2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

Would you sign Kuroda for -+25/2?

[jung]

Put him in pinstripes. I don't see the Sox outbidding the Yanks if NY is truly interested in the guy.

[Palodios]

Would you sign Kuroda for -+25/2?

 

In a heartbeat! The guy had a 3.05 ERA last year, and a 3.45 career ERA, and hasn't missed any time in the last two years. I don't care if he turns into a 4.50 ERA starter here, for 25 million, that's a bargain.

[User Name]

I have a bias against no one. I've gotten into arguments with a few people, but they are people I don't hate or try to single out, we just sometimes have clashing opinions.

 

 

You, on the other hand, are the first person I've found on this board in my 6 years here to be completely insufferable and the first person I may have thought of putting on ignore

 

Since all you bring to the table is being an insulting douche and absolutely nothing baseball related, please do it. Goodbye.

[iortiz]

In a heartbeat! The guy had a 3.05 ERA last year' date=' and a 3.45 career ERA, and hasn't missed any time in the last two years. I don't care if he turns into a 4.50 ERA starter here, for 25 million, that's a bargain.[/quote']

 

Agree.

 

As we said, solid pitchers are making +-15 M these days, I still see fuel in his tank for at least the next couple of seasons.

 

Also, we wouldn't give prospects.

[User Name]

In a heartbeat! The guy had a 3.05 ERA last year' date=' and a 3.45 career ERA, and hasn't missed any time in the last two years. I don't care if he turns into a 4.50 ERA starter here, for 25 million, that's a bargain.[/quote']

 

Absolutely agree. Kuroda would fix a lot of what is currently wrong with this team, specially if his signing moves Bard over to the closer role.

[FredLynn]

Thought it best to steer clear of the discussion until the level of rhetoric got dialed back a bit.

 

Ya' gotta' expect a certain number of people to react to calling 2012 a rebuilding year. i did think one of the posters did do a good job of clarifying when he explained that the Red Sox are not like other teams in that they are not stuck starting from scratch to rebuild and in that sense I think he was trying to say that he does not think of this team much different from the folks talking about the Sox only needing to fill in here and there to contend.

 

Look, regardless of what they do additionally here in the off season it looks to me like they will be reliant on pitchers that they have not relied upon at all before to come through for them and in that sense they will look thin. That said this will not be the first time a team has started the season with a number of pitchers for which there is little in the form of a track record that are going to be relied upon none the less. It happens. We don't expect it to happen to the Sox but I doubt that there will be a way around it this year based on what is available and what they appear willing to spend. It is not a reason to throw in the towel on the season but I am sure a goodly number of us will be disappointed when they look up and down the roster of the team that comes out of spring training.

 

Maybe I have just had longer to get used to this. As you guys know I have thought this is how things were going to look for Sox as far as major and even minor moves were concerned for a long time now. My big disappointment this year was Ortiz arbitration given what i saw as an unwillingness to spend, the hole arbitration to Ortiz left in what is I believe a pretty meager budget for this year and the fact that they left Ortiz with all the cards at the table. The guy has looked like the cat that swallowed the canary ever since then and he has every reason to look that way.

 

Its hard to get past the fact that we have spent the last three years 1. without a playoff victory and 2. with an overall ERA that has been #7, #8, and #9 in the AL. We have done nothing to improve the pitching as yet, and are unlikely to be able to afford anyone who will make an impact on that ERA.

I am not displeased as yet with what our FO has done (which is nothing, essentially) because I think that the smart business decision is to save your chips for next year. There are some here on the board who cannot respect that opinion even when its expressed as an opinion and as food for debate. If lots of the players, especially the SPs, have great years we could indeed contend because we certainly will score runs. But SP has been our problem area (and pitching in general), and NOTHING has been done to fix that problem.

[FredLynn]

In a heartbeat! The guy had a 3.05 ERA last year' date=' and a 3.45 career ERA, and hasn't missed any time in the last two years. I don't care if he turns into a 4.50 ERA starter here, for 25 million, that's a bargain.[/quote']

 

Why would you want to further hobble the team's finances to the tune of $12.5M in 2013 for a guy who will be 38? Makes no sense to me. There will be much better FA SP choices at the end of next season.

[FredLynn]

I have a bias against no one. I've gotten into arguments with a few people, but they are people I don't hate or try to single out, we just sometimes have clashing opinions.

 

 

You, on the other hand, are the first person I've found on this board in my 6 years here to be completely insufferable and the first person I may have thought of putting on ignore

 

Why would you want to put him on ignore?

Its too much fun watching him fly off the handle. He has no self control.

Admit it: its amusing.

[Palodios]

Put him in pinstripes. I don't see the Sox outbidding the Yanks if NY is truly interested in the guy.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how much interest the Yankees will have in the guy. I don't see Kuroda as anything more than a #3/4 starter in the Al East, and that's what the Yankees have a ton of already-- #3/4 starters, plus they do have a ton of young arms in the pipeline that they probably don't want to block. The guy is 37, and he's been in the NL West his entire time here.

[Palodios]

Why would you want to further hobble the team's finances to the tune of $12.5M in 2013 for a guy who will be 38? Makes no sense to me. There will be much better FA SP choices at the end of next season.

 

Because at 37, he posted a 3.05 ERA, that's why. Who are the better FA SP options THIS year? The majority of those FAs will end up re-upping or be part of sign-and-trades.

[FredLynn]

Because at 37' date=' he posted a 3.05 ERA, that's why. Who are the better FA SP options THIS year? The majority of those FAs will end up re-upping or be part of sign-and-trades.[/quote']

 

Some will. Some will remain available. There is a pretty impressive list of FA SP for the 2013 season.

Old guys break down. And when they do they take longer to heal up. Also, whats a 3.05 ERA worth in the ALE?

[iortiz]

Why would you want to further hobble the team's finances to the tune of $12.5M in 2013 for a guy who will be 38? Makes no sense to me. There will be much better FA SP choices at the end of next season.

 

Then, what other option do you suggest? Unless you want to give up great part of your top farm for solid pitcher.

 

He was not my favorite. I preferred Buehrle. I just don't want to see both, Bard and Aceves in those spots. One or another, but not both.

[Spitball]

Kuroda and/or Wandy Rodriguez would make me satisfied (maybe not quite happy) with the offseason. I accept going into the season with Reddick or Kalish in right, but the Red Sox need to add quality/depth behind the top three starters. They also need to buy some time until the lower prospects are ready to pitch or trade.

[FredLynn]

Then, what other option do you suggest? Unless you want to give up great part of your top farm for solid pitcher.

 

He was not my favorite. I preferred Buehrle. I just don't want to see both, Bard and Aceves in those spots. One or another, but not both.

 

Good question. I would prefer to look for cheap one year pitchers if they are available. I would see what Bard and Aceves can do as SP and backfill the pen with those cheap pitchers. Maybe try to get Wheeler back. Use Doubront and Miller as depth in the SP area and maybe use Bowden, who stinks, out of the pen. I give up NOTHING this year and save all my chips for next year. Maintain as much flexibility for next year's run as possible.

[jung]

I agree about the young arms the Yanks have...not so much about the 3/4 guys. There are a bunch of them but they don't get much outta' them. The 4 has been a real problem I think. Lets face it, the second biggest surprise in baseball last year was how far the Yanks got with that rotation put together with glue and bubblegum after CC. But I do agree about the young arms and even wonder if they might be looking to give some of those guys a shot even this year.

[User Name]

Why would you want to put him on ignore?

Its too much fun watching him fly off the handle. He has no self control.

Admit it: its amusing.

 

You're like a member of the tea party. You just don't know when to shut the f*** up. Talk baseball or GTFO.

[User Name]

I agree about the young arms the Yanks have...not so much about the 3/4 guys. There are a bunch of them but they don't get much outta' them. The 4 has been a real problem I think. Lets face it' date=' the second biggest surprise in baseball last year was how far the Yanks got with that rotation put together with glue and bubblegum after CC. But I do agree about the young arms and even wonder if they might be looking to give some of those guys a shot even this year.[/quote']

 

They have a #1, two #4's, and two question marks. Keeping Kuroda away from the Yankees may be a coup by itself.

[FredLynn]

You're like a member of the tea party. You just don't know when to shut the f*** up. Talk baseball or GTFO.

 

Let me understand this: you are telling me to GTFO.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Get a grip man....you really need to lighten up.

Now, back to baseball, eh?

[iortiz]

Good question. I would prefer to look for cheap one year pitchers if they are available. I would see what Bard and Aceves can do as SP and backfill the pen with those cheap pitchers. Maybe try to get Wheeler back. Use Doubront and Miller as depth in the SP area and maybe use Bowden' date=' who stinks, out of the pen. I give up NOTHING this year and save all my chips for next year. Maintain as much flexibility for next year's run as possible.[/quote']

 

If we don't bring a solid pitcher next year to fill the 4th spot, I hate to say it, but IMO we will see some 2011 September passages again next season. IMO Aceves and Bard in the rotatation are long shots and Doubront, Miller and Bowden as depth doesn't make me comfortable at all.

 

But I got you point, tough. Would be great that some of those kids somehow show some solid things next season and better spend the chips/money in 2013.

[seabeachfred]

I don't always agree with you' date=' but you never confuse me.[/quote']

 

I swear to Buddha my friend that MVP was one of the very rare ones who has ever accused me of not knowing where I stand. I caught hell from parents and administrators when I taught and coached because I didn't pull any punches and not only told it like it was but was accused of being blunt and to the point. I hope that's the last I hear from MVP on that item. Sorry if I confused him, but is so hard to understand that on the one hand I haven't liked what our front office has done this winter and still hold out hope that we can put a winning team on the field. Of course, if we had been willing to spend some money on a quality pitcher, a RH hitting outfielder, a top notch closer, we would have been better served.

 

It means the team is going to have to fire on all cylinders next season with some key people really stepping up, but I do not throw in the towel on our prospects. Just the fact that we now have a manager who knows what the hell he is doing in the dugout could prevent us from losing games that we should not lose, a bad habit from the past.

 

I'm with you 700. A little more tweaking and a top notch effort from the troops and we could compete very well next season.

[mvp 78]

Baseball? I thought this was a meeting of Panties in a Bunch Anonymous? Must have mistyped the url.

[User Name]

Baseball? I thought this was a meeting of Panties in a Bunch Anonymous? Must have mistyped the url.

 

Oh no sir! you have come exactly to the right place!!

[mvp 78]

How can you consider the FO inept if they fixed the biggest problem you had with this team? Are they simply inept because they don't do exactly what you want or is this some old bias you'll never get over?

 

Fred, you never answered this question. This conundrum was what I was confused over.

[FredLynn]

If we don't bring a solid pitcher next year to fill the 4th spot, I hate to say it, but IMO we would see some 2011 September passages again next season. IMO Aceves and Bard in the rotatation are long shots and Doubront, Miller and Bowden as depth doesn't make me comfortable at all.

 

But I got you point, tough. Would be great that some of those guys somehow show some solid things next season and better spend the chips/money in 2013.

 

Hey, I would love for us to have the resources to fix the pitching problem we have had for the last three years. I want us to compete for a ring every single year. IMO Epstein screwed things up in that regard by choosing Lackey and Matsusaka and overpaying Beckett and signing Jenks. Aceves and Bard will be IMPROVEMENTS over our #4 and 5 last year-huge improvements. But they cannot toss more than 160 innings or their arms will fall off. That takes time, building up to that many innings. And if they leave the pen then the pen is empty.

Too much to do for one year IMO.

[iortiz]

Hey' date=' I would love for us to have the resources to fix the pitching problem we have had for the last three years. I want us to compete for a ring every single year. IMO Epstein screwed things up in that regard by choosing Lackey and Matsusaka and overpaying Beckett and signing Jenks. Aceves and Bard will be IMPROVEMENTS over our #4 and 5 last year-huge improvements. But they cannot toss more than 160 innings or their arms will fall off. That takes time, building up to that many innings. [b']And if they leave the pen then the pen is empty.[/b]

Too much to do for one year IMO.

 

Yup. I missed to comment this.

 

I really want to see my team as a contender one next year. I don't want to wait until 2013. Going like this (unlikely) we ain't going anywhere in 2012. Kuroda could help us a lot. Yes, he is old. Yes, is arguably a lot of money for a guy of his age. Yes this is the ALE. But I don't see better options out there at this point and picking him up, you would save at least your farm. IMO I see him putting some solid numbers (+-4.5) at least the next couple of years.

[Palodios]

Some will. Some will remain available. There is a pretty impressive list of FA SP for the 2013 season.

Old guys break down. And when they do they take longer to heal up. Also, whats a 3.05 ERA worth in the ALE?

 

A 3.05 ERA in the AL usually translates to a 3.5-4.0 ERA. As I said, I'd even be okay with a 4.50-- just a guy to give the offense a chance, and I'm sure he's good enough to do that.

[FredLynn]

A 3.05 ERA in the AL usually translates to a 3.5-4.0 ERA. As I said' date=' I'd even be okay with a 4.50-- just a guy to give the offense a chance, and I'm sure he's good enough to do that.[/quote']

 

He would certainly be an improvement over who we had as our #4 SP last year if he could keep his ERA around 4 and IF HE STAYS HEALTHY. Losing Lackey also helps.

Still, this does not fix our pitching staff, ranked ninth last year in the league, at least not completely. We still have Andrew Miller and other SP to be named later (even with Kuroda); and we have Albers (who had a year last year that will likely not be repeated based on his career stats), and we have Jenks coming back to do us more harm. Kuroda would help in 2012 but decrease our financial flexibility in 2013.

[Palodios]

He would certainly be an improvement over who we had as our #4 SP last year if he could keep his ERA around 4 and IF HE STAYS HEALTHY. Losing Lackey also helps.

Still, this does not fix our pitching staff, ranked ninth last year in the league, at least not completely. We still have Andrew Miller and other SP to be named later (even with Kuroda); and we have Albers (who had a year last year that will likely not be repeated based on his career stats), and we have Jenks coming back to do us more harm. Kuroda would help in 2012 but decrease our financial flexibility in 2013.

 

Kuroda pitched 63 games the last two years. Why do you consider him a big injury risk?

[FredLynn]

Kuroda pitched 63 games the last two years. Why do you consider him a big injury risk?

 

His age alone makes him high risk for injury. You know that older players tend to get injured more often and take longer to heal. Thats just the way it is. Past injury history is no guarantee at all of future injury free performance.