2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Dojji]

Every third base coach sucks. I don't know why people get so pissy about it. He's always the most despised coach on the team. It's tough because armchair coaches always know better since they see an outcome 1 second later. Thrown out at home? Coach was wrong. Held at 3rd? Coach isn't aggressive enough. No one blames a 1b coach when a runner gets picked off or doubled up.

 

That's a factor, but even if you control for it, Bogar was bad.

 

The last really decent 3B coach we've had was DeMarlo Hale.

[mvp 78]

It's a 100% subjective argument. Can't seem to find WAR or VORC stats anywhere.

[Bellhorn04]

That's a factor, but even if you control for it, Bogar was bad.

 

The last really decent 3B coach we've had was DeMarlo Hale.

 

And Hale took a lot of grief for being too cautious. As I recall Manny ran through Hale's stop sign several times and made it home safely. Maybe Manny will be a good third base coach.

[mvp 78]

And Hale took a lot of grief for being too cautious. As I recall Manny ran through Hale's stop sign several times and made it home safely. Maybe Manny will be a good third base coach.

 

I'm into this. Would he still have to serve his suspension if he comes back as coach?

[Dojji]

And Hale took a lot of grief for being too cautious. As I recall Manny ran through Hale's stop sign several times and made it home safely.

 

When you have a good offense, you're often better off erring on the side of caution.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Forsyth' date=' I like a lot of the stuff you write but I don't appreciate you telling Jacksonian that he looks dumber and dumber with each passing post. He has layed out a case that makes a lot of sense to some of us and while he may be off a shade there is more to like in what he says than not. Besides, it is becoming evident that what we're doing here in nothing more than an exercise in written verbiage, and with the risk of me looking dumb, it seems more and more likely that the Red Sox are not going to spend any more money this season in signing free agents. Ortiz' signing has sucked the wind out of our budget and you factor in the raises that Ellbury is getting, plus Gonzales' big contract kicking in, where is any money left to spend on players unless Henry decides to open his wallet and let the moths out.[/quote']

 

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but every single time anything mildly positive comes up for the Red Sox, or a trade proposition is made, Jackso always comes in with often-times irrational negativity and it gets a little old. Everytime one of our players gets hurt, they're out for the season and it's a tough recovery, but if the Yankees players get hurt, they'll be back in a week. The Yankees prospects are all blue chips, but none of the Red Sox prospects are more than a 4th OF.

 

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me, but just look up stats before you do. He said Aceves is going to get killed in the 2nd time through the lineup if he becomes a SP, but his stats were consistent with Sabathia's when facing a batter for the 2nd time in a game. It gets really annoying.

[VA Sox Fan]

Cubs are also reportedly shopping Marshall. He's a really good lefty for the pen. He'd be a great 8th inning guy.

 

I heard on Yahoo Sports radio this morning that it looks like he's going to the Reds.

[a700hitter]

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but every single time anything mildly positive comes up for the Red Sox, or a trade proposition is made, Jackso always comes in with often-times irrational negativity and it gets a little old. Everytime one of our players gets hurt, they're out for the season and it's a tough recovery, but if the Yankees players get hurt, they'll be back in a week. The Yankees prospects are all blue chips, but none of the Red Sox prospects are more than a 4th OF.

 

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me, but just look up stats before you do. He said Aceves is going to get killed in the 2nd time through the lineup if he becomes a SP, but his stats were consistent with Sabathia's when facing a batter for the 2nd time in a game. It gets really annoying.

It's just part of Jackoi's shtick. You shouldn't let it get to you. He's. A master pot stirrer. I don't mind when he throws water all over our hopes. He's a Yankee fan. That is what they do. He has other techniques that bother me. At this time of year, he might jump on the bandwagon about the Sox getting some player that he knows will not help the team. This is one of his more subtle and devious techniques, because he'll validate a number of Sox fans about the player. Recently, someone suggested getting Arthur Rhodes, who has specialized in choking, but he has made choking to the Yankees an art form. I was waiting for Jacko to jump in with great compliments about Rhodes. He must have been busy that day and missed that post, because he said nothing. His most annoying technique is his very lame way of hexing the Sox. He'll declare our victories as complete prematurely when we are still biting our nails down to the bone. Just remember, if you let him know that he's gotten under your skin, you are giving him exactly what he wants.

[jacksonianmarch]

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but every single time anything mildly positive comes up for the Red Sox, or a trade proposition is made, Jackso always comes in with often-times irrational negativity and it gets a little old. Everytime one of our players gets hurt, they're out for the season and it's a tough recovery, but if the Yankees players get hurt, they'll be back in a week. The Yankees prospects are all blue chips, but none of the Red Sox prospects are more than a 4th OF.

 

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me, but just look up stats before you do. He said Aceves is going to get killed in the 2nd time through the lineup if he becomes a SP, but his stats were consistent with Sabathia's when facing a batter for the 2nd time in a game. It gets really annoying.

 

#1- You made a trade proposal for an elite defensive CFer with good offensive production on a team that won their division, and your proposal included a 4th OFer and a bunch of long range prospects. I showed you it was ridiculous, and you lost it like a pregnant teen.

 

#2- I followed Aceves throughout his minor league career. He doesnt have one plus pitch and he throws all his pitches up front. He isnt like most pitchers who showcase their fastball and curve first time through, work in the change the second time through and then show the slider/cutter the third time through. This means batters get a feel for him. And, you are using big league numbers that are of small sample size. I will tell you right now, as a fan of Aceves' throughout his short career, he will do well for you in short stints, he will not, though, be a solid starter. I wish we had him, I loved the guy, but he should always be a swing man.

 

#3- 700 is right...

[SoxFanForsyth]

#1- You made a trade proposal for an elite defensive CFer with good offensive production on a team that won their division, and your proposal included a 4th OFer and a bunch of long range prospects. I showed you it was ridiculous, and you lost it like a pregnant teen.

 

#2- I followed Aceves throughout his minor league career. He doesnt have one plus pitch and he throws all his pitches up front. He isnt like most pitchers who showcase their fastball and curve first time through, work in the change the second time through and then show the slider/cutter the third time through. This means batters get a feel for him. And, you are using big league numbers that are of small sample size. I will tell you right now, as a fan of Aceves' throughout his short career, he will do well for you in short stints, he will not, though, be a solid starter. I wish we had him, I loved the guy, but he should always be a swing man.

 

#3- 700 is right...

 

 

1. A "4th OF" that OPS'd better than 2 of the starting 3 OF on the D-Backs last year. How does that make sense?

 

2. In his entire career, hitters OPS .709 off of Aceves in their 2nd AB. That encompasses almost 200 PA. Even though that's a mediocre sample size for these projections, I still think it's pretty unfair for you to definitively say that he will get ripped in the 2nd time through the lineup when his stats say otherwise.

 

3. I have no doubt that he is, but as much as I get annoyed about the ridiculous comments that you make, I still enjoy the debate.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Every third base coach sucks. I don't know why people get so pissy about it. He's always the most despised coach on the team. It's tough because armchair coaches always know better since they see an outcome 1 second later. Thrown out at home? Coach was wrong. Held at 3rd? Coach isn't aggressive enough. No one blames a 1b coach when a runner gets picked off or doubled up.

 

Of course there is no superior 3rd base coaches but let me tell you, Bogar was an idiot. I've seen him make some dumbass plays that make me question how is it possible to be that dumb. There was times where half the board wanted to kill him. 1B coach probably didn't get as much s*** because Bogar f***ed us over so many times.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I appreciate it, and I'm sorry you feel that way, but every single time anything mildly positive comes up for the Red Sox, or a trade proposition is made, Jackso always comes in with often-times irrational negativity and it gets a little old. Everytime one of our players gets hurt, they're out for the season and it's a tough recovery, but if the Yankees players get hurt, they'll be back in a week. The Yankees prospects are all blue chips, but none of the Red Sox prospects are more than a 4th OF.

 

I don't mind if someone disagrees with me, but just look up stats before you do. He said Aceves is going to get killed in the 2nd time through the lineup if he becomes a SP, but his stats were consistent with Sabathia's when facing a batter for the 2nd time in a game. It gets really annoying.

 

....in other words.

 

[table]Topic|Team|Content

Prospect|Yankees|The player in question is made of 150% pure awesomeness. Fear us.

Prospect|Sox|He could be good, but this is why he won't be.

Signing|Yankees|This is the missing piece. We'll win 160 games, and the umps will screw us out of 2.

Signing|Sox|Risky move, overpaid here, they'll regret this.

Injury|Yankees|They don't get hurt. Hypothetically, if they did, the recovery will be speedy with no impact to ability.

Injury|Sox|Everyone is a ticking time bomb. Once hurt, they'll never heal right.[/table]

[SoxFanForsyth]

....in other words.

 

I mean. If you wanted to articulate it to perfection, then yes. This is what it would be :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[SoxFanForsyth]

Of course there is no superior 3rd base coaches but let me tell you' date=' Bogar was an idiot. I've seen him make some dumbass plays that make me question how is it possible to be that dumb. There was times where half the board wanted to kill him. 1B coach probably didn't get as much s*** because Bogar f***ed us over so many times.[/quote']

 

Bogar was horrendous. It was like he didn't know the situation of the game. I saw, entirely too many times, a situation with 0 or 1 out and Bogar sends the runner from 2nd, and he would get thrown out by 15 feet. It was horrible.

[a700hitter]

Bogar was horrendous. It was like he didn't know the situation of the game. I saw' date=' entirely too many times, a situation with 0 or 1 out and Bogar sends the runner from 2nd, and he would get thrown out by 15 feet. It was horrible.[/quote']That's right. This is not a case of second guessing by the fans. You don't send home tanks like Youk or Ortiz from first base with no one out unless they will make it easily standing up. You don't send them if a good relay has a possibility of getting them. It's just stupid to do so, regardless of whether they score. No second guessing involved.

[redsoxfan3]

I like us hiring McClure as the pitching coach. I think he deserves a shot. He has a lot of experience as a pitching coach with the Rockies and Royals. I am not too sure about Bogar being the bench coach, but at least he will be in the dugout and not at 3B anymore. I know that not many people like Bogar, but I do respect his career .601 win percentage as a manager. I think that he could be a decent person in the clubhouse as the bench coach. If the FO feels that he deserves a shot, then I am willing to give him one. Jerry Royster could be an interesting move as the 3B coach if that is who the FO chooses. The things I like about Royster is that he has managing experience, experience actually playing 3B, and knows Valentine. The thing that I like is that we finally have almost all of the coaching pieces put into place. Now hopefully we can find some good deals to improve our pitching.

[User Name]

#1- You made a trade proposal for an elite defensive CFer with good offensive production on a team that won their division, and your proposal included a 4th OFer and a bunch of long range prospects. I showed you it was ridiculous, and you lost it like a pregnant teen.

 

#2- I followed Aceves throughout his minor league career. He doesnt have one plus pitch and he throws all his pitches up front. He isnt like most pitchers who showcase their fastball and curve first time through, work in the change the second time through and then show the slider/cutter the third time through. This means batters get a feel for him. And, you are using big league numbers that are of small sample size. I will tell you right now, as a fan of Aceves' throughout his short career, he will do well for you in short stints, he will not, though, be a solid starter. I wish we had him, I loved the guy, but he should always be a swing man.

 

#3- 700 is right...

 

#3 is an open admission of trolling. Kudos.

[a700hitter]

A's Progressing Toward Gio Gonzalez Trade

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 22 at 1:10pm CST]

 

The A's are moving closer to a Gio Gonzalez trade, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (all links go to Twitter). The bidding is down to two teams, one of which is the Nationals. The Marlins and Red Sox may also be involved, but the Rangers are not. The Yankees and A's never built momentum toward a deal involving Gonzalez, Olney reports. The Mariners had discussed Gonzalez and it's not clear if they're involved in the current trade talks.

 

The Nationals are believed to be willing to include multiple top prospects for Gonzalez, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. Prospects such as Brad Peacock, Destin Hood, Eury Perez and A.J. Cole could be available to the Athletics. Derek Norris is in the discussion, Olney writes.

 

Gonzalez is under team control through 2015 and has reached the 200-inning plateau in each of the past two seasons without posting an ERA above 3.23. However, no MLB pitcher has walked more opponents in the past two seasons than Gonzalez and he's about to get expensive through arbitration (projected 2012 salary of $4.2MM).

They are moving closer to a trade, but it doesn't say that a trade is close. We shall see.

[a700hitter]

Earlier in the week, I read that Beltran was expected to make a decision by this weekend.

[example1]

Cafardo just tweeted that the Sox are out on Beltran. I'm $urprised that they were in at all, after they $igned Ortiz.

 

Beltran just didn't seem like a fit in that lineup.

 

It does sound like they are remaining very aggressive on Gio though, which is not a bad thing--depending on the price. Gio is a fine #3 or #4 starter in the AL East, especially at his age.

 

If they land Gio then I imagine them going with Aceves as #5 and Bard as closer. It would be better if they also signed Madson as closer, kept Bard in the rotation, and kept Aceves in the 'pen. A rotation of Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Gonzalez and Bard would be fearsome.

[a700hitter]

Cafardo just tweeted that the Sox are out on Beltran. I'm $urprised that they were in at all, after they $igned Ortiz.

 

Beltran just didn't seem like a fit in that lineup.

 

It does sound like they are remaining very aggressive on Gio though, which is not a bad thing--depending on the price. Gio is a fine #3 or #4 starter in the AL East, especially at his age.

 

If they land Gio then I imagine them going with Aceves as #5 and Bard as closer. It would be better if they also signed Madson as closer, kept Bard in the rotation, and kept Aceves in the 'pen. A rotation of Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Gonzalez and Bard would be fearsome.

I think Beltran would have been a great fit in the lineup. He could have shared some time with Kalish. Beltran's knees should probably not be pushed beyond 140 games in the OF. Kalish could also spell Ellsbury and Crawford, and with injuries, he'd probably pick up close to 300 ABs. After signing Ortiz, Beltran didn't fit the payroll. Too bad. He is an extraordinary talent, even though he has been slowed a bit by his knees.

[a700hitter]

If Beltran is down to the Jays, Rays and Cards, I have to bet that it will be the Cards. I don't see that playing on turf in Toronto or Tamps would be in the best interests of his knees.

[Meh]

They are moving closer to a trade' date=' but it doesn't say that a trade is close. We shall see.[/quote']

 

Looks like Gio might be moved today...

 

2:20pm: The Red Sox are still discussing both Andrew Bailey and Gonzalez with the Athletics, tweets Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe. The Red Sox "obviously won't get both," Cafardo writes.

 

2:14pm: It looks like the Nationals and Red Sox are the finalists for Gonzalez, tweets Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com. Peter Gammons of MLB Network tweets that the Red Sox or Nationals will likely acquire Gonzalez today. Both Heyman and Gammons suggest the Nationals are the favorites to obtain the left-hander.

-MLBTR

 

Hoenstly, I'm not taking a s*** on the Red Sox here, even if SawxFrostFan or whatever thinks I am but I think the Nats get Gio. Even though I REALLY Wish the Sox do cause he would get DESTROYED in the AL East with that command. But I can see the Red Sox getting Bailey for one of two packages....

 

1. Kalish, Ranaudo and Alcantara

2. WMB, Reddick and Anderson

[MNSoxChief102]

Looks like we're going all in on both... kinda excited but not all that eager to give up the entire farm for Bailey and Gonzalez

 

2:44pm: The Red Sox are trying to get Gonzalez and Bailey in a "monster deal," tweets Rosenthal. The Rays are also in on Bailey and the Nationals are the team to beat on Gonzalez, Rosenthal reports.

[Meh]

Looks like we're going all in on both... kinda excited but not all that eager to give up the entire farm for Bailey and Gonzalez

 

Even if this deal doesn't go through, I'd love to see the names that were being exchanged. I wish GMs would write tell all books, instead of s***** celebs.

[MNSoxChief102]

Even if this deal doesn't go through' date=' I'd love to see the names that were being exchanged. I wish GMs would write tell all books, instead of s***** celebs.[/quote']

 

No doubt... I would love to be a fly on the wall in Benny's office today. To get both Gonzo and Bailey would be awesome, but the prospects involved in that kind of deal would be ridiculous.

[SoxFanForsyth]

For Gio AND Bailey?!?! s***'s about to get reallllllly interesting!

 

Gotta be something like WMB + Jacobs + Ranaudo + Kalish + Lavarnway. Maybe even tack on Alex Wilson to that and a lesser known.

 

Hopefully they can get someone else back with it. (I'm bias and hoping for Sonny Gray, he's a Vandy kid and I've played golf with him a few times. Good guy).

[example1]

For Gio AND Bailey?!?! s***'s about to get reallllllly interesting!

 

Gotta be something like WMB + Jacobs + Ranaudo + Kalish + Lavarnway. Maybe even tack on Alex Wilson to that and a lesser known.

 

Hopefully they can get someone else back with it. (I'm bias and hoping for Sonny Gray, he's a Vandy kid and I've played golf with him a few times. Good guy).

 

Christ, that's a lot of talent to give up. Too much for my taste. Keep Kalish or Lavarnway and throw in someone else and I'm okay with it.

 

Also, they could probably get a lot by opening up Bogaerts for trade. If the build something around him they could give up less "now" talent and get more bang for their prospect buck.

 

Will be interesting to see what happens.

 

I assume if they land Bailey and Gio then that will pretty much be it for the offseason.

[MNSoxChief102]

Nationals To Acquire Gio Gonzalez

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/nationals-to-acquire-gio-gonzalez.html

 

The Athletics will send Gio Gonzalez to the Nationals for A.J. Cole, Derek Norris, Brad Peacock and Tom Milone, ESPN.com's Keith Law reports (on Twitter).

 

Gonzalez is under team control through 2015 and has reached the 200-inning plateau in each of the past two seasons without posting an ERA above 3.23. He'll join Stephen Strasburg and Jordan Zimmermann atop the Nationals' rotation. However, no MLB pitcher has walked more opponents than Gonzalez in the past two seasons and he's about to get expensive through arbitration (projected 2012 salary of $4.2MM).

[example1]

That's a really big package (what she said) for Gio Gonzalez.

 

Hope Sox are still in on Bailey and that they will be aggressive for other SPs. Can't say I'll be devistated if the report is true and the Sox didn't empty farm for Gio.