2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why not Marlon Byrd? He can actually play the OF.

 

Also, Lavarnway and WMB should not be a part of a deal for a pitcher you will have for two years. Both project as everyday players for the Sox making the league minimum. That, in itself, is more valuable than two years of Garza.

 

Fair enough, but I think for Garza, you have to package one of them in the deal. As for Marlon Byrd, his OPS has decreased in each of the past 4 years, so I'm not huge on that.

 

Could be that if we make a deal w the Cubs, it's just for Garza, but it would cost a haul of prospects after seeing what the Nats just paid and what the Reds paid for Latos.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Like you said. We were spit-balling. We don't have to defend everything to the death. Why should we be held to a higher standard than Ben' date=' who hasn't had to defend his offer of arbitration to Ortiz.[/quote']

 

Exactly. I'll never understand why he guaranteed Ortiz 14-15mm a year. Probably could have gotten him for 2/18, but not anymore. So dumb.

[win red sox]

I actually still really like WMB + Ranaudo + Bogaerts + Lavarnway for Garza + Soriano + enough money to take Soriano's contract down to 3/18.

 

I think this is more and more likely based on this:

 

 

 

Luckily both Theo and Hoyer are extremely familiar with the Red Sox farm system, so it only seems right that they would be able to work out a deal with Cherington.

 

That's awesome, trade our top 4 prospect's for Matt Garza and Soriano. Let me see here, 1) WMB is on track to be the starting 3rd basemen in 2013 and is our #1 prospect

2) Lavernaway has crazy offense potential and will be a major contributor in 2013 and he's rated the number 6 prospect

3) Ranaudo projects as a middle of rotation starter and is our #3 prospect

4) Bogart's has the most upside of any of our prospects and is rated number 4.

 

Soriano is garbage, even if he was a free agent I wouldn't sign him for more 2/8.

 

Realize this, Boston is trying to fill the backend of the rotation. You don't trade your entire farm system to fill the backend of the rotation.

[SoxFanForsyth]

That's awesome, trade our top 4 prospect's for Matt Garza and Soriano. Let me see here, 1) WMB is on track to be the starting 3rd basemen in 2013 and is our #1 prospect

2) Lavernaway has crazy offense potential and will be a major contributor in 2013 and he's rated the number 6 prospect

3) Ranaudo projects as a middle of rotation starter and is our #3 prospect

4) Bogart's has the most upside of any of our prospects and is rated number 4.

 

Soriano is garbage, even if he was a free agent I wouldn't sign him for more 2/8.

 

Realize this, Boston is trying to fill the backend of the rotation. You don't trade your entire farm system to fill the backend of the rotation.

 

1. Some scouts have evaluated Cecchini as talent that is as good as, or better than WMB. Also, Xander Bogaerts, who has HanRam type power and potential, is likely going to be moved to 3B because of his size, so if we dealt WMB, it wouldn't be like we're dealing out of a position of no depth. And this isn't even mentioning Kolbrin Vitek, a 1st rounder in 2010 who also plays 3B.

 

2. Yeah, he's got major offensive potential. But if you want a high caliber pitcher like Garza, you can't give up .200 hitting catchers.

 

3. Ranaudo has actually lose significant velocity, and was sitting 89-90 all last season. His inconsistency is maddening to a lot of scouts, and he is not pitching as advertised. A lot of scouts are beginning to project him as a relief pitcher.

 

4. Bogaerts should not be dealt, I agree with this.

 

Realize this. Garza would be the Sox #2 or #3. If a pitcher of that caliber becomes available, you explore options, which is what I was doing. If we traded for Garza and won the WS in 2012, you wouldn't say anything about the prospects we lost.

 

It's all about winning.

[Spitball]

I'd be interested in Byrd, but I have no interest in the Sox dealing with the Cubs. Let Epstein and Hoyer fix that mess without the Red Sox helping them.

 

Garza was regressing before he moved to the NL. He had pretty good numbers last year but against lesser opponents and no DH. The Cubs have to live with Soriano and the Sox should not help them out of that problem.

 

I'd rather look at other options. Either Santana would interest me more than Garza. Kuroda is a possibility I'd prefer because of the Epstein/Hoyer factor.

[a700hitter]

I'd be interested in Byrd, but I have no interest in the Sox dealing with the Cubs. Let Epstein and Hoyer fix that mess without the Red Sox helping them.

 

Garza was regressing before he moved to the NL. He had pretty good numbers last year but against lesser opponents and no DH. The Cubs have to live with Soriano and the Sox should not help them out of that problem.

 

I'd rather look at other options. Either Santana would interest me more than Garza. Kuroda is a possibility I'd prefer because of the Epstein/Hoyer factor.

Is Santana being made available by the Angels. He would be very interesting.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah' date=' but I'm pretty sure he still wants to play.[/quote']

 

I'm sure he still wants to play too and that is fine with me so long as it is for some other team. It's about time we finally move on and away from him and Wakefield, another stiff who'se worn out his usefulness to the team. Sorry to sound so cynical but these two have found no takers yet and if we hadn't signed Varitek twice in the last three years he would have been out of baseball because he didn't receive one offer from anyone else, and if we let Wakefield try and catch on with another team, which we should, he most likely would come up empty.

 

We jettisoned FrancoMa, sort of gave Epstein the boot, and now it is time to send these two sacred cows packing. We will have to start cleaning house of the old guard sooner or later and sooner suits me just fine.

[User Name]

I'd be interested in Byrd, but I have no interest in the Sox dealing with the Cubs. Let Epstein and Hoyer fix that mess without the Red Sox helping them.

 

Garza was regressing before he moved to the NL. He had pretty good numbers last year but against lesser opponents and no DH. The Cubs have to live with Soriano and the Sox should not help them out of that problem.

 

I'd rather look at other options. Either Santana would interest me more than Garza. Kuroda is a possibility I'd prefer because of the Epstein/Hoyer factor.

 

Garza had a 6.6 K/9 and a 3.91 ERA, then he goes to the NL and the K/9 jumps to 9 and shaves almost a run off the ERA while all of the other peripherals remain pretty much the same. Artificially made (NL) improvement if ya ask me.

[a700hitter]

As much as I like Bailey's stuff, I don't trust the health of his arm. Breslow may be the better option for the Sox, and he'd be cheaper.

[Spitball]

Is Santana being made available by the Angels. He would be very interesting.

 

Halos listening to offers : According to the New York Post, after the Angels acquired C.J. Wilson they are now willing to listen to offers regarding SP Ervin Santana. Santana is owed $11.2 million this season, and according to the report the Yankees are not crazy about Santana.

(Updated 12/11/2011)

[a700hitter]

He'd be a solid #4, and bard could go back to the pen and be the closer.

[a700hitter]

The poor Mets are going to be such door mats in the NL East in 2012. They should just unload everyone. What would you think about the Sox emptying the farm for David Wright and trading Youkilis for a top starting pitcher?

[a700hitter]

Speaking of Saunders, he talked to Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic about the negotiations between he and the Diamondbacks. Arizona offered Saunders a two-year, $12MM deal and Saunders' camp countered with a three-year, $27MM deal. The D'Backs never made a counter, and though Saunders said he then offered to take a two-year contract worth around $16MM, the club non-tendered him and moved on. I've got to side with the D'Backs in this case -- with the rest of their rotation so cost-controlled, if you're going to splurge on a starter, you can spend your money on a better pitcher than Saunders (perhaps Hiroki Kuroda).

Would the Sox top 2/$12 million for Saunders?

[example1]

I don't like the idea of dealing for the Angels castaways, unless the price isn't that significant.

 

The Sox are in a weird situation. They don't need a #4 starter who is as good as a #2, but they can't rely on their unproven pieces (Doubront, Aceves, Miller) to take those slots. They really need someone who is a notch or two above Doubront, who can throw innings consistently and keep them in games.

 

Gio was a unique case, with his age and cost-controlledness, but Ervin Santana for good prospects and $$ doesn't seem great.

 

I don't hate the idea of Kuroda for nothing but money, Saunders for nothing but less money, or a trade for someone who has some years left for the team.

 

Too bad Matsuzaka isn't healthy. He is the type of pitcher they are looking for right about now.

[a700hitter]

I don't like the idea of dealing for the Angels castaways, unless the price isn't that significant.

 

The Sox are in a weird situation. They don't need a #4 starter who is as good as a #2, but they can't rely on their unproven pieces (Doubront, Aceves, Miller) to take those slots. They really need someone who is a notch or two above Doubront, who can throw innings consistently and keep them in games.

 

Gio was a unique case, with his age and cost-controlledness, but Ervin Santana for good prospects and $$ doesn't seem great.

 

I don't hate the idea of Kuroda for nothing but money, Saunders for nothing but less money, or a trade for someone who has some years left for the team.

 

Too bad Matsuzaka isn't healthy. He is the type of pitcher they are looking for right about now.

I am surprised that you view Santana as a castaway. He has compiled more than 200 innings in 3 of the last 4 seasons, and in each of those seasons he pitched to a sub 4 ERA. That's a pretty good track record.

[a700hitter]

I could see a possibility of getting David Wright from the Mets for a hefty package of prospects and then swapping Youk for Santana (an even salary swap). Wright and Santana are both only 28 years old.

[example1]

I am surprised that you view Santana as a castaway. He has compiled more than 200 innings in 3 of the last 4 seasons' date=' and in each of those seasons he pitched to a sub 4 ERA. That's a pretty good track record.[/quote']

 

I only meant castaway in the sense that the Angels think they will be better getting a package for him rather than having him take the ball every 5th day. He's a good pitcher.

 

I could see a possibility of getting David Wright from the Mets for a hefty package of prospects and then swapping Youk for Santana (an even salary swap). Wright and Santana are both only 28 years old.

 

I like the idea of Wright, but I don't like trading Youkilis for Santana.

[a700hitter]

I only meant castaway in the sense that the Angels think they will be better getting a package for him rather than having him take the ball every 5th day. He's a good pitcher.

 

 

 

I like the idea of Wright, but I don't like trading Youkilis for Santana.

Who would you prefer to target with Youkilis? I wouldn't limit the Youk for Santana trade as an even up trade. maybe we could get a pretty good prospect in the deal along with Santana.

[Bellhorn04]

As much as I like Bailey's stuff' date=' I don't trust the health of his arm. Breslow may be the better option for the Sox, and he'd be cheaper.[/quote']

 

Breslow was traded to the D'Backs as part of the Cahill deal.

[Palodios]

Apparently the Red Sox are in trade talks for Gavin Floyd. Now THAT is a name I can get behind. He's not in the NL or AL West, he's pitched 180+ innings the last four years to a low 4's ERA, and costs 7 million next year, and isn't locked up. He'd be a perfect 4th or 5th inning guy, and won't cost 4-5 top prospects.

[jacksonianmarch]

Floyd is a guy I wanted in NY, but if this climate shows anything, these pitchers are all getting ridiculous hauls for their teams. I went through a breakdown of his stats in the Yankee offseason thread, but he is coming off a yr with solid peripherals yet a high ERA. But knowing Kenny Williams, he'll shop him around, sign him to an extension then watch the White Sox ship sink.

[SoxSport]

I'd like to see them go after League in Seattle--or the big Kahuna Hernandez.

 

It would take a bold, brash move to get Felix. Ben probably isn't the type of guy to pull it off.

 

My view is it's about pitching--not loading your lineup with expensive hitters.

[Meh]

But knowing Kenny Williams' date=' he'll shop him around, sign him to an extension then watch the White Sox ship sink.[/quote']

 

I LOL at Kenny Williams basically once a week. I'm glad they keep him around baseball, good for getting my jollies.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'd like to see them go after League in Seattle--or the big Kahuna Hernandez.

 

It would take a bold, brash move to get Felix. Ben probably isn't the type of guy to pull it off.

 

My view is it's about pitching--not loading your lineup with expensive hitters.

 

I've now changed my view on Hernandez. Prior to the Jimenez trade, the best deal for an ace level pitcher was Cliff Lee. And that saw a top prospect, 2 close to ready mid level prospect and one long range prospect with upside head to Seattle. The Jimenez trade changed things when you saw two close to ready top prospects headline the deal. The Gio deal is insane. Peacock and Norris were their best pitching and offensive prospect in the Nats system and both were close. And the other two guys were hardly throw-ins. If the Mariners decided to deal Feliz, arguably better than both Gio and Jimenez combined, then they could ask for Montero, Nova, Betances, and Banuelos from the Yankees. At that point, I step back from the table and say, we'll stick it out.

 

Also, remember, we're talking about two teams now actively trying to stay under the lux tax. The Yankees dont want to go way over as in years past because the bill is so much higher and the sox dont want to move past it at all. Having $19 mil on the books for Hernandez wouldnt help.

[a700hitter]

I've now changed my view on Hernandez. Prior to the Jimenez trade, the best deal for an ace level pitcher was Cliff Lee. And that saw a top prospect, 2 close to ready mid level prospect and one long range prospect with upside head to Seattle. The Jimenez trade changed things when you saw two close to ready top prospects headline the deal. The Gio deal is insane. Peacock and Norris were their best pitching and offensive prospect in the Nats system and both were close. And the other two guys were hardly throw-ins. If the Mariners decided to deal Feliz, arguably better than both Gio and Jimenez combined, then they could ask for Montero, Nova, Betances, and Banuelos from the Yankees. At that point, I step back from the table and say, we'll stick it out.

 

Also, remember, we're talking about two teams now actively trying to stay under the lux tax. The Yankees dont want to go way over as in years past because the bill is so much higher and the sox dont want to move past it at all. Having $19 mil on the books for Hernandez wouldnt help.

What is the ETA at the MLB level for the Betances and Banuelos?

[jacksonianmarch]

They will both be in AAA this yr. Betances already made his debut in September last yr. Both could be playing in the bigs this season, depending on their performance or injuries

[Meh]

I see the As could deal Suzuki next. I still think the sox get Bailey but working off their mega deal they tried to do for gio and bailey, they settle for Kurt C Ruff and Bailey. Something like Kalish, WMB, Alcantara and Workman/Wilson gets it done.

[mvp 78]

Beane isn't trading Bailey to an AL team. Not a chance.

[example1]

I'd like to see them go after League in Seattle--or the big Kahuna Hernandez.

 

It would take a bold, brash move to get Felix. Ben probably isn't the type of guy to pull it off.

 

My view is it's about pitching--not loading your lineup with expensive hitters.

 

If Felix becomes available it won't be an under the radar thing. All teams will be invited and it will be an auction. Sox are unlikely to prevail at this time.

[FredLynn]

I see the As could deal Suzuki next. I still think the sox get Bailey but working off their mega deal they tried to do for gio and bailey' date=' they settle for Kurt C Ruff and Bailey. Something like Kalish, WMB, Alcantara and Workman/Wilson gets it done.[/quote']

 

The Sox are going to remain on the sidelines this year, as they should. While its fun to speculate about what deals could be made, I think that they are just about finished now with the acquisitions of Punto and Melancon, and the pending arbitration with Ortiz. This is the proper approach for a rebuilding year, which defines this year. It would be nice to get rid of troublemakers like Beckett (who, in his first exposure to his new boss, Bobby Valentine, thought it was just fine to complain about criticisms his new BOSS had about his delivery instead of accepting it as criticism worthy of consideration) and Youkilis, who is not only breaking down but who is not a clubhouse favorite. We could get a pretty nice haul in terms of young prospects for those two.

I certainly hope the FO doesn't do anything foolish this winter and jeopardize our chances in 2014.