2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Elktonnick]

Looks like we're going all in on both... kinda excited but not all that eager to give up the entire farm for Bailey and Gonzalez

 

MLB radio reported the same. Though they didn't think Sox had the prospects to make a mega deal possible.

[example1]

A's get the best of that deal. Explains why they would want to explore trading Gio.

[a700hitter]

No Gio for the Sox. Next up... ?

[example1]

No Gio for the Sox. Next up... ?

 

Good question.

 

There's no doubt the Sox are willing to move top prospects if they were seriously being considered by OAK.

 

Bailey is probably still being considered for less, which would move Bard and Aceves into the rotation.

 

Bailey's injury history is scary.

 

A cheaper sign like Saunders would move Aceves (? probably ?) back into the pen, which would help a bit. Oswalt wouldn't be "cheap" and he's got that injury history too.

 

I don't see any obvious moves here.

[a700hitter]

Good question.

 

There's no doubt the Sox are willing to move top prospects if they were seriously being considered by OAK.

 

Bailey is probably still being considered for less, which would move Bard and Aceves into the rotation.

 

Bailey's injury history is scary.

 

A cheaper sign like Saunders would move Aceves (? probably ?) back into the pen, which would help a bit. Oswalt wouldn't be "cheap" and he's got that injury history too.

 

I don't see any obvious moves here.

I view Saunders as a depth move and a swing man to fill Aceves old role. I don't like Oswalt's or Bailey's injury history at all. There is no obvious move. Maybe Edwin Jackson becomes a target, but he will not be cheap. Garza is probably on the radar ahead of Jackson.

[SoxSport]

Nationals To Acquire Gio Gonzalez

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/nationals-to-acquire-gio-gonzalez.html

 

The Athletics will send Gio Gonzalez to the Nationals for A.J. Cole, Derek Norris, Brad Peacock and Tom Milone, ESPN.com's Keith Law reports (on Twitter).

 

Gonzalez is under team control through 2015 and has reached the 200-inning plateau in each of the past two seasons without posting an ERA above 3.23. He'll join Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann atop the Nationals' rotation. However, no MLB pitcher has walked more opponents than Gonzalez in the past two seasons and he's about to get expensive through arbitration (projected 2012 salary of $4.2MM).

 

My impression without looking it up is Gio did not pitch as well on the road as at home last year. And Oakland is a pitcher's park. In addition, his whip is high 1.3+, so he isn't there yet as an elite pitcher--though he's young and could get there, especially in the NL. The Nats gave up a lot, but the lower teams have more loaded farm systems than the better teams like the Red Sox, and so can afford to give up more. In addition, the Sox cleaned out some of their farm system in the AGon deal, so they don't have as much to offer. Maybe enough to get Bailey.

[seabeachfred]

That's a factor, but even if you control for it, Bogar was bad.

 

The last really decent 3B coach we've had was DeMarlo Hale.

 

Sorry Dojji, but I'm not buying Hale in any way as a decent third base coach. Yes, Sveum was reckless to the point of near incompetency and Bogar was just plain stupid down there, but Hale was a safety first guy to the nauseating extremt, always with his two hands up holding runners continuously. I saw Manny Ramirez on THREE occasions in games in 2007 and 2008 run through a stop sign at third base and make it home those THREE occasions STANDING UP!!!!!! Hale was totally a clone of the safety-first, station-to-station of his boss, the incompetent FrancoMa. To me coaching third base is not an easy job at all, but it seems the ones we've had went out of their way to make it harder. Just my opinion.

[seabeachfred]

And Hale took a lot of grief for being too cautious. As I recall Manny ran through Hale's stop sign several times and made it home safely. Maybe Manny will be a good third base coach.

 

Shoot Bellhorn, if I would have read your post before I answered with one of my own I could have saved myself the trouble of writing one. Absolutely correct!!!! I saw Manny do that three times in person. Hale was more than cautious; he was a crappy third base coach and helped FrancoMa make us a timid team on the bases.

[seabeachfred]

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but every single time anything mildly positive comes up for the Red Sox, or a trade proposition is made, Jackso always comes in with often-times irrational negativity and it gets a little old. Everytime one of our players gets hurt, they're out for the season and it's a tough recovery, but if the Yankees players get hurt, they'll be back in a week. The Yankees prospects are all blue chips, but none of the Red Sox prospects are more than a 4th OF.

 

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me, but just look up stats before you do. He said Aceves is going to get killed in the 2nd time through the lineup if he becomes a SP, but his stats were consistent with Sabathia's when facing a batter for the 2nd time in a game. It gets really annoying.

 

Well he's a partisan Yankee fan and you have the right to take him to task; I never denied you that right. It just kind of shook me up to see how you called him dumb; we're all ju st giving personal opinions. Still, you keep plugging away. I like the way to take a stand and back it up with some hard facts. I'd rather see one of my collegues be on the enthusiastic and aggressive side than a namby-pamby who skirts the issues time and again.

 

Besides, Jacksonian once defended my very enthusiastically when a couple of crumbs from a now defunct Dodger board started giving me a ration of s*** about something I wrote negatively about their team on another board. Stange as it may be, one of those "crumbs" is now a good friend of mine.

[example1]

I view Saunders as a depth move and a swing man to fill Aceves old role. I don't like Oswalt's or Bailey's injury history at all. There is no obvious move. Maybe Edwin Jackson becomes a target' date=' but he will not be cheap. Garza is probably on the radar ahead of Jackson.[/quote']

 

I agree. Garza is probably near the top of their list. Perhaps there's some way the Sox can make a "fair" deal for Garza (rather than being raked over the coals) as part of the Theo compensation.

 

Edwin Jackson will cost too much and probably be around for too long to be worth the cost.

 

Jair Jurrjens is another candidate. Perhaps moving Youkilis + for Jurrjens and another few pieces would make sense. I think he's a very good pitcher, but you have to be concerned about the injuries with him too. Thank GOD the Sox have 3 viable top of rotation starters to build around.

[example1]

Kuroda would be another option, I suppose.

[seabeachfred]

That's a really big package (what she said) for Gio Gonzalez.

 

Hope Sox are still in on Bailey and that they will be aggressive for other SPs. Can't say I'll be devistated if the report is true and the Sox didn't empty farm for Gio.

 

Frankly, I wasn't too gung ho about Gonzales. Too damn many walks---and I'll tell you another thing on that. While the Mariners, Rangers and Angels are not noted for high OBP and tend to be aggressive at the plate, the Yankees most certainly aren't and neither for that matter are the Rays. Gonzales would be gassed out by the fifth or sixth inning facing those teams four or five times a year. You need an example? Try Josh Beckett against the Yankees this past season. He literally owned them. Why? They tried the same s*** with him waiting him out and forcing him to throw more pitches. The only trouble was Josh had excellent control and too often the Yanks found themselves on the wrong end of an 0-2 count. I was at one of those games in April at Fenway and he had the Yankees tied up in knots always behind in the count. When you get in that kind of position with a good pitcher you're dead batter walking. Gonzo would not be as effective pitching at Fenway, or YS or Baltimore where the ball flies out much better than it does in Seattle or Oakland or Anaheim.

[seabeachfred]

I view Saunders as a depth move and a swing man to fill Aceves old role. I don't like Oswalt's or Bailey's injury history at all. There is no obvious move. Maybe Edwin Jackson becomes a target' date=' but he will not be cheap. Garza is probably on the radar ahead of Jackson.[/quote']

 

700, Pumpsie Green, Elktonnick and Muggah are my long time pals and they think I'm full of crap for liking the idea of going after Saunders, but I think he would be worth a chance. First of all, he has always in the past pitched well at Fenway Park and he was a solid pitcher for the Angels, and not that bad for the D'Backs. I just have a feeling that he could turn out to be a very pleasant surprise for us, and I saw him on TV pitch a couple of good games against the Yankees. Look, we're apparently not going to be spending all that money, are we? So pick up the guy and see what happens. It would mean either Aceves or Bard go back to the pen and that strengthens us down there. I think it is worth a try.

[jung]

I suspect the Nats were able to offer more for Gio than the Sox were willing to offer even in prospects. I would be willing to bet that the Sox held Larvarnway back...maybe more. That actually sounds like reasonably good thinking to me as I would not have wanted the Sox to toss a whole bunch of talent in to get Gio. I can see the Nats putting together a sweeter deal and I guess that is what happened.

 

I do think we have entered the trade portion of the Sox off season personnel move season. Might still make a FA move I guess. Players are moving off the list pretty quickly though.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No Gio for the Sox. Next up... ?

 

If we were building a mister package for Gio and Bailey, we should build a monster package for Garza.

[jung]

I do think that the number of FA players still available that the Sox have legitimate interest in is dwindling rapidly. In fact as far as busting the LT cap is concerned that list may be down to one....Madson. Once he is spoken for if he is not wearing Red Sox I will at that point be inclined to think that the jury will for the most part be in as far as busting the LT cap is concerned.

[win red sox]

#Royals #Braves and #RedSox discussing 3 team deal. Soria to Sox, Jurrjens to Royals, Cain, Scutaro + to Atlanta.

https://twitter.com/#!/PioDeportes1

 

http://buzztap.com/link.jsp?id=7008587&cid=104

 

 

 

This is kind of interesting, who would play shortstop? a trade for Hanley in the mix?

[MNSoxChief102]

#Royals #Braves and #RedSox discussing 3 team deal. Soria to Sox, Jurrjens to Royals, Cain, Scutaro + to Atlanta.

https://twitter.com/#!/PioDeportes1

 

http://buzztap.com/link.jsp?id=7008587&cid=104

 

 

 

This is kind of interesting, who would play shortstop? a trade for Hanley in the mix?

 

Hmm... Scutaro alone definitely isn't enough for us to land Soria. We'd have to send him to Atlanta and several other prospects to get that deal done.

 

If Scutaro was all it took, I'd do that deal in a heart beat.

[iortiz]

Scutaro +? What is this "+"?

[Palodios]

Hmm... Scutaro alone definitely isn't enough for us to land Soria. We'd have to send him to Atlanta and several other prospects to get that deal done.

 

If Scutaro was all it took, I'd do that deal in a heart beat.

 

Why trade away a player for another player when they will both cost roughly the same, and produce a similar amount of value? Adding ANY prospects to this deal makes it a bad deal.

[User Name]

 

Hoenstly, I'm not taking a s*** on the Red Sox here, even if SawxFrostFan or whatever thinks I am but I think the Nats get Gio.

 

Really? That seems to be far and away the number one reason you post on this site.

[User Name]

My impression without looking it up is Gio did not pitch as well on the road as at home last year. And Oakland is a pitcher's park.

 

You mean the same "impression" that has been posted in this same thread over and over again, but with numbers to back it up? Groundbreaking.

[Palodios]

On another note, Jason Varitek was at the Celtics pre-season game last night. Glad he's still in Boston. I wonder if any team will take a flier on him.

[User Name]

Henry and LL have supposedly "opened an invitation" for Tek to remain with the Sox on a capacity other than player.

[Palodios]

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure he still wants to play.

[jung]

Catching talent is in such short supply in MLB I think there is more than an even shot that some team makes a play for Tek maybe asking him to play a season with intensions of moving him into coaching somewhere in their organization at some point.

[example1]

Yeah' date=' but I'm pretty sure he still wants to play.[/quote']

 

Too bad for him.

 

Tek doesn't have a spot on this team. I suppose he could get invited to spring training, and watch Shoppach get a season-ending injury (knock on wood) and then get a spot roadblocking Lavarnway. Otherwise, he should move on to a promising career doing something else... not sure what...

 

chicken fryer?

[Palodios]

Too bad for him.

 

Tek doesn't have a spot on this team. I suppose he could get invited to spring training, and watch Shoppach get a season-ending injury (knock on wood) and then get a spot roadblocking Lavarnway. Otherwise, he should move on to a promising career doing something else... not sure what...

 

chicken fryer?

 

I think you missed my other post. His playing days here are long gone.

[a700hitter]

Cardinals Agree To Two-Year Deal With Carlos Beltran

By Mark Polishuk [December 22 at 6:49pm CST]

 

The Cardinals have addressed the Albert Pujols-sized void in their lineup by agreeing to terms with free agent outfielder Carlos Beltran. The contract is a two-year, $26MM deal that includes a full no-trade clause. Beltran is represented by Dan Lozano.

 

Beltran is slated to play right field until Allen Craig returns from injury, and then Beltran shift to center field (with Jon Jay still receiving significant playing time). Beltran is also likely the Cardinals' top DH option during interleague games in American League ballparks.

 

Beltran, who turns 35 in April, hit .300/.385/.525 in 598 plate appearances for the Mets and Giants in 2011. It was a solid return to good fitness from Beltran, who was plagued by knee injuries over the previous two seasons and made only 612 plate appearances combined in 2009-10. The Guardians and Blue Jays were considered to be the other finalists for Beltran's services, with the Rays and Red Sox also in the mix.

 

Though Beltran was a Type A free agent, the Giants will not receive a compensatory draft pick since they weren't allowed to offer him arbitration due to a clause in Beltran's previous contract with the Mets. The Cardinals, as well, don't have to give up any draft picks for the signing.

 

Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch was the first to break the story, with Yahoo Sports' Tim Brown and FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal also adding contract details.

And Beltran comes off the board. My Christmas wish list is disappearing fast. Garza is still available.

[jung]

Although a lotta' guys are disappearing and he is not perfect Bailey would seem to be a good pick up for the Sox. Could give them some flexibility in how they use Aceves and Bard. Even though he is not that great, I would not be surprised if they are making it painful for the Sox to do something for Bailey as the Sox pitching shortcomings must be pretty well known.