2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

What i don't understand is the need to absolutely s*** on the team' date=' it's management, and the Front Office constantly, even though the final construction of the team is yet to be determined?[/b']

 

As E1 said, holding judgement, just like agreeing to disagree, is not going to kill anyone.

 

MVP, for example, disagrees with a lot of the things the FO does, but he points out to them in a manner that doesn't make other people want to rip their nails out. It's not impossible.

 

THIS. How f***ing stupid will people look if we win the World Series?

[iortiz]

THIS. How f***ing stupid will people look if we win the World Series?

 

I don't think so Mike.

 

Everyone around here wants that we win the WS. The thing is that some see more/less possibilities if we go like this, that's all.

[mvp 78]

I don't care if someone is negative, just provide a coherent argument. If all you can bring to the table is "boob" this and FrancoMa that, find some new, funnier material. That s*** is played out.

[Divinity]

Yup' date=' until Jackson/Oswalt are not signed somewhere else, I have hopes. Keeping my fingers crossed. [/quote']

 

Roy Oswalt has elected to remain in the National League and is likely to sign with the St. Louis Cardinals "soon," a major league source said late Friday night.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't think so Mike.

 

Everyone around here wants that we win the WS. The thing is that some see more/less possibilities if we go like this, that's all.

 

How can that be true if a lot of people are throwing the white flag?

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I don't care if someone is negative' date=' just provide a coherent argument. If all you can bring to the table is "boob" this and FrancoMa that, find some new, funnier material. That s*** is played out.[/quote']

 

THANK YOU. SBF you should really consider this, seriously.

[User Name]

Roy Oswalt has elected to remain in the National League and is likely to sign with the St. Louis Cardinals "soon' date='" a major league source said late Friday night.[/quote']

 

This was disproved on several newspieces today.

[User Name]

I don't care if someone is negative' date=' just provide a coherent argument. If all you can bring to the table is "boob" this and FrancoMa that, find some new, funnier material. That s*** is played out.[/quote']

 

It's hard to provide a coherent argument if you're extremely biased one way or another.

 

I mean, some of the stuff thrown out here as "criticism" is either flat out conjecture or downright silly.

[Divinity]

This was disproved on several newspieces today.

 

Ah okay, I just saw that Cardinals insist that there's no deal in place with Oswalt, according to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch

[jung]

I think most if not all of the folks that have voiced concerns have voiced them about the team as it is currently constructed and since Management has come out and publicly stated that they are content with the team as it is currently constructed it seems to me that offering the contrary view is valid criticism.

 

You can disagree with those that voice concerns about the team as it is currently constructed and you can even argue that you think Management's comments are a smoke screen but to suggest that the team as currently constructed should not be fair game when Sox Management's comments about said team are a matter of public record seems pretty pitiful to me.

[iortiz]

How can that be true if a lot of people are throwing the white flag?

 

Well, one thing is "want" and another "can". I want that we win the WS, you bet my friend. On the other hand and trying to be realistic/objective, I see that scenario very unlikely if we go like this.

[jacksonianmarch]

ESPN posted a article a few hours ago saying Oswalt to sign with Cardinals pending physical on back.

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7512382/source-roy-oswalt-likely-sign-st-louis-cardinals-soon

 

Card's GM did say "These are just rumors, and nothing more." so I guess we'll see

 

There's no guarantee that he passes his physical, until then, the deal isnt complete.

[User Name]

Yet they have also publicly pursued SP's and publicly noted that any savings from Scutaro would be devoted to a player later in the season speak for themselves.

 

"Content" and "Satisfied" are not the same thing, and actions speak louder than words. It'd be stupid to expect them to come out and say "this team sucks".

 

What's pitiful is how it's easy to "see the writing on the wall" on a selective basis.

[mvp 78]

Jung, beat writers are basically playing the telephone game. No wonder stories contradict one another. If Ben was being honest, he'd probably say there is work to be done. Why would he say he was content if he has open contract offers on the table? It just doesn't add up.

[User Name]

Well' date=' one thing is "want" and another "can". I want that we win the WS, you bet my friend. On the other hand and trying to be realistic/objective, I see that scenario very unlikely if we go like this.[/quote']

 

Why? Who says they don't stay healthy until mid-season then add a pitcher? Or they get lucky with some of the secondhand pitchers?

 

Which is exactly the point of the conversation. As is, this team can compete, but it's a pitcher away. Until it's not certain they won't get that pitcher, saying otherwise is a fool's errand.

[iortiz]

THANK YOU. SBF you should really consider this' date=' seriously.[/quote']

 

Fred is 77 YO or something. That tells me a lot. He is an expirienced man. He has watched a loooot of baseball. He has brought a lot to the table. His opinion shouldn't take lightly. I find out the nicknames funny, no big deal to me. IMO he is a nice guy.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yet they have also publicly pursued SP's and publicly noted that any savings from Scutaro would be devoted to a player later in the season speak for themselves.

 

"Content" and "Satisfied" are not the same thing, and actions speak louder than words. It'd be stupid to expect them to come out and say "this team sucks".

 

What's pitiful is how it's easy to "see the writing on the wall" on a selective basis.

 

UN, it is easy for people to be both down on the sox and up. The optimists point to the fact that they were the best team in baseball for a 120 game stretch and the fact that they should start out the yr healthy. The pessimists look at the fact that they crumbled down the stretch because their pitching fell apart and as it stands, they've either gone backwards or stood pat compared to last yr. I dont think you can kill someone for being a pessimist, just like the pessimists shouldnt kill you for being optimistic.

 

Realistically, the sox have a bruising lineup, an average pen, and a starting rotation with the potential to be the best in the game but lacks true depth, lacks durability and proven back end performance. If things break right, they're in the playoffs. If things break wrong, it's a lost season. If they break about even, though, that's where the worriers are worrying. If you only lose one pitcher from your rotation for a substantial period of time (it happens to everyone), then what are your options? If you lose one position player for a prolonged period of time, what are the contingencies? (You're already down Crawford for the beginning). If healthy, the sox are world series caliber. But they havent been truly healthy in 3 seasons and return a similar cast of characters.

[User Name]

Fred is 77 YO or something. That tells me a lot. He is an expirienced man. He has watched a loooot of baseball. He has brought a lot to the table. His opinion shouldn't take lightly. I find out the nicknames funny' date=' no big deal to me. IMO he is a nice guy.[/quote']

 

Your point being? He's a poster on a baseball website, just like the rest of us. All of our opinions should be weighed on the basis of logic and coherence.

 

By this logic, i should bring my grandma over to Talksox. She's watched a loooooot of baseball, and she has a lot of cute nicknames for Red Sox players. She'd bring a lot to the table.

[iortiz]

Why? Who says they don't stay healthy until mid-season then add a pitcher? Or they get lucky with some of the secondhand pitchers?

 

Which is exactly the point of the conversation. As is, this team can compete, but it's a pitcher away. Until it's not certain they won't get that pitcher, saying otherwise is a fool's errand.

 

The point is pretty clear. Going like this, I doubt that we win the ring. If we add the SP our chances will be better, but still it is going to be tough.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Fred is 77 YO or something. That tells me a lot. He is an expirienced man. He has watched a loooot of baseball. He has brought a lot to the table. His opinion shouldn't take lightly. I find out the nicknames funny' date=' no big deal to me. IMO he is a nice guy.[/quote']

 

I don't care how much baseball the man has watched, it has nothing to do with nicknames. The nicknames aren't funny, they're just annoying and it's hard to take someone seriously. What pisses me off is when people swear they know how an organization works and flip their s*** when they don't have their way. If he has different opinions then I don't care. The constant ripping of the FO needs to tone down.

[User Name]

UN, it is easy for people to be both down on the sox and up. The optimists point to the fact that they were the best team in baseball for a 120 game stretch and the fact that they should start out the yr healthy. The pessimists look at the fact that they crumbled down the stretch because their pitching fell apart and as it stands, they've either gone backwards or stood pat compared to last yr. I dont think you can kill someone for being a pessimist, just like the pessimists shouldnt kill you for being optimistic.

 

Realistically, the sox have a bruising lineup, an average pen, and a starting rotation with the potential to be the best in the game but lacks true depth, lacks durability and proven back end performance. If things break right, they're in the playoffs. If things break wrong, it's a lost season. If they break about even, though, that's where the worriers are worrying. If you only lose one pitcher from your rotation for a substantial period of time (it happens to everyone), then what are your options? If you lose one position player for a prolonged period of time, what are the contingencies? (You're already down Crawford for the beginning). If healthy, the sox are world series caliber. But they havent been truly healthy in 3 seasons and return a similar cast of characters.

 

However, they've changed their medical and conditioning teams, have a new manager, and the possibility of adding another pitcher either before the season or before the TDL. So it seems likely that realistically, they can fix their one true weaknesses either now or during the season. The rest of what i mentioned is just gravy.

[User Name]

The point is pretty clear. Going like this' date=' I doubt that we win the ring. If we add the SP our chances will be better, but still it is going to be tough.[/quote']

 

Who's to say they won't? Are you certain? Is anyone on the site certain?

[iortiz]

Your point being? He's a poster on a baseball website, just like the rest of us. All of our opinions should be weighed on the basis of logic and coherence.

 

By this logic, i should bring my grandma over to Talksox. She's watched a loooooot of baseball, and she has a lot of cute nicknames for Red Sox players. She'd bring a lot to the table.

 

IMO He is logic and coherent. If you want to invite your grandma, bring her, she will be very welcome.

[jacksonianmarch]

However' date=' they've changed their medical and conditioning teams, have a new manager, and the possibility of adding another pitcher either before the season or before the TDL. So it seems likely that realistically, they can fix their one true weaknesses either now or during the season. The rest of what i mentioned is just gravy.[/quote']

 

The question now is, who do they get? Getting pitching during the season is easier said than done. The Yankees planned on needing to deal for a SP at the deadline, only to see Cleveland go nuts and change the landscape for deals involving top level starters. There will be an ace level pitcher on the move this season. The big questions are, will Ben be willing to make a move and do the sox have enough in the cupboard to pry a top notch starter free.

[User Name]

The question now is' date=' who do they get? Getting pitching during the season is easier said than done. The Yankees planned on needing to deal for a SP at the deadline, only to see Cleveland go nuts and change the landscape for deals involving top level starters. There will be an ace level pitcher on the move this season. The big questions are, will Ben be willing to make a move and do the sox have enough in the cupboard to pry a top notch starter free.[/quote']

 

None of us can be sure. But while it is hard to get a pitcher during the season (and remember, it's not certain they won't get one before the season) it is doable.

[User Name]

IMO He is logic and coherent. If you want to invite your grandma' date=' bring her, she will be very welcome. [/quote']

 

That's your opinion.

 

For the record, i don't dislike fred. I made a general statement which coincided with the conversation in which he was brought up.

[iortiz]

Who's to say they won't? Are you certain? Is anyone on the site certain?

 

Oh Boy, you have huge problems with others' opinions. You should realize for once and for all that this is a board. This is about opinions. That is my opinion. If you think the opposite, fine (We have great chances in order to win the ring)

[jacksonianmarch]

Let's just look at something right now. The projected opening day lineup, rotation and pen

 

1. Ellsbury CF

2. Pedroia 2B

3. Gonzalez 1B

4. Youkilis 3B

5. Ortiz DH

6. Ross LF

7. Saltalamacchia C

8. Sweeney RF

9. Punto/Aviles SS

 

1. Beckett

2. Lester

3. Buchholz

4. Aceves

5. Bard

 

CL- Bailey

SU- Melancon

MR- Morales

MR- Albers

MR- Doubront

MR- ???

MR- ???

[User Name]

Oh Boy' date=' you have huge problems with others' opinions. You should realize for once and for all that this is a board. This is about opinions. That is my opinion. If you think the opposite, fine (We have great chances in order to win the ring)[/quote']

 

You're missing the point in your attempt to get on the defensive. It seems to me that the problem here has to do with you and reading comprehension. (No offense)

 

I have not argued that, as they are currently constructed, they have a great chance to win the World Series, because they don't. What i am disputing is the notion that they will not add another pitcher to the staff and that is the final product they will put on the field.

[jacksonianmarch]

None of us can be sure. But while it is hard to get a pitcher during the season (and remember' date=' it's not certain they won't get one before the season) it is doable.[/quote']

 

It is doable, but difficult and with the cupboard pretty bare of high level upper minors talent, they may not be able to make a move even if they wanted to. Regardless, I was saying from game 1 last yr that the Yankees were going to get a pure #2 starter. Eventually they developed a pitcher capable of holding the reigns at season's end, but they never could pull that trigger