2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

Losing Murphy was worth the risk when you are gunning for a WS.

[a700hitter]

Next task: go get Garza.

 

I suspect the rebuilding Cubs would take a deal that includes the Sox younger high level prospects like Cecchini, Coyle, Jacobs, maybe Raunado. At this point the sox should hold onto their higher end depth prospects like Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Wilson. They can and should open the taps on their younger guys for established (not old) talent.

Let me just say that if Theo trades Garza to the Yanks instead of the Red. Sox, Benny Boy had better have him arrested for trespassing the next time Theo uses a Fenway office when he is in town.

[jacksonianmarch]

If Garza is actually available, then I find it increasingly difficult for the sox to outbid the Yanks. Garza is exactly what the Yankees are looking for and they have the young pitching chips to make the move.

[SoxSport]

If Garza is actually available' date=' then I find it increasingly difficult for the sox to outbid the Yanks. Garza is exactly what the Yankees are looking for and they have the young pitching chips to make the move.[/quote']

 

But will Epstein deal to the Yankees over the Red Sox for a player? The answer will tell you something about how amicable Theo's departure was from Boston.

 

I think Garza is definitely in play--Theo knows the Red Sox farm system. And Kalish fits as part of a package--including Theo's compensation for shortening his sentence in Boston by one year.

[Meh]

But will Epstein deal to the Yankees over the Red Sox for a player? The answer will tell you something about how amicable Theo's departure was from Boston.

 

I think Garza is definitely in play--Theo knows the Red Sox farm system. And Kalish fits as part of a package--including Theo's compensation for shortening his sentence in Boston by one year.

 

Larry Luchiano is the reason why Theo will never trade with the Red Sox unless he trade rapes the deal. Look at how Larry acted like a baby during the compensation stuff and now the Sox ended up only getting a deal where Theo can't hire anyone from the Red Sox for three years.

[SoxSport]

Give me the Gagne trade again' date=' and I still do it every single time. There is no way they could have predicted him to have blown up like that.[/quote']

 

His numbers were way down the 2nd half that season in Texas before the trade. That was a warning sign that wasn't taken seriously. The Yankees gained 4 games in September vs the Sox just on blown saves by Gagne. 4 in a row. Tito tried real hard to make the Gagne trade look good. The other thing is Gagne was a known steroid user in his big years.

[SoxSport]

Larry Luchiano is the reason why Theo will never trade with the Red Sox unless he trade rapes the deal. Look at how Larry acted like a baby during the compensation stuff and now the Sox ended up only getting a deal where Theo can't hire anyone from the Red Sox for three years.

 

A lot of speculation here we don't really know about. But, as I said, Theo's willingness to deal with the Sox could provide a few clues.

[SoxSport]

Let me just say that if Theo trades Garza to the Yanks instead of the Red. Sox' date=' Benny Boy had better have him arrested for trespassing the next time Theo uses a Fenway office when he is in town.[/quote']

 

 

Benny Boy is leading a charmed life right now with the Bailey deal, which is being viewed in the media as a "steal" for the Sox.

 

The Yankees' main tradng chip is Montero, and I wonder if the Cubs would want him--he's DH material and they have a good catcher in Soto. The Sox have an up with Kalish, and may have enough pitching prospects (Renauldo?, for example) to do a deal. Plus they still have the Theo compensation issue, which could be part of the package.

 

What struck me was Ben's comments about the Bailey deal--he was talking like Sweeney would be in a platoon with Aviles or McDonald next year in RF--as a starter, not a reserve.That means Kalish might be a trade chip.

[a700hitter]

A lot of speculation here we don't really know about. But' date=' as I said, Theo's willingness to deal with the Sox could provide a few clues.[/quote']As far as the parting of the ways with the Sox, it couldn't have worked out better for Theo. He got a sweet promotion with an established big market team. Regardless of whether the Sox FO wanted to keep him, and some people do believe that they wanted to keep him, they did him a huge favor letting him walk now. If LL was such a vindictive SOB, he could have kept Theo for another season and if he crashed and burned, he could have let Theo take the heat and they would have parted ways after 2012 when the Cubs job was no longer available. LL has put himself on the line by letting Theo go 1 year early. If BC crashes and burns, LL will take the heat for the change. Theo has nothing to bitch about. The Sox and LL gave him a great spring board to a fantastic position with the Cubs at a very young age. He's president of the ball club at age 37.

[SoxSport]

As far as the parting of the ways with the Sox' date=' it couldn't have worked out better for Theo. He got a sweet promotion with an established big market team. Regardless of whether the Sox FO wanted to keep him, and some people do believe that they wanted to keep him, they did him a huge favor letting him walk now. If LL was such a vindictive SOB, he could have kept Theo for another season and if he crashed and burned, he could have let Theo take the heat and they would have parted ways after 2012 when the Cubs job was no longer available. LL has put himself on the line by letting Theo go 1 year early. If BC crashes and burns, LL will take the heat for the change. Theo has nothing to bitch about. The Sox and LL gave him a great spring board to a fantastic position with the Cubs at a very young age. He's president of the ball club at age 37.[/quote']

 

Agreed. So far, Ben is coming up roses. And Epstein owes the Red Sox for a promotion.

[a700hitter]

What struck me was Ben's comments about the Bailey deal--he was talking like Sweeney would be in a platoon with Aviles or McDonald next year in RF--as a starter, not a reserve.That means Kalish might be a trade chip.

That was an interesting comment by Benny. He does seem to telegraph his punches a bit. If you read his comments on Papelbon, you had to know there was no chance he was coming back. During the Winter meetings, he basicall said that he wouldn't make any moves and he didn't. He said that his moves would come down the road and some would be under the radar. Melancon was definitely under the radar. Based on his statement about Sweeney and the omission of Kalish, I would have to think Kalish is going somewhere.

[Spudboy]

Everyone seems to have a boner for Garza (or as I call him "The Expectorater"). Whatever. I hope we don't loose Kalish. He is just too dammed athletic with what I see as a huge upside.

.

[Deebs]

Give me the Gagne trade again' date=' and I still do it every single time. There is no way they could have predicted him to have blown up like that.[/quote']

 

I agree. I thought it was a very good deal at the time.

[FredLynn]

 

Benny Boy is leading a charmed life right now with the Bailey deal, which is being viewed in the media as a "steal" for the Sox.

 

The Yankees' main tradng chip is Montero, and I wonder if the Cubs would want him--he's DH material and they have a good catcher in Soto. The Sox have an up with Kalish, and may have enough pitching prospects (Renauldo?, for example) to do a deal. Plus they still have the Theo compensation issue, which could be part of the package.

 

What struck me was Ben's comments about the Bailey deal--he was talking like Sweeney would be in a platoon with Aviles or McDonald next year in RF--as a starter, not a reserve.That means Kalish might be a trade chip.

 

Two good points SoxSport: Montero is really only a chip for the AL. He is not really considered good enough defensively to make the grade as a position player right now. And sure, Kalish, as good as he is, could be used as a chip because corner OF are more easily obtained and less valuable than proven good SP. If we could get Garza for a package centered around Kalish I would do that in a heartbeat (depending, of course, on the composition of the rest of the package).

[Deebs]

What struck me was Ben's comments about the Bailey deal--he was talking like Sweeney would be in a platoon with Aviles or McDonald next year in RF--as a starter, not a reserve.That means Kalish might be a trade chip.

 

I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that Kalish likely won't be ready to start the season. Barring the acquistion of a RH right fielder, I look for Sweeney to get the bulk of the playing time, particularly against RHP, to start the season. Kalish could earn the starter's job around midseason.

 

That said, if Kalish could help bring in a decent starter, then that's a deal that needs to be done.

[iortiz]

Next task: go get Garza.

 

I suspect the rebuilding Cubs would take a deal that includes the Sox younger high level prospects like Cecchini, Coyle, Jacobs, maybe Raunado. At this point the sox should hold onto their higher end depth prospects like Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Wilson. They can and should open the taps on their younger guys for established (not old) talent.

 

From what I read Theo is asking gold for Garza. If we get Garza be prepared to lose some of your higher end depth prospects. I like Garza, but I want to keep those names you mentioned, specially Kalish and Lavarnway. As I said, I'd prefer to go for a guy like Kuroda, even if that means go over the LT.

[example1]

But will Epstein deal to the Yankees over the Red Sox for a player? The answer will tell you something about how amicable Theo's departure was from Boston.

 

I think Garza is definitely in play--Theo knows the Red Sox farm system. And Kalish fits as part of a package--including Theo's compensation for shortening his sentence in Boston by one year.

 

Larry Luchiano is the reason why Theo will never trade with the Red Sox unless he trade rapes the deal. Look at how Larry acted like a baby during the compensation stuff and now the Sox ended up only getting a deal where Theo can't hire anyone from the Red Sox for three years.

 

I think you are both wrong. Theo will allow the GM to trade with either team because he's with the cubs now and it would be stupid to tie a hand behind his back needlessly. That could only hurt the cubs.

[iortiz]

If Reddick is better in Oakland' date=' good for him. The Sox have enough organizational depth at LH OF.[/quote']

 

Agree

 

If you bring in a true #1 like Felix' date=' you don't need Cody Ross.[/quote']

 

Would you like to face next season like this: Crawford-Kalish-Sweeney/McDonald?

 

As I said, I would trade Ells for Felix if you guarantee me the sign of a guy like Ross in the OF, otherwise I wouldn't.

 

Crawford-Kalish-Ross

 

Beckett-Felix-Lester-Buch-Bard

 

Of course all this is a fantasy world.

[example1]

Also they won't move Kalish, or shouldn't anyway. He's their potential next RF and only legit depth in case Ellsbury goes down.

[a700hitter]

Also they won't move Kalish' date=' or shouldn't anyway. He's their potential next RF and only legit depth in case Ellsbury goes down.[/quote']I think Sweeney can play CF.

[example1]

If Garza is actually available' date=' then I find it increasingly difficult for the sox to outbid the Yanks. Garza is exactly what the Yankees are looking for and they have the young pitching chips to make the move.[/quote']

 

They only have to outbid the Yankees if the Yankees go all in on Garza. Given their apparent hesitance to move their best prospects I would think the sox have a good chance here if they want it.

[seabeachfred]

If we go for Garza' date=' Kalish will be just the BEGINING of a large list of top prospects that we will give up. I'd prefer to keep our prospects and go to FA for a guy like Kuroda even if that means go over the cap.[/quote']

 

Like SoxSport you are firing on all cylinders iortiz. If the words Middlebrooks, Lavarnway or Kalish come up in conversations with the Cubs for Garza, we should tell Epstein to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. We will need some good young players to take over positions from veterans who will need to be replaced. We're not currently overloaded with them but those aforementioned threesome are important to our future. I'd rather spend some money for a pitcher than have to trade three or four of our better prospects. Since the Cubs admit they are "rebuilding", whatever the hell that means with Pinocchio Epstein saying it, we offer them some prospects that he can rebuild with from the lower minors, ones that would be ready in three years or so when the rebuilding job should be completed.

[example1]

I think Sweeney can play CF.

 

That is correct sir. He has played CF in the past.

[ORS]

Everyone seems to have a boner for Garza (or as I call him "The Expectorater"). Whatever. I hope we don't loose Kalish. He is just too dammed athletic with what I see as a huge upside.

.

I too don't get the Ga-Ga-for-Garza bonanza. Is he good? Yeah, he's a solid pitcher, but he's not the kind of guy that deserves this level of excitement, IMO. He's got a lot of what Lackey had going for him in his FA year. Best guy available. That does not necessarily mean "Guy You Set the World on Fire to Get". Buyer beware.

 

And, yeah, if they did get him, it would annoy the ever loving s*** out of me having him on the team. I hated having to watch him spit 38 times between every pitch when I only caught 5 or 6 of his games a year. I would not look forward to seeing it every 5th day.

[example1]

Like SoxSport you are firing on all cylinders iortiz. If the words Middlebrooks' date=' Lavarnway or Kalish come up in conversations with the Cubs for Garza, we should tell Epstein to shove it where the sun doesn't shine. We will need some good young players to take over positions from veterans who will need to be replaced. We're not currently overloaded with them but those aforementioned threesome are important to our future. I'd rather spend some money for a pitcher than have to trade three or four of our better prospects. Since the Cubs admit they are "rebuilding", whatever the hell that means with Pinocchio Epstein saying it, we offer them some prospects that he can rebuild with from the lower minors, ones that would be ready in three years or so when the rebuilding job should be completed.[/quote']

 

The quality of your posts is consistently overshadowed by the lame insults of Theo and Ben. You act like they stole your child, sent us needlessly to war abroad, or burned Fenway to the ground for the insurance money. If you let that drop I can envision having amicable discussions with you.

 

Really, pinnoccio Epstein? Is he a compulsive liar or does his nose grow when he does? As far as I can tell neither is the case.

[seabeachfred]

Next task: go get Garza.

 

I suspect the rebuilding Cubs would take a deal that includes the Sox younger high level prospects like Cecchini, Coyle, Jacobs, maybe Raunado. At this point the sox should hold onto their higher end depth prospects like Middlebrooks, Kalish, Lavarnway, Doubront, and Wilson. They can and should open the taps on their younger guys for established (not old) talent.

 

Bingo Bango Bingo EX1---seems the posters here are really on the stick today. Just got through reading Sox Sport snd iortiz and now you and I'm shaking my head saying that I could have said exactly what you three guys said. WE DO NOT TRADE MIDDLEBROOKS, KALISH OR LAVARNWAY. They are keys to our future. As for Doubrant, I'm still not sure of him and I don't know much about Wilson, but obviously you know more about them than I do so I will concede you that on those two. I would also like to keep Renaudo unless we eventually go FA to pick up a couple of horses in a year or two.

 

Cecchini is a lefty and we already have too many of them and we have a young 3Bman almost ready unless Will pulls a Lars Anderson or Josh Reddick and craps out at Pawtucket this coming season. Cecchini is, however, a very good young hitter, Coyle is a Pedroia type but not nearly the talent and Jacobs could be a good all around ball player for a building team. I guess it all comes down to what Epstein wants for Garza, assuming he is really interested in trading him. However, it would be just like him being the sneak he is to trade him to the Yankees instead. Cherington had better keep both his eyes on Theo and his hands on his wallet.

[seabeachfred]

Give me the Gagne trade again' date=' and I still do it every single time. There is no way they could have predicted him to have blown up like that.[/quote']

 

I've never blamed Epstein for that trade Palodios. It sounded terrific at the time and should have worked out well since Gagne had pitched well for Texas. It was either the role of set-up man or pitching in pressure packed Boston that got to him because he turned out to be one gigantic dud. No, I blame FrancoMa for the debacle of what happened because after blowing one game after another he kept sending him out there and said we would keep doing so like the dumb s*** that he was. Only when Lucchino stepped in and said the Red Sox must not blow the division did we see this use of him stop. We were two up when the Yankees lost to Burnett and the Jays on our off day that September and it was two up and six games to go and without having to use Gagne we prevailed.

[example1]

I too don't get the Ga-Ga-for-Garza bonanza. Is he good? Yeah, he's a solid pitcher, but he's not the kind of guy that deserves this level of excitement, IMO. He's got a lot of what Lackey had going for him in his FA year. Best guy available. That does not necessarily mean "Guy You Set the World on Fire to Get". Buyer beware.

 

And, yeah, if they did get him, it would annoy the ever loving s*** out of me having him on the team. I hated having to watch him spit 38 times between every pitch when I only caught 5 or 6 of his games a year. I would not look forward to seeing it every 5th day.

 

I agree that Garza isn't worth breaking the bank for like a Felix or Lincecum. But he is what the Sox could really use right now. He has thrown about 200 IP in 3 of the past 4 seasons and started 30 plus games in all 4. In just about every category he is a worse version of Jon Lester. Slightly worse K9, WHIP, ERA, IP, K/BB, etc., though they are the same age and both still very much in their primes. Garza is durable, healthy, experienced in the ALE, and he has pretty good stuff.

 

I could see him playing the role that Derek Lowe played in Boston as the guy who could dependably take the ball every 5th day and eat innings at a considerably better than average rate.

 

I can also envision the relatively good choice a manager may have between Garza or Bard as fourth SP in a playoff situation. I really like Bard out of the pen in long relief in a playoff series like Ogando did so effectively for TEX this season.

[seabeachfred]

 

Benny Boy is leading a charmed life right now with the Bailey deal, which is being viewed in the media as a "steal" for the Sox.

 

The Yankees' main tradng chip is Montero, and I wonder if the Cubs would want him--he's DH material and they have a good catcher in Soto. The Sox have an up with Kalish, and may have enough pitching prospects (Renauldo?, for example) to do a deal. Plus they still have the Theo compensation issue, which could be part of the package.

 

What struck me was Ben's comments about the Bailey deal--he was talking like Sweeney would be in a platoon with Aviles or McDonald next year in RF--as a starter, not a reserve.That means Kalish might be a trade chip.

 

Did Cherington take a stupid pill after making that good trade for Bailey? He must have if he really believes that Sweeney or McDonald is the answer in RF. Sweeney can't run, has no power, cannot hit lefties and is a player that should have a problem even making the team, and did I say he bats lefthanded? As for McDonald, is Cheerries kidding? The guy can't hit, can't field and is one of the dumbest base runners around. Both should be sent packing. If Kalish goes, something I think would be a bad mistake, we would need to sign Cody Ross or someone of that ilk.

[mvp 78]

Would you like to face next season like this: Crawford-Kalish-Sweeney/McDonald?

 

 

If I had Felix, sure. I'd have the RF platoon be Aviles/Kalish.