2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

So, yes, he is, and, yes, I think it can be used to rebuild a team. I don't think he will change his philosophy from the success he had in Boston. I think they will focus on player development/drafting, rebuilding the minor league system, finding value on the FA market, and making targeted big contract acquisitions. I don't think those targeted acquisitions are likely in this first year of the process. Right now, the moves they are making look like short-term stop-gaps.

 

Bingo. I agree with you ORS.

 

IMO he has already started the process and have used this approach in order to fill some positions. On the other hand and as I said, maybe he will be more cautious at FA. Seems like he has been, thus far (at FA).

[ORS]

...and your point is that you like to argue over things that people didn't say by making a continuation of what they meant based on your logical interpretation' date=' and you will continue to argue the so-called implication that was never stated but rather was deduced by your logic despite a clear statement by the other person that they meant something else? That sounds unduly argumentative. That can't be the case. Can it?[/quote']

What are you babbling about?

 

Iortiz has acknowledged that his moneyball comment opened the door for the side discussion, intended or not.

 

Furthermore, in response to me correcting you for inaccurately stating that people were saying the Cubs would abandon moneyball, you said this....

 

But Theo is a Moneyballer and it sure looks the Cubs are going to suck worse in 2012 than 2011 after a bunch of moves by Theo.

 

In all reality, this is a non-response, since you didn't address the correction I made. However, do you really not see the implied meaning here? Why don't you come out and tell us what you meant? All signs point to a defense of what Iortiz said orginally, that moneyball is srewing the Cubs up farther. If that wasn't what you meant, you sure have a funny way of stating whatever it was you did mean.

[a700hitter]

What are you babbling about?

 

Iortiz has acknowledged that his moneyball comment opened the door for the side discussion, intended or not.

 

Furthermore, in response to me correcting you for inaccurately stating that people were saying the Cubs would abandon moneyball, you said this....

 

 

 

In all reality, this is a non-response, since you didn't address the correction I made. However, do you really not see the implied meaning here? Why don't you come out and tell us what you meant? All signs point to a defense of what Iortiz said orginally, that moneyball is srewing the Cubs up farther. If that wasn't what you meant, you sure have a funny way of stating whatever it was you did mean.

Wow, talk about nonresponsive babble? I am glad to see that your sense of humor remains intact.

[ORS]

Wow' date=' talk about nonresponsive babble? I am glad to see that your sense of humor remains intact.[/quote']

I'd quit too if I were you.

[iortiz]

What are you babbling about?

 

Iortiz has acknowledged that his moneyball comment opened the door for the side discussion, intended or not.

 

Furthermore, in response to me correcting you for inaccurately stating that people were saying the Cubs would abandon moneyball, you said this....

 

 

 

In all reality, this is a non-response, since you didn't address the correction I made. However, do you really not see the implied meaning here? Why don't you come out and tell us what you meant? All signs point to a defense of what Iortiz said orginally, that moneyball is srewing the Cubs up farther. If that wasn't what you meant, you sure have a funny way of stating whatever it was you did mean.

 

I think that all of us should move on.

 

As A700 and I said, Cubs won't go anywhere like this. You and others say that they are in rebuild mode, fine. I said that they are using some "moneyball" concepts to fill some positions in order to face 2012 season and maybe beyond. You say that all their moves looks like short-term stop-gaps, fine. It's all about opinion. No big deal.

[a700hitter]

I'd quit too if I were you.

Honestly, I don't have a clue what point(s) you are trying to make, and it doesn't interest me enough to try to figure it out. I made an attempt a few posts ago, but you refused to answer my questions.:dunno: If you you won't answer my questions, I can't make you.

[User Name]

It is as obvious as the fact that water is wet that the Cubs have no designs on contending in 2012 and are rather plugging holes in order to field "a team" in 2012. The Cubs are focused on the long-term because there is no logical way for them to build a contender for next season. There's nothing to see here, folks, move on. This has nothing to do with "Moneyball" as a concept.

[a700hitter]

I think that all of us should move on.

 

As A700 and I said, Cubs won't go anywhere like this. You and others say that they are in rebuild mode, fine. I said that they are using some "moneyball" concepts to fill some positions in order to face 2012 season and maybe beyond. You say that all their moves looks like short-term stop-gaps, fine. It's all about opinion. No big deal.

We said this right out of the box, and I believe we said it very clearly. If others want to prove false something that is irrelevant , they apparently cannot be dissuaded from doing so.

[seabeachfred]

Not sure if this was posted yet' date=' but the source is MLBTR. I honestly don't know much about Germano other than the stats I found on him. I don't recall watching him personally ever pitch. You can add another name to that list of cheap pitchers that are going to be competing for a spot in Spring Training. I feel like with Silva, Miller, Carlson, Cook, Haeger, and now Germano that we have too many depth guys. I think we have enough of these guys already. We have enough cheap SP, now we need to focus on signing someone who will actually be able to start in the #4 spot for us. I am not sure if we are planning on having Germano compete for the bullpen or rotation. He has done both in his career. Back in '07 he started 23 games for the Padres, finished the year with a 4.46 ERA and a 1.298 WHIP. Back in '10 he pitched 22 games for the Guardians out of the pen, finished with a 3.31 ERA and 0.991 WHIP. He obviously has played other years, but those are his two years that he had some significant time in the majors. He has been inconsistent throughout his career, with showing glimpses that he could be a decent pitcher. Not sure what his stats were like last year with the Samsung Lions. All I can say is that this is just another cheap pickup with the potential to add depth to our pen or rotation.[/quote']

 

Justin GERMANO????????? I don't know whether to cry, heave up my lunch or start shouting Deutschland Uber Alles. I mean, has Cherington really gone off the deep end? Now we have Deutschland Justin, Millbum, Hi Ho Silva, Short Order Cook and Haeger Slacks. Way to go Cherries. Come on guys, it's time we see things for what they are because this is getting to be one sad farce. Maybe Cherries is thinking if we sign enough of these stiffs maybe one or even two might catch fire. Who really wants to bet on that?

 

All I can say from where I sit is that Beckett, Lester and Buchholz had better come to camp in tip-top shape and stay healthy this whole year because they're going to have to pitch their collective asses off if we are to make any kind of move. My guess is that they will move either Bard or Aceves back to the pen and try one of these dorks in the rotation. I'm waiting with baited breath for the next gem Benny the Boob signs up.

[User Name]

fred, seriously with the f***ing nicknames?

 

Also, the Sox appear to be working hard on Kuroda. I wonder, if they sign him, will you calm the f*** down before you throw yourself off a 12th floor?

[a700hitter]

Justin GERMANO????????? I don't know whether to cry, heave up my lunch or start shouting Deutschland Uber Alles. I mean, has Cherington really gone off the deep end? Now we have Deutschland Justin, Millbum, Hi Ho Silva, Short Order Cook and Haeger Slacks. Way to go Cherries. Come on guys, it's time we see things for what they are because this is getting to be one sad farce. Maybe Cherries is thinking if we sign enough of these stiffs maybe one or even two might catch fire. Who really wants to bet on that?

 

All I can say from where I sit is that Beckett, Lester and Buchholz had better come to camp in tip-top shape and stay healthy this whole year because they're going to have to pitch their collective asses off if we are to make any kind of move. My guess is that they will move either Bard or Aceves back to the pen and try one of these dorks in the rotation. I'm waiting with baited breath for the next gem Benny the Boob signs up.

We had better get the big 3 under the care of Batolo's magic fat injection doctor.

[seabeachfred]

You are arguing the meaning of the term "Moneyball" which is not really relevant to iortiz's post. Whether Theo is employing a Moneyball philosophy with the Cubs or not' date=' it looks pretty likely that the Cubs will be playing Shitball on the field next season.[/quote']

 

If we don't get a decent No. 4 starter and another quality reliever we may be plahing some shitball ourselves. Oh that's right 700, we just signed Deutschland Justin; things should go swimmingly now.

[iortiz]

We said this right out of the box' date=' and I believe we said it very clearly. If others want to prove false something that is irrelevant , they apparently cannot be dissuaded from doing so.[/quote']

 

When I saw "Paul Maholm ---> Cubs" I said, Thanks God he won't come to Boston, then I thought The Cubs won't go anywhere next season making trades like this and I posted. Seems like the moneyball comment was more relevant.

 

Still I believe that Paul Maholm was a moneyball move.

[User Name]

Still I believe that Paul Maholm was a moneyball move.

 

And this is where the use of the term is incorrect and the discussion goes on a tangent. Maholm is not a "moneyball" acquisition. He's a cheap starter for a team in rebuilding mode.

[iortiz]

And this is where the use of the term is incorrect and the discussion goes on a tangent. Maholm is not a "moneyball" acquisition. He's a cheap starter for a team in rebuilding mode.

 

 

where's your sense of humor? Cmon!

[seabeachfred]

Yup.

 

If they read carefully the discussion about the Cubs, it starts when you posted "Cubs To Sign Paul Maholm". I don't like Maholm. I don't like how the Cubs are going to face next season. That is the substance of my point and the whole thing. If they disagree or want to believe other thing, is up to them.

 

Aw, f*** the Cubs. Who really gives a rat's ass about them anyway? OK, I enjoy reading these posts telling me how crappy they're going to be this year and maybe next and it makes me feel good because of that a-hole who left our budget in disarray. We should keep in mind, though, that they could still make a move in that half-ass division they're in. The Cards lost Pujols and they're getting old, the Brewers lost Fielder and will lose Roids Ryan for 50 games, the Pirates are still horse dung, the Reds are always either hot or cold and the Astros belong in the Dominican or Rookie League. There are no Yankees or Rays or even Jays in that division and they could still fashion a winning record with the stiff that they will be playing.

[redsoxrules]

Exactly, They need to get rid of all their bad players and bad contracts and eventually make a huge splash or two to add the players who can put them over the top.

 

Jenks, Lackey, D-K and certainly Crawford (I think he will comeback, He better) are clogging your payroll in order to bring the SP and BP arms, aren't they?.

 

Its impossible to move crawford .

 

Jenks is done after this year and so is Dice K .

[User Name]

where's your sense of humor? Cmon!

 

That's my definition of a joke. What i was getting at was the initial tangent, not the smiley-faced comment in the last post. Should have made myself clear.

[a700hitter]

When I saw "Paul Maholm ---> Cubs" I said, Thanks God he won't come to Boston, then I thought The Cubs won't go anywhere next season making trades like this and I posted. Seems like the moneyball comment was more relevant.

 

Still I believe that Paul Maholm was a moneyball move.

Let's stay away from the hot-button term M_ _ _ y B _ _ l. It makes some people go off on a tangent. We are finally getting to the point where we can mention Theo and feel safe in our homes. Mentioning that other term and Theo in the same post is too much too soon for some.

[iortiz]

Aw' date=' f*** the Cubs. Who really gives a rat's ass about them anyway? OK, I enjoy reading these posts telling me how crappy they're going to be this year and maybe next and it makes me feel good because of that a-hole who left our budget in disarray. We should keep in mind, though, that they could still make a move in that half-ass division they're in. The Cards lost Pujols and they're getting old, the Brewers lost Fielder and will lose Roids Ryan for 50 games, the Pirates are still horse dung, the Reds are always either hot or cold and the Astros belong in the Dominican or Rookie League. There are no Yankees or Rays or even Jays in that division and they could still fashion a winning record with the stiff that they will be playing.[/quote']

 

Yeah, f*** the Cubs, They have been/are/probably will be horrible anyway.

[iortiz]

Its impossible to move crawford .

 

Jenks is done after this year and so is Dice K .

 

Yup, Reason why Pumpsie's theory could make sense if we do not sign anyone else.

 

Nevertheless I will be pissed off if we don't make the POs, again.

[seabeachfred]

ESPN baseball analyst and former major league general manager Jim Bowden dropped this interesting nugget in his Bowden Bullets piece today:

 

 

The Boston Red Sox appear to be closing in on a short-term deal with right-hander Hiroki Kuroda to add him to a rotation that already has Jon Lester, Josh Beckett, Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard. This move, along with the trades for relievers Mark Melancon and Andrew Bailey, quickly puts the Red Sox back among the AL’s elite. Kuroda is extremely underrated for the valuable innings he can provide from the back of a rotation.

 

 

The durable Kuroda has made at least 30 starts for the Dodgers in four of the last five seasons, including the last two. He pitched a career-high 202 innings in 2011 with a career-best 3.07 ERA and 161 strikeouts.

 

ESPN Stats & Information guru Jeremy Lundblad also points out that Kuroda is one of only nine starting pitchers with a sub-3.80 ERA in each of the last four seasons. The others are CC Sabathia, Tim Lincecum, Cliff Lee, Felix Hernandez, Wandy Rodriguez, Roy Halladay and Matt Cain. Impressive company to be sure.

 

Kuroda is 36 years old, so a short-term deal might be exactly what the Red Sox are looking for here.

 

Stay tuned

 

 

This is just what the Red Sox need, hopefuly on a 1 year deal w/ a club option. With this addition it marks a signficant improval on last years 90 win team and maybe this also keeps Bard and Aceves in the pen. This would be a significant upgrade to the rotation and bullpen, I'm still hoping they can swing a deal for Harden.

 

Beckett

Lester

Kuroda

Buchholz

Harden

 

Bailey

Bard

Melancon

Aceves

Morales

Jenks/Miller/Bowden/Albers/Doubrant

 

Now this could work for us Win Sox. Kuroda is a decent pitcher who with any kind of offensive support can win you games. I live in the LA area and have seen this guy on TV many times. He usually is a very consistent pitcher, though, face it, he will be going up against tougher lineups over here if we sign him. As for Harden, I would take a flier on him as well and maybe return Aceves and Bard to the pen. I think that could make us serious contenders for the Al East Title this year. Finally, a rumor or two that makes one positive about his team. Of course, seeing is believing and I'll believe it when I see it.

[seabeachfred]

weei just shot down the Kuroda rumor.

 

Well Win, it was good while it lasted. Let's have a toast to Deutschland Justin, Short Oder Cook and Hi Ho Silva.

[iortiz]

Let's stay away from the hot-button term M_ _ _ y B _ _ l. It makes some people go off on a tangent. We are finally getting to the point where we can mention Theo and feel safe in our homes. Mentioning that other term and Theo in the same post is too much too soon for some.

 

 

I wonder if "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" term can be used partially (one or few positions) in order to rebuild a team. ORS said that you can use that approach in order to rebuild a team.

[seabeachfred]

fred, seriously with the f***ing nicknames?

 

Also, the Sox appear to be working hard on Kuroda. I wonder, if they sign him, will you calm the f*** down before you throw yourself off a 12th floor?

 

I don't know why you get a bug up your keester when I use my nicknames. I told you I wouldn't use Blunder and FrancoMa any more and I have kept my promise there. Besides, I know of some people who like my nicknames and I have used them on many boards. As for working hard on Kuroda, WEEI has just shot down that rumor. No, I won't throw myself off the 12th floor, but I wonder about those two or three guys on this board who actually doubted if I was really a Red So fan. Their faces must be as red as your ass is right now over my nicknames. Relax my friend, it's all in fun and it helps me break the tension. BTW, keep me informed if you hear the Kuroda thing coming alive again. He is one pitcher who can help us.

[a700hitter]

 

I wonder if "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" term can be used partially (one or few positions) in order to rebuild a team. ORS said that you can use that approach in order to rebuild a team.

I think the answer is that only the good moves are "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" moves. If they don't work out, they are definitely not "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l". I think you determine whether it is a "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" move based on the outcome.

[a700hitter]

I don't know why you get a bug up your keester when I use my nicknames. I told you I wouldn't use Blunder and FrancoMa any more and I have kept my promise there. Besides' date=' I know of some people who like my nicknames and I have used them on many boards. As for working hard on Kuroda, WEEI has just shot down that rumor. No, I won't throw myself off the 12th floor, but I wonder about those two or three guys on this board who actually doubted if I was really a Red So fan. Their faces must be as red as your ass is right now over my nicknames. Relax my friend, it's all in fun and it helps me break the tension. BTW, keep me informed if you hear the Kuroda thing coming alive again. He is one pitcher who can help us.[/quote']I like the nicknames. Keep at it.

[iortiz]

I think the answer is that only the good moves are "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" moves. If they don't work out' date=' they are definitely not "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l". I think you determine whether it is a "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" move based on the outcome. [/quote']

 

I see. Well, then The Cubs haven't made any "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" move yet.

[a700hitter]

I see. Well' date=' then The Cubs haven't made any "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" move yet. [/quote']It would appear that way, but we will not know until about mid-season. It was my mistake thinking that "M_ _ _ y B _ _ l" was a philosophy. It's apparently determined on a move by move basis. Who knew?

[a700hitter]

It looks like it's another slow news day on the Red Sox Hot Stove front. Come on Ben, do something. You are starting to remind me of a friend of mine who will go back and forth between 2 auto dealers in negotiations for weeks to save $50 on a $20,000 + car. It's so pointless.