing they would offer Ortiz arbitration, which we knew from the start would be a disaster for us in trying to get the pitching we needed with the money we had for that. Apparently you didn't have the FO pegged and didn't believe they would. Or you thought they would and Papi would turn it down. Either way you didn't have it pegged and we did, lot of us here did.

 

We also said we wouldn't get that No. 4 starter we've been begging for, not Kuroda, not Jackson, not anyone. You keep saying we will. Well do we?? Your problem just like Lin Nay is that you have complete confidence in the front office to get the job done right. Some of us through bitter experience and long memories don't. So as much as I respect your passion we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

[User Name]

I predicted the Sox would not get CJ Wilson, Albert Pujols, or Prince Fielder. I should be GM of the Red Sox.

[NativeBostonian]

I predicted the Sox would not get CJ Wilson' date=' Albert Pujols, or Prince Fielder. I should be GM of the Red Sox.[/quote']

 

You probably would do a better job at it too.

[User Name]

I also predicted that the Red Sox would, in fact, have a 25-man roster all of 2011 (until September) and would start with one in 2012.

 

I should supplant Larry Lucchino.

[Muggah]

Again, speak for yourself User. Nothing pegged? Not so; some of us have the front office pretty well pegged and have for some time---like knowing they would offer Ortiz arbitration, which we knew from the start would be a disaster for us in trying to get the pitching we needed with the money we had for that. Apparently you didn't have the FO pegged and didn't believe they would. Or you thought they would and Papi would turn it down. Either way you didn't have it pegged and we did, lot of us here did.

 

We also said we wouldn't get that No. 4 starter we've been begging for, not Kuroda, not Jackson, not anyone. You keep saying we will. Well do we?? Your problem just like Lin Nay is that you have complete confidence in the front office to get the job done right. Some of us through bitter experience and long memories don't. So as much as I respect your passion we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

It's shaping up to be a long, irritating season if you're one of those rumpswab tub-thumpers who's first inclination is to go postal anytime you see the slightest criticism attributed to this team. If you fall into that category you may want to consider stocking up on your blood pressure meds----from the looks of things there's going to be plenty of criticism to go around.

[Elktonnick]

I find it fascinating that some people critcize those of us who make reasonable judgments about the FO based on what it is they do or fail to do. Seems Red Sox fans have been doing that ( criticizing the FO) for the past one huindred years.

[seabeachfred]

I find it fascinating that some people critcize those of us who make reasonable judgments about the FO based on what it is they do or fail to do. Seems Red Sox fans have been doing that ( criticizing the FO) for the past one huindred years.

 

They not only criticize Elk, they go ballistic. They simply do not want to hear any discouraging word said about their team despite evidence that the front office has not brought the team up to speed this off season.

[FredLynn]

Again, speak for yourself User. Nothing pegged? Not so; some of us have the front office pretty well pegged and have for some time---like knowing they would offer Ortiz arbitration, which we knew from the start would be a disaster for us in trying to get the pitching we needed with the money we had for that. Apparently you didn't have the FO pegged and didn't believe they would. Or you thought they would and Papi would turn it down. Either way you didn't have it pegged and we did, lot of us here did.

 

We also said we wouldn't get that No. 4 starter we've been begging for, not Kuroda, not Jackson, not anyone. You keep saying we will. Well do we?? Your problem just like Lin Nay is that you have complete confidence in the front office to get the job done right. Some of us through bitter experience and long memories don't. So as much as I respect your passion we will just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

I remember posting that we would not get a decent #4 SP. I wrote that the FO would claim that they have done due diligence in their search and in the end would profess total confidence in our current pitching staff (regardless of the fact that its no better than last year). I do not disagree with this tactic as long as it keeps us under the cap, mind you, but several of us here clearly have our FO's modus operandi down pretty good.

[User Name]

I predicted before the off-season that the Red Sox would not spend a lot of money. I should be Red Sox acting GM and president of operations.

[SCM33]

I find it fascinating that some people critcize those of us who make reasonable judgments about the FO based on what it is they do or fail to do. Seems Red Sox fans have been doing that ( criticizing the FO) for the past one huindred years.

 

They not only criticize Elk' date=' they go ballistic. They simply do not want to hear any discouraging word said about their team despite evidence that the front office has not brought the team up to speed this off season.[/quote']

 

This is going to be tough.........

 

*cough*I agree*cough*

[FredLynn]

I predicted before the off-season that the Red Sox would not spend a lot of money. I should be Red Sox acting GM and president of operations.

 

Running a baseball team is not rocket science. With proper training my guess is that several posters here would exhibit much better common sense and judgement than our previous GM. Jury is out on Cherington IMO.

[User Name]

I am preparing my resume as we speak.

[a700hitter]

Outrighted To Triple-A: Scott Atchison

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 6 at 4:41pm CST]

 

The latest outright assignments from around MLB...

 

The Red Sox outrighted Scott Atchison to Triple-A after he cleared waivers, Maureen Mullen of CSN New England tweets. The Red Sox had designated the 35-year-old for assignment late last month. He posted a 3.26 ERA with 5.0 K/9 and 1.8 BB/9 in 30 1/3 innings for the 2011 Red Sox and logged 61 1/3 more innings at Triple-A with a 2.64 ERA, 10.6 K/9 and 1.3 BB/9.

Bullpen depth in the minors.

[Station 13]

Bullpen depth in the minors.

 

What bullpen?

 

We lost 5WAR from Pap/Bard combo.

[Elktonnick]

Running a baseball team is not rocket science. With proper training my guess is that several posters here would exhibit much better common sense and judgement than our previous GM. Jury is out on Cherington IMO.

 

Considering the number of dunderheads who have been GMs in MLB over the years the first part of your post is an understatement to say the least.

[Station 13]

Cardinals Not Likely To Sign Roy Oswalt

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 6 at 9:33pm CST]

 

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak acknowledges he’ll be ‘opportunistic’ about potential deals, but says he’s not expecting significant moves before Spring Training, according to Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Though the Cardinals and Roy Oswalt had mutual interest in a deal, they couldn’t reach an agreement.

 

Oswalt was asking for a significant guarantee in terms of role and salary, but the Cardinals aren’t looking to add payroll. The Cardinals haven’t spoken to Oswalt’s agent in the past week or so, Goold writes. The Reds appear to be kicking the tires on the right-hander, but the Rangers aren’t likely to sign him.