2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

I don't think the Red Sox plan on letting Aceves start. They picked up a s*** ton of depth in order to keep one of Bard/Aceves in the bullpen. There are ten different guys who will all be competing for the #5 spot.

 

I know you're skeptical, and think they're all garbage(and you're probably right) but when you have ten guys-- the majority of which has either had major league success, or has the stuff they need to have major league success-- there is a good chance one will emerge.

 

Best case scenario, they get another starter, and there are eleven guys competing for the #5 spot (including Bard).

 

I'd love to get a peek at the ST schedule for the Red Sox and it better have a lot of "B" games on tap because we have a lot of looking to do with that "ton of s***" in order to find one or two of them that might actually see us strike Yankee Colon-Garcia type gold this season. Cook, Miller, Padilla, Silva, Germano Haeger, Maine----that's a lot of crap to go through and in my opinion you can scratch Maine, Haeger and Miller from that list now. One is downright putrid that even the Mets didn't want him, one is a knuckler who got creamed when he was pitched for the LA Bums out here, and the other guy couldn't find the plate with a searchlight. To show you how bad these guys are, Heinie Germano may be the worst of all. Well who does that leave us with...Cook and Padilla? Throw in Tazawa, Doubrant, and whosever else and pray that someone rises to the occasion.

 

As the old saying goes, throw enough s*** at a wall and sooner or later some of it will stick permanently. Who'se the "tough s***" of this bunch? Don't ask me.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather Miller than Cooke or Padilla. He's bearable as 6th - 7th SP.

[SoxSport]

The guys we have signed don't even make it to the level of mud. Signing John Maine is a complete joke. The Mets' date=' who completely suck, will not even touch this guy. The last time i saw him they had to pull him off the Mets mound, because he couldn't top 84. He said that his arm was sound. I can't see upside here at all. Whatever they are giving him would have been put to better use making a charitable donation. The same goes for the rest of the crew of Silva, Cook and Padilla. I give Padilla an outside chance of having a short period of usefulness.[/quote']

 

You never know. Maybe some of these guys have a new set of stem cells in their arms.

 

Cafardo predicts ARod will have a "monster" year. ARod just had the Kobe Bryant rejuvenation treatment in Germany. We'll see.

[jacksonianmarch]

You never know. Maybe some of these guys have a new set of stem cells in their arms.

 

Cafardo predicts ARod will have a "monster" year. ARod just had the Kobe Bryant rejuvenation treatment in Germany. We'll see.

 

I hope that therapy includes some Winstrol and some Bolies. Bitch tits needs to stay healthy this yr

[a700hitter]

This is disturbing. Why can't he just pack it in?

 

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20120129/COLUMNISTS0317/301290050/John-Torres-Wakefield-plays-waiting-game?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|Home|p

[mvp 78]

Why pack it in if you could score a $1M payday?

[seabeachfred]

About a week ago' date=' maybe a little more, the members of TalkSox almost unanimously agreed that the Sox needed to get another starting pitcher. There was no dissent on that. Without another starting pitcher we were pretty much in agreement that the 2012 pitching will most likely be about the same as the 2011 pitching not significantly better or worse. Obviously, if everything works out perfect, the 2012 pitching could significantly improve. Similarly, with a few bad breaks, the 2012 pitching could crash and burn. However, the expectation is that they will be about the same as 2011, which proved not to be good enough. Now, that the news has turned very discouraging about us getting another stater, I don't understand how some posters are saying that we will be alright with what we have.:dunno:[/quote']

 

Well on the HALLMARK channel they are now showing the movie "POLLYANNA". Maybe that is giving those that think that way some much needed inspiration and a complete trip from reality.

[a700hitter]

3:47pm: The Cards appear to be interested in salary relief more than obtaining a high-end prospect for McClellan, tweets Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. The club could also move Kyle Lohse or Jake Westbrook to the bullpen.

 

Morosi adds that the club has discussed deals with Oswalt in the range of $7.5MM while the pitcher seeks $10MM. Moving McClellan, who makes $2.5MM, would give the Cards enough room to sign the veteran (Twitter link).

Benny Boy needs to go to Oswalt's home and walk in there with a $10 million contract and tell him he has until the end of the meeting to sign. If he doesn't sign, the Sox need to tell him that the offer is off the table and they will go in a different direction and they will announce to the press that they have no interest in Oswalt. That will cause his market and leverage to shrink dramatically. An approach like this is the only chance the Sox have to land him IMO. Ben, get the hell off your couch, buy a plane ticket and go see Oswalt. One of us will drive you to and from the airport. You are not going to make this deal talking on the phone. Get going and get it done.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hell, what about McClellan? The guy was the balls in 2010 out of the pen and showed he could at least hold his own in the rotation last yr.

[seabeachfred]

I'd rather Miller than Cooke or Padilla. He's bearable as 6th - 7th SP.

 

Well MVP, that might to bear some watching. Miller is so damn wild and he hasn't developed since he was a No. 1 draft of the Tigers. If Cook is healthy he could win some games for us on moxie and experience alone since he mixes is pitches up pretty well and moves the ball around. Unfortunately, as 700 put it, he can't break a pane of glass so I wonder if wowing them with footwork would would be effective in the AL East. Padilla is a mean bastard and I saw him pitch some good ball on TV when he was with the Dodgers. I'd still take a good No. 4 pitcher over any of the three any day.

[mvp 78]

Well on the HALLMARK channel they are now showing the movie "POLLYANNA". Maybe that is giving those that think that way some much needed inspiration and a complete trip from reality.

 

And Idiocracy was on earlier today. It's about a society that devolves to the lowest common denomenator and people no longer use their brains.

[Muggah]

I'd love to get a peek at the ST schedule for the Red Sox and it better have a lot of "B" games on tap because we have a lot of looking to do with that "ton of s***" in order to find one or two of them that might actually see us strike Yankee Colon-Garcia type gold this season. Cook, Miller, Padilla, Silva, Germano Haeger, Maine----that's a lot of crap to go through and in my opinion you can scratch Maine, Haeger and Miller from that list now. One is downright putrid that even the Mets didn't want him, one is a knuckler who got creamed when he was pitched for the LA Bums out here, and the other guy couldn't find the plate with a searchlight. To show you how bad these guys are, Heinie Germano may be the worst of all. Well who does that leave us with...Cook and Padilla? Throw in Tazawa, Doubrant, and whosever else and pray that someone rises to the occasion.

 

As the old saying goes, throw enough s*** at a wall and sooner or later some of it will stick permanently. Who'se the "tough s***" of this bunch? Don't ask me.

 

 

This is shaping up to be like 2006 again, Fred---when they paraded the likes of Jason Johnson, Kyle Snyder, Lenny DiNardo, and a host of other losers to the mound each night in the second half and called it a 'rotation.'

 

Look, people can dream all they like--but the cold hard truth is the odds are stacked heavily against this team being anything more than 3rd place team in the AL East. And IMHO, they'll probably have to fight TOR tooth and nail to finish 3rd.

 

And another cold hard truth is that people are just assuming Clay's back is going to hold up, and that Bard steps in an becomes a legitimate 4th SP, and that Beckett not only bucks his past history of tanking horribly after a good year like he had last year, but comes to camp in shape and ready to completely change his attitude---which I think is crazy. I think it's far more in line with Josh's personality that he comes to camp telling anyone looking to question him about anything to go f*** themselves.

 

With Bard, Clay, and Josh all big question marks, IMO, i think it's very possible that we could be looking at a rotation that includes Padilla, Cook and whoever else by mid-June or so. This isn't a good year for those who like to wear the rose colored glasses--not even the 'half-full' people. LOL

[Muggah]

Well on the HALLMARK channel they are now showing the movie "POLLYANNA". Maybe that is giving those that think that way some much needed inspiration and a complete trip from reality.

 

It's gettin' about that time when the pollyannas and the tub thumpers go straight off the deep end again, Fred--and start making predictions crazy enough that if they talked that way at their jobs they'd be forced to sit down with the company shrink for a mental evaluation.

 

It's like clockwork with these people, it happens every year.

[Muggah]

Why pack it in if you could score a $1M payday?

 

 

Maybe because you suck and people know you're only doing it for the money and personal reasons?

[mvp 78]

Maybe because you suck and people know you're only doing it for the money and personal reasons?

 

For shame! Doing something for "personal reasons!" Not acceptable!

 

"This isn't Russia. Is this Russia." Ty webb

[Muggah]

For shame! Doing something for "personal reasons!" Not acceptable!

 

"This isn't Russia. Is this Russia." Ty webb

 

Wakefield apologist?

[FredLynn]

For shame! Doing something for "personal reasons!" Not acceptable!

 

"This isn't Russia. Is this Russia." Ty webb

 

He can "do it to" some other team. With my team, he is not welcome, at least by me and like-minded individuals.

[mvp 78]

Wakefield apologist?

 

No, it's called realism. People should make a living how they see fit (if legal). Faulting him for not retiring is just an impossible argument to make.

 

America is a free market, right? If he can make more $$$, good for him.

[mvp 78]

He can "do it to" some other team. With my team' date=' he is not welcome, at least by me and like-minded individuals.[/quote']

 

I don't have a problem with this pov.

[Muggah]

No, it's called realism. People should make a living how they see fit (if legal). Faulting him for not retiring is just an impossible argument to make.

 

America is a free market, right? If he can make more $$$, good for him.

 

 

I suppose. But like Pumpsie says, let him do it somewhere else. We've seen enough of this jerkoff and his side-show antics.

[example1]

While the 2011 team was not an utter failure' date=' the consensus is that the biggest problem with the team was the pitching. If we are going to go into 2012 with pitching that we all think is about the same, that is not a good thing. I think we could find ourselves in a similar situation with our current roster at the end of the season, and the downturn or collapse could start earlier.[/quote']

 

I disagree that pitching is definitely about the same. I think Bard is a great addition and that Buchholz is healthy. That's a big difference. I also think Lester is likely to pitch better, and that Becketts performance wasn't just luck.

 

Before people tell me it is just wishful thinking just know in advance my response will be "we will see".

[mvp 78]

My guess: Becks regresses

Lester is the same

3-5 is better (Buch pitches 160-200 innings, 4 and 5 can't be worse than last year)

[User Name]

Please take this as friendly legitimate criticism because I like you User even if we disagree a lot of the time. You really get bent out of shape when a poster says something that is less than complimentary about the Red Sox chances. You seem to take it as a personal affront and get very angry about it. BPEF seems to me to be a class act and every time we've exchanged posts I have found him to be a real gentlemen as well as a knowledgeable baseball fan. I really couldn't understand you going off on him the way you did yesterday.

 

Please keep in mind that no matter what the differences are, we are all ardent and passionate Red Sox fans who only want the best for their team. Some see the glass as half full as you and o thers do, some see it as half-empty. Diversity is good for keeping the board alive. And just for the record, when the Red Sox win a game I consider the whole day to be a success.

 

Two things:

 

A) This is assumption. Just because i'm straight to the point doesn't mean i'm "bent out of shape". I call a spade a spade and people who disagree with me take it as a slight even though people who agree with them do the same thing. Hypocrisy if ya ask me.

 

B ) BPEF really needs to get off my nuts, and add to the discussion. As people here always say, it's about the argument, not who's arguing. Does it only apply when you're defending someone you like?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Three out of 5 days they can compete against anyone. On the 4th and 5th days' date=' I wouldn't be so sure.[/quote']

 

We don't know if we'll be getting a pitcher and Dice-K and Lackey aren't in the back of the rotation this year. if we're not throwing Weiland or Miller than we might be ok. Let's say we get Jackson and have Bard or Aceves in the 5th spot. Are you sure now? Lackey ended up getting 12 wins even with his terrible pitching. It can't be that bad.

[User Name]

My guess: Becks regresses

Lester is the same

3-5 is better (Buch pitches 160-200 innings, 4 and 5 can't be worse than last year)

 

They still need an SP though.

[FredLynn]

I disagree that pitching is definitely about the same. I think Bard is a great addition and that Buchholz is healthy. That's a big difference. I also think Lester is likely to pitch better, and that Becketts performance wasn't just luck.

 

Before people tell me it is just wishful thinking just know in advance my response will be "we will see".

 

I believe that making an assumption that our three competent SP will not be spending at least as much time on the DL as last year is a mistake. Only one really took significant time off last year. Lester and Beckett both threw over 190 innings last year. Thats pretty much a full season.

[example1]

I believe that making an assumption that our three competent SP will not be spending at least as much time on the DL as last year is a mistake. Only one really took significant time off last year. Lester and Beckett both threw over 190 innings last year. Thats pretty much a full season.

 

We will see.

[Muggah]

We will see.

 

 

Can't you really just say that about any idiotic prediction? "We will see."

 

I can say the world is going to blow up in the next 20 minutes, and then just say "We will see," to anyone who questions me. Yes, theoretically it's correct, but I still sound like a babbling lunatic, don't I?

[User Name]

What? Someone thinking the three of them can hold together for a whole season is optimistic, but in no way idiotic. Lester (post 2007) had pretty much been the picture of health, Buchh's back issue was his first significant injury (and it was a stress fracture). The real wild card is Beckett. But it's not far-fetched or stupid idea at all.

[a700hitter]

I disagree that pitching is definitely about the same. I think Bard is a great addition and that Buchholz is healthy. That's a big difference. I also think Lester is likely to pitch better, and that Becketts performance wasn't just luck.

 

Before people tell me it is just wishful thinking just know in advance my response will be "we will see".

Injuries and health issues can't be predicted. There is absolutely no good reason to believe that there will not be an injury to one of the top 3. We don't know what caused Buch' s back fracture and whether it can be a chronic problem. We don't know if Beckett stays healthy etc. Looking at the makeup of the staff, assuming health or injury, I agree that Bard could be an improvement over what was in the 4th slot last year, but we just don't know. He could just as easily blow up. He's an unknown at this point, but I'll concede that he should be an improvement. That still leaves you with TBD in the 5th spot if we don't make an acquisition. Additionally, you are not saying how the much the decrease in the quality of our bullpen (resulting from moving Bard) will offset the improvement Bard brings to the rotation. I don't think Melancon will be close to the weapon in the 8th inning that Bard had become. It really comes down to the delta between the improvement to the rotation brought by Bard and the decline experienced by the bullpen by losing Bard. I just don't see that as being significant. Even the top 3 stay healthy all season long, a black hole in the 5th spot from day one would be even worse than what we had there last year.