2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

I don't know why you get a bug up your keester when I use my nicknames. I told you I wouldn't use Blunder and FrancoMa any more and I have kept my promise there. Besides' date=' I know of some people who like my nicknames and I have used them on many boards. As for working hard on Kuroda, WEEI has just shot down that rumor. No, I won't throw myself off the 12th floor, but I wonder about those two or three guys on this board who actually doubted if I was really a Red So fan. Their faces must be as red as your ass is right now over my nicknames. Relax my friend, it's all in fun and it helps me break the tension. BTW, keep me informed if you hear the Kuroda thing coming alive again. He is one pitcher who can help us.[/quote']

 

They don't bother me that much, it's just that "The King" likes them.

[iortiz]

It looks like it's another slow news day on the Red Sox Hot Stove front. Come on Ben' date=' do something. You are starting to remind me of a friend of mine who will go back and forth between 2 auto dealers in negotiations for weeks to save $50 on a $20,000 + car. It's so pointless.[/quote']

 

Seems like Kuroda is out of the list. Garza seems to go to Detroit. What remains? Oswalt and Jackson. We'll see.

[jung]

What did WEEI say about Kuroda? Did they say he is signing with somebody else or that Sox are not at all close? What was it that basically took the earlier story 180* the other way?

[iortiz]

What did WEEI say about Kuroda? Did they say he is signing with somebody else or that Sox are not at all close? What was it that basically took the earlier story 180* the other way?

 

According to a major league source, a report from ESPN's Jim Bowden suggesting that the Red Sox are "closing in on a short-term deal" with free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda is inaccurate, with another source suggesting that such a claim was "baseless."

 

That assessment came in response to the following from Bowden:

 

The Boston Red Sox appear to be closing in on a short-term deal with right-hander Hiroki Kuroda to add him to a rotation that already has Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard. This move, along with the trades for relievers Mark Melancon and Andrew Bailey, quickly puts the Red Sox back among the AL’s elite. Kuroda is extremely underrated for the valuable innings he can provide from the back of a rotation.

 

However, the sources suggested that such a portrayal of Sox talks with Kuroda was inaccurate.

 

The Red Sox, who thus far this offseason have agreed to minor league deals with Carlos Silva and Aaron Cook (Cook's deal is not yet official, pending a physical), continue to explore the acquisition cost of virtually every starter who is available in free agency or trades. However, one source said that there is "nothing close" in terms of adding another starter for the back of the rotation, where the Sox currently have numerous candidates -- including Silva, Cook, Daniel Bard, Alfredo Aceves, Felix Doubront and Andrew Miller -- who will enter spring training in competition for the final two spots in the rotation behind Jon Lester, Josh Beckett and Clay Buchholz.

 

Kuroda, the 36-year-old right-hander from Japan who has a 3.45 ERA in four seasons with the Dodgers, is one of the pitchers with whom the Sox have been talking this offseason, but the team has been consistent in suggesting that it would only be able to acquire him if either his cost drops or if the team is able to shed payroll elsewhere. That said, because Kuroda has been healthy and consistent and seeks only a short-term contract, he certainly represents one of the most -- if not the most -- attractive options on the market.

[jung]

OK, I just found the thing at the WEEI web site. I guess they are saying that they are not close and that the earlier story was baseless.

 

I did read in the same piece something I had not read before. While I had seen where the Sox had claimed to be waiting and hoping that Kuroda's price would come down the other comment attributed to the Sox was that "they would have to shed payroll elsewhere" to consider him. That sort of puts more bite into concerns that the Sox are looking for the remaining guys to really drop in price. If they are already talking about having to shed payroll elsewhere then they definitely have an upper limit in mind for spending and they are very close to it right now.

 

Thanks iortiz. I must have been reading it at WEEI as you were posting it.

[iortiz]

OK, I just found the thing at the WEEI web site. I guess they are saying that they are not close and that the earlier story was baseless.

 

I did read in the same piece something I had not read before. While I had seen where the Sox had claimed to be waiting and hoping that Kuroda's price would come down the other comment attributed to the Sox was that "they would have to shed payroll elsewhere" to consider him. That sort of puts more bite into concerns that the Sox are looking for the remaining guys to really drop in price. If they are already talking about having to shed payroll elsewhere then they definitely have an upper limit in mind for spending and they are very close to it right now.

 

Thanks iortiz. I must have been reading it at WEEI as you were posting it.

 

You're welcome Jung.

 

If this true (Kuroda out of the list), I don't see Boston giving Jackson a 5yr-contract. Oswalt surly is asking something around Kuroda's money/year. Madsen is the other option, but I don't want to see him as a starter.

 

If they make a move, now is the moment. Remember that NY needs a pitcher too. The money won't be an issue for them, and Kuroda seems to be the best option out there.

[jung]

The latest on Oswalt was that he has been peddling himself as available for a 1 year contract but at $10M plus. If he is bargaining from there I don't think he falls into range for the Sox. That has been my opinion for a long time now. I don't think the three guys left fall far enough for the Sox...hence whatever they get for a SP has to come by way of trade.

 

I would absolutely go nuts if the Sox gave Jackson or anything like Jackson 5 years or maybe even 3 years. I guess 3 years would be OK. This is the one truly outrageous side of contract negotiation in MLB these days. The terms are so long you are just about giving money away in that last year of any of these contracts.

[Palodios]

Dear Kuroda,

 

Please come to Boston

 

Sincerely, your pal Pal.

[a700hitter]

Dear Kuroda,

 

Please come to Boston

 

Sincerely, your pal Pal.

This type of thing has been known to work.

[VA Sox Fan]

Dear Kuroda,

 

Please come to Boston

 

Sincerely, your pal Pal.

 

That could be sweet

[Palodios]

This type of thing has been known to work.

 

Its actually pretty common for a free agent to check out a potential team's fansites, in order to figure out what the fans are like, and what the environment will be like before he makes a decision. Especially the ones who don't speak English very well

[FredLynn]

Dear Kuroda,

 

Please come to Boston. Please understand that we have a budget to follow and will be unable to pay you a penny for this year's work; we are sure you will understand and give us deserving Red Sox fans the "bro deal". While you are at it, could you get your buddy Oswalt to tag along with you?

 

Sincerely, your pal Pal.

 

 

 

Fixed.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox are going to sign one of these 'name' starters, I'm pretty sure of it now. They're not too happy about another chunk of money going out the door, but they know they can't go into the season like this from a baseball standpoint or a PR one.

[Palodios]

Fixed.

 

I wrote a post about this yesterday. The Red Sox don't have the money to give him a 15 million dollar deal. They're probably budgeting 8-10 million, and hoping that will be enough to land one of Kuroda/Oswalt/Madson. That is on the low end of what those guys want, but not completely out of the question-- that's where lies the conflict. The front office needs to get one of those guys to accept a contract of that size. There would be absolutely, and utterly no way that they would be in the running for any of those pitchers unless they had atleast 8 million to spend. No way.

[iortiz]

I wrote a post about this yesterday. The Red Sox don't have the money to give him a 15 million dollar deal. They're probably budgeting 8-10 million' date=' and hoping that will be enough to land one of Kuroda/Oswalt/Madson. That is on the low end of what those guys want, but not completely out of the question-- that's where lies the conflict. The front office needs to get one of those guys to accept a contract of that size. There would be absolutely, and utterly no way that they would be in the running for any of those pitchers unless they had atleast 8 million to spend. No way.[/quote']

 

When you say that they have budgeted 8-10 M, you mean under the cap?

[Palodios]

When you say that they have budgeted 8-10 M' date=' you mean under the cap?[/quote']

 

Last I checked, its 6-8 million over the cap.

[FredLynn]

I wrote a post about this yesterday. The Red Sox don't have the money to give him a 15 million dollar deal. They're probably budgeting 8-10 million' date=' and hoping that will be enough to land one of Kuroda/Oswalt/Madson. That is on the low end of what those guys want, but not completely out of the question-- that's where lies the conflict. The front office needs to get one of those guys to accept a contract of that size. There would be absolutely, and utterly no way that they would be in the running for any of those pitchers unless they had atleast 8 million to spend. No way.[/quote']

 

IF that were to happen that would give us a reasonable shot at making a run this year. All those other stiffs they signed are essentially #6 SPs. Of course, we also need at least one more good arm in the pen.

If, in fact, we are already over the cap, why not just go more over the cap. I had hoped to stay under it, but regardless of how much over it we are, they still have to pay an obscene tax rate next year if they again exceed it.

[iortiz]

IF that were to happen that would give us a reasonable shot at making a run this year. All those other stiffs they signed are essentially #6 SPs. Of course, we also need at least one more good arm in the pen.

If, in fact, we are already over the cap, why not just go more over the cap. I had hoped to stay under it, but regardless of how much over it we are, they still have to pay an obscene tax rate next year if they again exceed it.

 

Wait... are we already 6-8 over the cap? I thought that we were under the cap.

 

If we are already over the cap I'll sign Madsen (+- 10M/3yrs) and Kuroda (12 M/1Y), right away.

[Bellhorn04]

Wait... are we already 6-8 over the cap? I thought that we were under the cap.

 

If we are already over the cap I'll sign Madsen (+- 10M/3yrs) and Kuroda (12 M/1Y), right away.

 

Anything over the cap this year costs them 140% of the regular price, though, right? So it stings.

[Palodios]

Wait... are we already 6-8 over the cap? I thought that we were under the cap.

 

If we are already over the cap I'll sign Madsen (+- 10M/3yrs) and Kuroda (12 M/1Y), right away.

 

From my estimations, this team is 1-2 million under currently. If they go over the cap, they will likely exercise Lackey's option, which will actually save them about 1.2 million.

[iortiz]

From my estimations' date=' this team is 1-2 million under currently. If they go over the cap, they will likely exercise Lackey's option, which will actually save them about 1.2 million.[/quote']

 

Ok. Then... there are 3 options.

 

1. Stay like this and wish that our top 3 stay healthy and Bard performs well as a SP. In this scenario, the 5th spot still a mystery to me. This scenario is unlikely.

 

2. Do not go over the cap and bring the SP via trade. This scenario is unlikely too.

 

3. Go over the Cap and sign at least a SP and probably another BP arm since Jenks is likely out again.

 

So... I'm not sure what are we waiting for if the option is the #3 anyway.

[win red sox]

Ohhh... are we already 6-8 over the cap? I thought that we were under the cap.

 

If we are already over the cap I'll sign Madsen (+- 10M/3yrs) and Kuroda (12 M/1Y).

 

I assume that we have to be in on both of them, The sox would lose a lot more than the 5 million in luxury tax money if they start slow and ratings drop. Next year we should be under the cap considerably with Dice K 10m, Jenks 6m, Ortiz 15m, Miller 1m, Albers 1m, Scutaro 6m and possibly Youkilis 13m. Most of these players could be replaced via the farm system, which should keep us way under the cap and plus 2014 I think the cap goes up to 189m. I think Ben is looking for 1 year deal for innings eater, and Kuroda matches that perfectly.

[iortiz]

I assume that we have to be in on both of them' date=' The sox would lose a lot more than the 5 million in luxury tax money if they start slow and ratings drop. Next year we should be under the cap considerably with Dice K 10m, Jenks 6m, Ortiz 15m, Miller 1m, Albers 1m, Scutaro 6m and possibly Youkilis 13m. Most of these players could be replaced via the farm system, which should keep us way under the cap and plus 2014 I think the cap goes up to 189m. I think Ben is looking for 1 year deal for innings eater, and Kuroda matches that perfectly.[/quote']

 

Totally Agree. would you sign Madsen too?

 

if you sign Madsen too, he will help you a lot next season and won't hurt this team in the future at a reasonable price, of course.

 

BTW if those players walk you will have 50 MUSD to play with in 2013

[win red sox]

Totally Agree. would you sign Madsen too?

 

if you sign Madsen too, he will help you a lot next season and won't hurt this team in the future at a reasonable price, of course.

 

If you can get Madson for 3/30 and maybe an option year that would be a steal, the only problem I see is if he is willing to setup.

[FredLynn]

Anything over the cap this year costs them 140% of the regular price' date=' though, right? So it stings.[/quote']

 

I thought that was the rate for NEXT year if they exceed the cap THIS year.

[FredLynn]

Ok. Then... there are 3 options.

 

1. Stay like this and wish that our top 3 stay healthy and Bard performs well as a SP. In this scenario, the 5th spot still a mystery to me. This scenario is unlikely.

 

2. Do not go over the cap and bring the SP via trade. This scenario is unlikely too.

 

3. Go over the Cap and sign at least a SP and probably another BP arm since Jenks is likely out again.

 

So... I'm not sure what are we waiting for if the option is the #3 anyway.

 

Because if we are under the cap the owners are seriously considering staying there this year. Any FA signed next year would be taxed at, I believe, 140%. And there will be lots of good SP available. No, they are not ALL going to sign extensions with their clubs. This is what I would prefer. I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we go for broke this year.

[iortiz]

If you can get Madson for 3/30 and maybe an option year that would be a steal' date=' the only problem I see is if he is willing to setup.[/quote']

 

You mean as your 8th man? I'll give him the closer spot. Give Bailey the setup spot and Aceves and Melancon the 7th. That will be an elite Pen, if you ask me.

[win red sox]

You mean as your 8th man? I'll give him the closer spot. Give Bailey the setup spot and Aceves and Melancon the 7th. That will be an elite Pen' date=' if you ask me.[/quote']

 

I guess it doesn't matter, the reds just signed Madson.

[iortiz]

Because if we are under the cap the owners are seriously considering staying there this year. Any FA signed next year would be taxed at' date=' I believe, 140%. And there will be lots of good SP available. No, they are not ALL going to sign extensions with their clubs. This is what I would prefer. I think we would be shooting ourselves in the foot if we go for broke this year.[/quote']

 

Then... The option is the #1 which I don't like it. We have spent 3 years without winning a single PO game my friend. 4 years in a row would be very tough.

[iortiz]

I guess it doesn't matter' date=' the reds just signed Madson.[/quote']

 

Wow!