2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

All I can say is that news/reports/wires in recent days and specially last hours are a mass of contradictions.

[a700hitter]

Please sign him so that some posters can get the "I told you so" post.

:lol:Who would they be "telling so" to? In two polls that have been posted, TalkSox members have voted overwhelmingly that the Sox will be obtaining a starting pitcher before the season starts. In the more recent poll, the voting was almost unanimous-- there was only 1 "no" vote, And I think that was jacko.

[jung]

From the player perspective Jackson would likely believe it makes more sense to come to Boston on a 3 year deal than Oswalt coming to Boston on a one year deal. Jackson would be able to skip over 2013 where Oswalt appears fixated on having a good year somewhere and going back into the FA market in 2013.

 

The only monkey wrench there is if people start bidding Jackson up. The Sox don't appear much interested in engaging in a bidding war.

 

Maybe these reports of Floyd being the next guy in line for Boston are based on Boston determining that they have made the best offer they are going to make for Jackson and don't think that will get it done, whatever it is.

[iortiz]

:lol:Who would they be "telling so" to? In two polls that have been posted' date=' TalkSox members have voted overwhelmingly that the Sox will be obtaining a starting pitcher before the season starts. In the more recent poll, the voting was almost unanimous-- there was only 1 "no" vote, And I think that was jacko.[/quote']

 

Hell, when we traded Scutaro, I said, "Yes!, The SP is finally coming to Boston"... Then we signed Ross, and I said... "Even better" I was even more excited since I only expected the SP.

 

The problem is that the SP has not arrived yet, and every day that possibility has been reduced.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

:lol:Who would they be "telling so" to? In two polls that have been posted' date=' TalkSox members have voted overwhelmingly that the Sox will be obtaining a starting pitcher before the season starts. In the more recent poll, the voting was almost unanimous-- there was only 1 "no" vote, And I think that was jacko.[/quote']

 

Based on this thread a lot of people are now pessimistic about getting a pitcher. "y ben da boob give away scutaro and get no pitcha? He sucks! I'm a GM on da computer so I'm going to act lyk I can do a betta job!"

 

No one on this site would be perfect if they were a GM for the Red Sox. They need to stop making Ben the bad guy. With or without another SP we will do good. We won't fail if we don't get one. We did pretty damn good last year even with that horseface Lackey. He won't be around next season. We missed the playoffs off some ********.

 

If we sign Jackson, you'll see the told you so post.

[a700hitter]

From the player perspective Jackson would likely believe it makes more sense to come to Boston on a 3 year deal than Oswalt coming to Boston on a one year deal. Jackson would be able to skip over 2013 where Oswalt appears fixated on having a good year somewhere and going back into the FA market in 2013.

 

The only monkey wrench there is if people start bidding Jackson up. The Sox don't appear much interested in engaging in a bidding war.

 

Maybe these reports of Floyd being the next guy in line for Boston are based on Boston determining that they have made the best offer they are going to make for Jackson and don't think that will get it done, whatever it is.

But it seems that the Sox are only offering a 1 year deal for Jackson.

[SoxSport]

Didn't Duncan retire or take a leave of absence?

 

yes. Duncan took a year off because of his wife's health. He also has to be near retirement age.

 

I can't get excited about Oswalt or any of the other guys at this level of starter. They are just as well off with Bard and Aceves as starters, though I wonder about the BP and whether Bard might be needed there later on. Also, what happens if one of the top 3 starters goes down again.

[a700hitter]

Based on this thread a lot of people are now pessimistic about getting a pitcher. "y ben da boob give away scutaro and get no pitcha? He sucks! I'm a GM on da computer so I'm going to act lyk I can do a betta job!"

 

No one on this site would be perfect if they were a GM for the Red Sox. They need to stop making Ben the bad guy. With or without another SP we will do good. We won't fail if we don't get one. We did pretty damn good last year even with that horseface Lackey. He won't be around next season. We missed the playoffs off some ********.

 

If we sign Jackson, you'll see the told you so post.

Until yesterday, there was almost a unanimous opinion by posters that we would get a starter. The press reports since last night have been confusing and discouraging. Reading the press reports today, who do you think they will be getting... Oswalt, Jackson or someone else?

 

If there has been grousing on this board it is more about having dumped Scutaro without having the pitching deal in place and ready to go. Some people (myself included) just think that is not good planning. If we get a starting pitcher, I still will not think it was good planning.

[a700hitter]

yes. Duncan took a year off because of his wife's health. He also has to be near retirement age.

 

I can't get excited about Oswalt or any of the other guys at this level of starter. They are just as well off with Bard and Aceves as starters, though I wonder about the BP and whether Bard might be needed there later on. Also, what happens if one of the top 3 starters goes down again.

Oswalt is very good. He is not just rotation-filler.

[Elktonnick]

Until yesterday, there was almost a unanimous opinion by posters that we would get a starter. The press reports since last night have been confusing and discouraging. Reading the press reports today, who do you think they will be getting... Oswalt, Jackson or someone else?

 

If there has been grousing on this board it is more about having dumped Scutaro without having the pitching deal in place and ready to go. Some people (myself included) just think that is not good planning. If we get a starting pitcher, I still will not think it was good planning.

 

Trading Scuturo prior to obtaining a pitcher was bad planning. It was putting the cart before the horse. I was pleasantly surprised when Scut was traded because I mistakenly thought no GM would be that dumb to have made the move with the expressed purpose of getting a pitcher and then not get the pitcher. I was wrong.

[iortiz]

Well, since These guys (GMS/FO) are public characters, they are always in public scrutiny , it is part of his job; handle critics (good/bad) from media and fans. I think that nobody wants play the roll of a GM. I think that we (as fans) are only emitting opinions about our team. We are expressing our feelings and concerns. Some might sound pessimist, other optimist, other objective, other subjective, etc... In the end, the guys who will take the blame or the credit are the GM/FO/players. Some have said that Ben is only a puppet, some have said that he is who takes all the accountability of our baseball operations (At least he has said that publicly), some have said that he has Friedman's style, some that he has Theo's style, etc. etc. The true is that he is our current GM and seems like he is who is taking the decisions, as I said, he publicly has said that ("I am who signed BV, etc" ...)

 

The AL seems very competitive in the coming season. IMO We are very close to put a very competitive team. This missing SP is key to me. Right now we have huge question marks in our rotation, our BP is a mystery, CC and Kalish are between cottons and we have lost our everyday SS. IMO, right now, we are 5-6 seeded team in the AL (which means do not make the POs, sure, everything can change, it is a long season). A lot experts put us in that category, even a lot of polls in several web pages (espn, globe, televisa, tvc sports, etc).

 

Hopefully we sign this SP, if no, IMO, next season will be very tough for our team.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Well, since These guys (GMS/FO) are public characters, they are always in public scrutiny , it is part of his job; handle critics (good/bad) from media and fans. I think that nobody wants play the roll of a GM. I think that we (as fans) are only emitting opinions about our team. We are expressing our feelings and concerns. Some might sound pessimist, other optimist, other objective, other subjective, etc... In the end, the guys who will take the blame or the credit are the GM/FO/players. Some have said that Ben is only a puppet, some have said that he is who take all the accountability of our baseball operations (At least he has said that publicly), some have said that he has Friedman's style, some that he has Theo's style, etc. etc. The true is that he is our current GM and seems like he is who is taking the decisions, as I said, he publicly has said that ("I am who signed BV, etc" ...)

 

The AL seems very competitive in the coming season. IMO We are very close to put a very competitive team. This missing SP is key to me. Right now we have huge question marks in our rotation, our BP is a mystery, CC and Kalish are between cottons and we have lost our everyday SS. IMO, right now, we are 5-6 seeded team in the AL (which means do not make the POs, sure, everything can change, it is a long season). A lot experts put us in that category, even a lot of polls in several web pages (espn, globe, televisa, tvc sports, etc).

 

Hopefully we sign this SP, if no, IMO, next season will be very tough for our team.

 

Why?

[iortiz]

Why?

 

Right now we have huge question marks in our rotation, our BP is a mystery, CC and Kalish are between cottons and we have lost our everyday SS

[a700hitter]

Hopefully we sign this SP, if no, IMO, next season will be very tough for our team.

If they go into the season with two converted relievers in the starting rotation they will be taking a big big risk. As far as starting pitching goes, these two guys are rookies. Two rookies in the rotation in the AL East is tough. The Yankees did it one time and missed the playoffs for the first and ony time since 1994. Hughes and Kennedy were very highly thought of with excellent minor league track records as starters. Aceves and Bard don't have any record of success as starters at any professional level. For people to think that they will be just fine going into the season with Bad and Aceves as starters and no starting depth if something goes wrong (and something always goes wrong) is wishful thinking. Maybe it turns out okay. Maybe Carlos Silva went to Bartolo Colon's doctor and he wins 15 games. Maybe Doubront steps up and becomes a solid rotation pitcher throwing 180 innings. Are these things probable? Answer that for yourselves.

[a700hitter]

Trading Scuturo prior to obtaining a pitcher was bad planning. It was putting the cart before the horse. I was pleasantly surprised when Scut was traded because I mistakenly thought no GM would be that dumb to have made the move with the expressed purpose of getting a pitcher and then not get the pitcher. I was wrong.

For about two weeks we heard that the Red Sox needed to pare payroll if they wanted to add a pitcher. We were all wondering who they could trade. Then they trade/salary dump Scutaro and we are told that it is to free up payroll to get a pitcher. Still no pitcher, and the press is indicating that available pitchers will be going elsewhere.

[iortiz]

If they go into the season with two converted relievers in the starting rotation they will be taking a big big risk. As far as starting pitching goes' date=' these two guys are rookies. Two rookies in the rotation in the AL East is tough. The Yankees did it one time and missed the playoffs for the first and ony time since 1994. Hughes and Kennedy were very highly thought of with excellent minor league track records as starters. Aceves and Bard don't have any record of success as starters at any professional level. For people to think that they will be just fine going into the season with Bad and Aceves as starters and no starting depth if something goes wrong (and something always goes wrong) is wishful thinking. Maybe it turns out okay. Maybe Carlos Silva went to Bartolo Colon's doctor and he wins 15 games. Maybe Doubront steps up and becomes a solid rotation pitcher throwing 180 innings. Are these things probable? Answer that for yourselves.[/quote']

 

Yup, Go with Bard or Aceves is ok but no the optimal, since we lost our ace closer, but we could handle it. On the other hand, go with Aceves and Bard will be a huge, huge risk IMO.

[iortiz]

SATURDAY,1:39pm: The Cardinals insist that there's no deal in place with Oswalt, according to Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (via Twitter). General Manager John Mozeliak also denied that the club is near a deal with Oswalt, writes Matthew Leach of MLB.com.

[iortiz]

hahahaha, As I said, all these wires/news/reports are a mass of contradictions...

[Bellhorn04]

Trading Scuturo prior to obtaining a pitcher was bad planning. It was putting the cart before the horse. I was pleasantly surprised when Scut was traded because I mistakenly thought no GM would be that dumb to have made the move with the expressed purpose of getting a pitcher and then not get the pitcher. I was wrong.

 

With all due respect, nick, maybe Colorado was the only team that had expressed any interest in trading for Scutaro. Maybe they weren't interested in waiting around for another week or two while the Sox tried to land their pitcher. Maybe this was the only window to do that deal. There are things that can't be controlled.

[Elktonnick]

If they go into the season with two converted relievers in the starting rotation they will be taking a big big risk. As far as starting pitching goes' date=' these two guys are rookies. Two rookies in the rotation in the AL East is tough. The Yankees did it one time and missed the playoffs for the first and ony time since 1994. Hughes and Kennedy were very highly thought of with excellent minor league track records as starters. Aceves and Bard don't have any record of success as starters at any professional level. For people to think that they will be just fine going into the season with Bad and Aceves as starters and no starting depth if something goes wrong (and something always goes wrong) is wishful thinking. Maybe it turns out okay. Maybe Carlos Silva went to Bartolo Colon's doctor and he wins 15 games. Maybe Doubront steps up and becomes a solid rotation pitcher throwing 180 innings. Are these things probable? Answer that for yourselves.[/quote']

 

Good point about the rotation now add that to the fact that the left side of the infield has question marks and may be weaker than a year ago. We hope Crawford has a comeback year but he has never looked comfortable playing left at Fenway.

 

Selig said today that the second wild card is certain this year. So that means winning the division is more important. Right now this team is a very low probability for beating the Yankees for the ALE title. Their chance of getting into the playoff as the second wild card is about fifty/fifty at best. It could change if they make some smart moves betweern now and the trade deadline but everything has got to break right for them to have a realistic chance at doing anything this year. And what is the chance of that happening?

[example1]

The way it looks now there are plenty of experienced MLB starters for the 5 spot, between Cook, silva, Padilla, etc your concerns about rookies starting won't materialize unless Aceves does very well in ST.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

But last year we were missing Buchholz for a good amount of time. We had Lackey with a 6.41 ERA going 12-12 and we had Dice-K before he got injured. We keep throwing out s*** to the mound(Wakefield, Miller, Morales, Weiland). We were ranked 22 in pitching.

 

Last year we had basically the best offense even with the performance of players like Darnell McDonald, Drew Sutton, Jed Lowrie, J.D Drew, Mike Cameron(before he left to the Marlins), Crawford(f*** all of you who call him a bust. He will perform much better this year).

 

We started off the season like 2-10 and once we got on top we led the AL for a while. It was September that f***ed us up.

 

I like Scutaro and yes SS is a concern but you really think his absence will make much of a difference on the team? I don't think so.

 

People need to stop acting like we will be in 5th place if we don't acquire a pitcher. Yes it would benefit us but we won't collapse if we don't get anyone.

 

@IOrtiz

 

WE MISSED THE PLAYOFFS BY ONE GAME.

 

Do you know how rare it is for a team like the Red Sox to blow a lead like that?

[a700hitter]

With all due respect' date=' nick, maybe Colorado was the only team that had expressed any interest in trading for Scutaro. Maybe they weren't interested in waiting around for another week or two while the Sox tried to land their pitcher. Maybe this was the only window to do that deal. There are things that can't be controlled.[/quote']What stopped the Sox from getting the pitching deal in place before the Scutaro deal went down? It is the middle of January, so they have had plenty of time.

[iortiz]

With all due respect' date=' nick, maybe Colorado was the only team that had expressed any interest in trading for Scutaro. Maybe they weren't interested in waiting around for another week or two while the Sox tried to land their pitcher. Maybe this was the only window to do that deal. There are things that can't be controlled.[/quote']

 

Good point, but IMO you do not risk your everyday SS (300) like this. You need more guarantees like a pre-agreement or something. I'm not comfortable with this Risk/reward scenario, if true, of course.

[Palodios]

With all due respect' date=' nick, maybe Colorado was the only team that had expressed any interest in trading for Scutaro. Maybe they weren't interested in waiting around for another week or two while the Sox tried to land their pitcher. Maybe this was the only window to do that deal. There are things that can't be controlled.[/quote']

 

Other teams have been looking for shortstops as well. It isn't like there is a wealth of talent at the position, and Scutaro is affordable for just about all teams.

[jung]

The whole process with Jackson seems ass backwards. Jackson has apparently said that "he would take a 1 year deal with the Red Sox" but I guess that does not mean that the Sox have offered him a one year deal. In fact it may be more likely at this point that they have not offered him anything.Maybe he made that comment before he had multiple 3 year deals in front of him. I don't think anybody has identified the teams that have put 3 year deals on front of Jackson.

[a700hitter]

The way it looks now there are plenty of experienced MLB starters for the 5 spot' date=' between Cook, silva, Padilla, etc your concerns about rookies starting won't materialize unless Aceves does very well in ST.[/quote']Do you really have any optimism about Cook, Silva or Padilla holding down a rotation spot for the season? I don't

[a700hitter]

Other teams have been looking for shortstops as well. It isn't like there is a wealth of talent at the position' date=' and Scutaro is affordable for just about all teams.[/quote']... and we essentially gave him away. We really didn't get any talent in return.

[example1]

For about two weeks we heard that the Red Sox needed to pare payroll if they wanted to add a pitcher. We were all wondering who they could trade. Then they trade/salary dump Scutaro and we are told that it is to free up payroll to get a pitcher. Still no pitcher' date=' and the press is indicating that available pitchers will be going elsewhere.[/quote']

 

Did the FO actually say what they were going to do with Scutaros money? No. Everyone made assumptions. When the expectations didn't materialize the fallback position is that the FO is inept.

 

Here's how I see it, possibly: Sox free up money to get an OF they believed they needed. This also gave them the money they could use to address pitching. Oswalt, thinking hard about what he wants, realizes he doesn't want to pitch in the northeast, or AL, or on a one year deal if he has to pitch in the NE. Edwin Jackson's agent continues to hold out for multi year deal but might sign one year deal in Boston if other options suck. Trading for Floyd or Wandy remains a possibility. The Sox see all scenarios as relatively similar and are willing to see which route plays itself out rather than overpaying to force one route over another.

[iortiz]

But last year we were missing Buchholz for a good amount of time. We had Lackey with a 6.41 ERA going 12-12 and we had Dice-K before he got injured. We keep throwing out s*** to the mound(Wakefield, Miller, Morales, Weiland). We were ranked 22 in pitching.

 

Last year we had basically the best offense even with the performance of players like Darnell McDonald, Drew Sutton, Jed Lowrie, J.D Drew, Mike Cameron(before he left to the Marlins), Crawford(f*** all of you who call him a bust. He will perform much better this year).

 

We started off the season like 2-10 and once we got on top we led the AL for a while. It was September that f***ed us up.

 

I like Scutaro and yes SS is a concern but you really think his absence will make much of a difference on the team? I don't think so.

 

People need to stop acting like we will be in 5th place if we don't acquire a pitcher. Yes it would benefit us but we won't collapse if we don't get anyone.

 

@IOrtiz

 

WE MISSED THE PLAYOFFS BY ONE GAME.

 

Do you know how rare it is for a team like the Red Sox to blow a lead like that?

 

As I said, this is all about opinion and perspective Mike.

 

Right now, Do you think that we are above NY, DET, TEX, LAA and TB? I see our team seeded as 5-6. If we bring the SP, you will impact both rotation and BP. With this improvement we could be #4 or even #3, with a lot more chances to make the POs. As I said, the AL on paper will be even more competitive next season and 1-3 wins could mark the difference in order to make the POs IMO.