2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

For one, I highly doubt they will. I don't know why you'd guess that as it looks like their trying to do everything for the cheap right now. Even with the Kuroda rumors they said they'd need to make room on their payroll to fit him.

 

For two, they don't need to go over the cap. If a team needed to do that to win, then every year it would be the Yankees winning, seeing as no other team goes over it. Other teams find ways without shelling out $14 million to an aging DH, spending money on aging outfielders (Cuddyer, Beltran, Willingham), spending money on foreign pitchers (Darvish), spending money on overrated pitchers (CJ Wilson), etc.

 

It's called a farm system. It's call trades. It's called signings like Aceves.

 

Spending money doesn't always fix the problems, in fact it often causes more problems. Everytime this team makes a free agent signing because they need said player despite the fact that said player doesn't actually fit their team. That's what everyone says when asked why they signed Lackey (he was the best option out there). Or when they signed Crawford, etc.

 

Commenter---yes, you made some good points and also make a lot of sense, but if we do it your way you better be prepared to write off next season and maybe the one after that because we don't have the prospects ready to move in except for Lavarnway and maybe Middlebrooks. We have to do some upgrading this winter if we want to compete for a division title next season. A good starting pitcher is a must, a closer as well, not to mention building a bullpen and that will take three decent pitchers to get that done. We don't want to be too left handed in our lineup, which is ridiculous playing half our games as Fenway, so we need a RH outfielder. How do you propose we get them unless we sign free agents or make trades? See the dilemma? If we had the prospects we could maybe a move that way but under Epstein our farm system has taken a hit the past three or four years. His misjudging of talent has saddled with duds like Weiland, Lars Anderson, Michael Bowden and most likely Felix Doubrant. See the problem?

[example1]

I can't believe I just spent 8 minutes reading today's-worth of posts. What has happened to this board? Ugh.

 

Get over Papelbon, he is gone. User Name keeps noting the dead horse being beaten, but nobody seems to notice.

 

A few years ago those of you currently bitching about how irreplacable Bard is as a setup guy hadn't evem heard of Bard. A few years before that you hadn't heard of Okijima. Now you're freaking out because someone else--you don't yet know who--will have that role. Plenty of good teams work out who that player will be as the season goes on, and load up on decent arms so there are enough to choose from.

 

Stop freaking out. You're not smarter than Ben Cherington and Larry Lucchino when it comes to putting together an actual baseball team.

[jung]

The Sox were over the cap in the the 2007 WS series year, the year before it and the year after. The Phils will very likely go over the cap this year and as noted the Yanks have been over it 4 years running now.

 

The Sox will have a very hard time staying under if they do sign Ortiz under arbitration.

 

It seems clear from the new CBA that baseballs powers have decided not to punish teams for going over one or two years running but to really let you have it if you go over three and especially 4 years running.

[iortiz]

For one, I highly doubt they will. I don't know why you'd guess that as it looks like their trying to do everything for the cheap right now. Even with the Kuroda rumors they said they'd need to make room on their payroll to fit him.

 

For two, they don't need to go over the cap. If a team needed to do that to win, then every year it would be the Yankees winning, seeing as no other team goes over it. Other teams find ways without shelling out $14 million to an aging DH, spending money on aging outfielders (Cuddyer, Beltran, Willingham), spending money on foreign pitchers (Darvish), spending money on overrated pitchers (CJ Wilson), etc.

 

It's called a farm system. It's call trades. It's called signings like Aceves.

 

Spending money doesn't always fix the problems, in fact it often causes more problems. Everytime this team makes a free agent signing because they need said player despite the fact that said player doesn't actually fit their team. That's what everyone says when asked why they signed Lackey (he was the best option out there). Or when they signed Crawford, etc.

 

What I've been saying is that we have a limited budget before go over the cap and a lot holes to fill, regardless seems that they are really considering resign Ortiz. If they resign him, they will eat likely the half of that budget (+-24 M) and still several holes to fill, so... Reason why IMO they will likely go over the cap, that's all.

 

For the record, I'm not against in signinig low/mid-class players or pay large contracts or play with potential prospects or making trades or even pay for experienced players. I've been saying that each case/situation/player needs to be analyzed carefully in order to emit an opinion/judgement.

[User Name]

I can't believe I just spent 8 minutes reading today's-worth of posts. What has happened to this board? Ugh.

 

Get over Papelbon, he is gone. User Name keeps noting the dead horse being beaten, but nobody seems to notice.

 

A few years ago those of you currently bitching about how irreplacable Bard is as a setup guy hadn't evem heard of Bard. A few years before that you hadn't heard of Okijima. Now you're freaking out because someone else--you don't yet know who--will have that role. Plenty of good teams work out who that player will be as the season goes on, and load up on decent arms so there are enough to choose from.

 

Stop freaking out. You're not smarter than Ben Cherington and Larry Lucchino when it comes to putting together an actual baseball team.

 

^This.

[iortiz]

I can't believe I just spent 8 minutes reading today's-worth of posts. What has happened to this board? Ugh.

 

Get over Papelbon, he is gone. User Name keeps noting the dead horse being beaten, but nobody seems to notice.

 

A few years ago those of you currently bitching about how irreplacable Bard is as a setup guy hadn't evem heard of Bard. A few years before that you hadn't heard of Okijima. Now you're freaking out because someone else--you don't yet know who--will have that role. Plenty of good teams work out who that player will be as the season goes on, and load up on decent arms so there are enough to choose from.

 

Stop freaking out. You're not smarter than Ben Cherington and Larry Lucchino when it comes to putting together an actual baseball team.

 

Nobody is bitching, Nobody is freaking out. Nobody is beating horses. Why do you overeact like that? Because we don't share your point of view? We bitch, because we don't share your point of view?. Sorry E1, you are wrong.

 

We are making posts. We are sharing ideas. We are talking about baseball. Nobody is disrespecting nobody E1.

 

I'm surprised you overreact like this. You are not like this E1.

 

If you don't agree in one post, share your arguments, if you don't want to read those bored posts, ignore them, as simple as that. But do not limit other posters in what to say or think. Stop callin people bitchers or whatever. In the end this is all about, to share our ideas.

[User Name]

Well so far he isn't 700. Yea' date=' I know, it is early but already Nathan and Bell are gone and if they are really thinking of making Bard the closer they better get a brain scan right away. I get the impression watching Bard that there are times when pressure overwhelms him. I saw a number of times early on when we got off to such a rotten start and in September when we fell apart that Bard pitched more like Barf. He started losing control and the most inopportune time and then tried to overcome it by almost aiming the ball for a strike that never reached the catcher's glove but when carroming off the wall somewhere. I do not think he is fit to be our closer, and even if he was in the eyes of some here, who pitches the eigthth inning? Who pitches the seventh when needed? Who is our long man? Who the hell is left in our bullpen anyway besides Bard and the miserable Morales?[/quote']

 

Fred, how can a couple of games from Bard you've watched compare to the opinion of scouts, his former manager and the upper management of the Red Sox? I'm not saying i necessarily disagree, but i don't think watching a pitcher a couple times can tell you whether or not he's a viable closer. Telling those who think he may be suited for the role (and who may have watched him more than you) to "get a brain scan" is highly presumptuous and insulting.

 

Also, there are a number of arms available and a number of directions the Sox can go. Let's wait until that direction has been taken so we can actually answer the questions you're making.

[User Name]

Nobody is bitching, Nobody is freaking out. Nobody is beating horses. Why do you overeact like that? Because we don't share your point of view? We bitch, because we don't share your point of view?. Sorry E1, you are wrong.

 

We are making posts. We are sharing ideas. We are talking about baseball. Nobody is disrespecting nobody E1.

 

I'm surprised you overreact like this. You are not like this E1.

 

If you don't agree in one post, share your arguments, if you don't want to read those bored posts, ignore them, as simple as that. But do not limit other posters in what to say or think. Stop callin people bitchers or whatever. In the end this is all about, to share our ideas.

 

Your "holier than thou" attitude is annoying to the umpteenth degree. Especially when you take time out to call out other posters frequently. Be consistent and honest.

[example1]

Fred' date=' how can a couple of games from Bard you've watched compare to the opinion of scouts, his former manager and the upper management of the Red Sox? I'm not saying i necessarily disagree, but i don't think [b']watching a pitcher a couple times can tell you whether or not he's a viable closer[/b]. Telling those who think he may be suited for the role (and who may have watched him more than you) to "get a brain scan" is highly presumptuous and insulting.

 

Shouldn't the same also apply to those who have already written off the utility of Doubront and Weiland based on very limited viewing? These are very young players who have progressed through their respective levels with lots of success. They deserve time to show if they can produce or not.

[User Name]

Shouldn't the same also apply to those who have already written off the utility of Doubront and Weiland based on very limited viewing? These are very young players who have progressed through their respective levels with lots of success. They deserve time to show if they can produce or not.

 

Good point. Expect the hail of "sugarcoater FO apologist!!!11!!!" posts to follow.

[iortiz]

Well iortiz, it is obvious you see the problem and aren't being swayed by some of the mumbo-jumbo eminating from the front office. You might decide it would be better for you to hold fast in Monterrey down Mexico way rather than spend your hard earned money watching a miserable team in action, and you can be that I will holding fast in Southern California if I believe the FO hasn't done all it can to put a winning team on the field. You know as well as I do that it costs a lot of money to make a trip to Boston, or even to Texas or Anaheim for that matter. You would like to know that when you make such a trip you're going to believe that your team has a good chance to win so the trip was worthwhile.

 

Frankly, I don't know if the front office is going to spend the money to upgrade the team, or whether they will make the smart trades that can put us into the post-season next year. I suppose we'll get a hint of things to come in the next week during the winter meetings. Commenter made some good points as well, saying that spending money doesn't always work. Lackey is proof of that, and maybe Crawford too, but as I will remind Commenter, Epstein did a pretty mediocre job of drafting the past five years despite what has been written. Notice Westmoreland, Fuentes, Reddick, Ellsbury, Kalish??? All left hand hitting outfielders. Where the hell were the quality pitchers drafted? This has to change so we are not caught short with a lack of pitchers as we were this season. I mean Kyle Weiland was the best we could do? It got so bad that we had to keep sending out the worthless and over=the=hill Wakefield. Again, we have to do a better job in that area, but for next season we may have to give up some young talent for quality established players, or just take our chances and go with some young players like Lavarnway. Paying Ortiz $14 million isn't going to get the job done.

 

I've been planning this trip year after year but sometimes is the job, sometimes is my family, sometimes comes other priorities, the true is that I have not found out the right time, my bad.

 

Hopefully next season is the right season in order to make that trip, and yes, hopefully I have the opportunity to watch my team as a WS contender.

 

I'm very excited about it.

[example1]

I'm awaiting the opportunity to see what Ben Cherington will be like as a GM. I'm not an apologist for them and, frankly, think that Theo buffered a lot of Larry Lucchino's influence which could have been even worse.

 

I'm done with the FO arguments though. I just hate this point in the offseason. Nobody knows what the Sox are going to do, yet until it happens the posts just sound like they are bound to do nothing. It's absurd.

 

For all we know the Sox could be planning a big push for Yu Darvish.

[User Name]

I'm awaiting the opportunity to see what Ben Cherington will be like as a GM. I'm not an apologist for them and, frankly, think that Theo buffered a lot of Larry Lucchino's influence which could have been even worse.

 

I'm done with the FO arguments though. I just hate this point in the offseason. Nobody knows what the Sox are going to do, yet until it happens the posts just sound like they are bound to do nothing. It's absurd.

 

For all we know the Sox could be planning a big push for Yu Darvish.

 

I'm not on board with that though. For the right price and having Valentine as manager, he may be a great acquisition, but too many "ifs".

[iortiz]

Commenter---yes' date=' you made some good points and also make a lot of sense, but if we do it your way you better be prepared to write off next season and maybe the one after that because we don't have the prospects ready to move in except for Lavarnway and maybe Middlebrooks. We have to do some upgrading this winter if we want to compete for a division title next season. A good starting pitcher is a must, a closer as well, not to mention building a bullpen and that will take three decent pitchers to get that done. We don't want to be too left handed in our lineup, which is ridiculous playing half our games as Fenway, so we need a RH outfielder. How do you propose we get them unless we sign free agents or make trades? See the dilemma? If we had the prospects we could maybe a move that way but under Epstein our farm system has taken a hit the past three or four years. His misjudging of talent has saddled with duds like Weiland, Lars Anderson, Michael Bowden and most likely Felix Doubrant. See the problem?[/quote']

 

And depth fred, and depth, you always forget

 

Agree about your post.

 

I'm not sure how our FO are going to build this 2012 team but seems that at least they will likely go over the LT and maybe beyond.

 

Will be interesting.

[example1]

I'm not on board with that though. For the right price and having Valentine as manager' date=' he may be a great acquisition, but too many "ifs".[/quote']

 

I'm torn on the issue. It was more an example of the FO investing lots of money and scouting on something that nobody here hears anything about right now.

 

 

In general my view is that if you are going to be ok with scouts and front office types making decisions about who can be a good closer or prospect, those same people deserve the latitude to decide whether a player like Darvish or Cespedes is worth a big investment too.

 

Do you think CJ Wilson would be a better choice? Seems like a very similar spot as in 2006-2007 when they signed Dice-K over Zito et al., Just not great market.

[User Name]

I'm torn on the issue. It was more an example of the FO investing lots of money and scouting on something that nobody here hears anything about right now.

 

 

In general my view is that if you are going to be ok with scouts and front office types making decisions about who can be a good closer or prospect, those same people deserve the latitude to decide whether a player like Darvish or Cespedes is worth a big investment too.

 

Do you think CJ Wilson would be a better choice? Seems like a very similar spot as in 2006-2007 when they signed Dice-K over Zito et al., Just not great market.

 

Obviously that's just my perspective, and it's why i mentioned the fact that he could be a great sign, but i just don't have enough information to form a real opinion on the matter. If they think he'll be worth the investment, they should go for it.

 

Also, easy no on Wilson from my part, mostly because of the fact that he's had injury problems before and has only been a successful starter for two years. Same as with Darvish, if after due diligence they think he's a viable option, then go for it.

 

However, Cherington said they would re-examine the way they deal with free agents. This off-season will be a good barometer of whether or not they learned from past mistakes.

[redsoxfan3]

There are a lot of people stuck on Paps. He is out. The only thing is to get over it and realize he is gone. I will miss him, but we all knew he was asking too much. We can find another closer to replace. Yes, that closer might not be as good, but as long as we get someone who can finish out games for us. We are in talks with Madson and depending on what the FO wants to do, I won't mind if we go out and get him.

 

We are probably going to get Papi again and I know a lot of people are against resigning him, especially to 14 million, but it is what it is. It is going to be hard for us to stay under the luxury tax. We are meeting with Oswalt's and Wilson's agent (the same agent) over the winter meetings. I am excited about that. If we can ink either of those two, then that will be great for our rotation. Especially since we have either Bard or Aceves in the rotation. That gives us 5 starters and potentially 6 if we need depth. Whether Aceves or Bard makes the rotation, the other will be the set-up guy and still could potentially fill a starting role if we are plagued with injuries throughout the year.

 

If we sign either Wilson, Oswalt, or Darvish, then that is one solid starter that we need. Darvish will probably cost us a guaranteed 100 million when it is all said ad done, so I'm not sure if I would be all for acquiring him. We need one reliable starter regardless if we want to compete. Whether that is signing someone or by trading. Everyone is getting really anxious and the winter meetings haven't even started yet. Give it some time.

 

If we get Papi, Madson (or another reliable closer), one of the previous starting pitchers mentioned above (or another starting pitcher through free agency or trade), and then a RH right fielder, then this team will be able to compete. Hypothetically speaking, say we resign Papi, sign Madson, sign Oswalt, and a RH outfielder, we are going to be over the luxury tax, and it is as simple as that. I know the FO and fans don't want that to happen, but it is very possible we do. Also, we are probably going to make a serious run after Luis Ayala. He is another pitcher like Aceves who could play a big role for this team in the pen. I could see us making a serious run after either Cespedes or Darvish. I don't think we will sit back and wait around after or during the winter meetings. There is a lot of work to be done.

 

Look for us to resign Papi really soon and then go from there. Just be patient. Everything will work out. Offensively we are not going to be much different than last year. Our offense was really good last year. Hopefully Kalish can have a good spring and get a lot of action in RF for us this year. Odds are Crawford turns things around, he can't do much worse. Even if he has a similar year as last year our offense was still good. I want to see something reliable out of Jenks as well. That would be a bonus though, because I don't think anybody is expecting much from him. If Youk can stay healthy, there is another decent player offensivley and defensively we can rely on. Also, Lavarnway will be an upgrade as the backup catcher in terms of offense, so that will be something big for us. The rotation and the bullpen will come together as we start to make moves and signings we have to be patient though. We have three good starters already in the system, now we just need two more, with two in-house options potentially there.

 

We get leadership out of Pedroia that is going to be extremely important. It wouldn't surprise me if he has an MVP type season. Offensively we are set. I am looking forward to this team. We relied on Lackey and Wake last year in the rotation, anyone is a step up from them and that improves our rotation. We downgrade at closer, but I can guarantee you we will have someone worth giving a shot.

 

Let's see how the winter meetings go and see what happens from there. A start could be resigning Papi, signing Madson, and signing Ayala. I would be happy if we got all three moves done. Then we only have to worry about signing one SP, two more bullpen arms, and a RH outfielder. With the outfielder, why not even look for a cheap utility outfielder that is RH. We could have Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish/Reddick and then the utility outfielder getting some time at all three when someone needs a day off or even can platoon in RF if we can use Reddick for trade value. There are so many questions to be answered. Also, give Weiland another year to develop in AAA and he might be decent for 2013. He knows what to expect at the major league level, now he just needs to develop more to fulfill his potential. I am expecting Doubront to develop more as well. Both have pretty decent ceilings. After Papi is gone, we have Lavarnway ready to go, when Middlebrooks fulfills his potential, he is ready to go at 3B. I hope Crawford, Kalish, and Ells can be our outfielders for the next few years.

 

There are a lot of people that are down on this team, stay optimistic. We have good players in our system. I'm excited about Blake Swihart as well and Xander Boegarts. Both could be in the majors within the next few years. In 2015, could you imagine Crawford in LF, Ells in CF, Kalish in RF, Middlebrooks at 3B, Boegarts at SS, Pedey at 2B, AGon at 1B, Swihart/Salty/Lavarnway at C, and Lavarnway/Youk at DH? Call me a wishful thinker, but the potential is there. Buchholz, Lester, Bard, Aceves are all hopefully going to be around. With others as well. We have talent, we have good prospects, we will continue to develop good prospects. This team will be competing for a while.

 

Whatever way the FO decides to go, I will fully support. They know way more about what this team needs than any fan does, that is why they get paid as much as they do. We can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic about that, it's your choice. I'm choosing to be optimistic, it is less stress for me in an already stressful world. As fans it is not our job to fret the things that we cannot control. Whether that be if this team decides to stay under the luxury tax or go over it. For one, if we sign Papi I would not be surprised if we go over it. I'm excited about this team next year. We will be a contender either way. A lot of people forget that two of our starters sucked last year and was a reason why we didn't compete as well as we could have. That will be fixed. The management decisions were even questioned. Papi even was wondering why the hell Aceves wasn't given the ball every fifth day. We have a new fresh, experienced manager to get this team back on track with new management decisions and a new managing style.

 

I support BC and Bobby V. They will be a great combo going forward. Let's go Sox! Let's get a World Series in 2012. f*** Papelbon and his greediness. We will survive without him. We will survive with Papi. At the end of the day, we are the same team as last year, with new management and new pitching let's go out, get this team in-shape, prevent injuries, and play some baseball!

[iortiz]

There are a lot of people stuck on Paps. He is out. The only thing is to get over it and realize he is gone. I will miss him, but we all knew he was asking too much. We can find another closer to replace. Yes, that closer might not be as good, but as long as we get someone who can finish out games for us. We are in talks with Madson and depending on what the FO wants to do, I won't mind if we go out and get him.

 

We are probably going to get Papi again and I know a lot of people are against resigning him, especially to 14 million, but it is what it is. It is going to be hard for us to stay under the luxury tax. We are meeting with Oswalt's and Wilson's agent (the same agent) over the winter meetings. I am excited about that. If we can ink either of those two, then that will be great for our rotation. Especially since we have either Bard or Aceves in the rotation. That gives us 5 starters and potentially 6 if we need depth. Whether Aceves or Bard makes the rotation, the other will be the set-up guy and still could potentially fill a starting role if we are plagued with injuries throughout the year.

 

If we sign either Wilson, Oswalt, or Darvish, then that is one solid starter that we need. Darvish will probably cost us a guaranteed 100 million when it is all said ad done, so I'm not sure if I would be all for acquiring him. We need one reliable starter regardless if we want to compete. Whether that is signing someone or by trading. Everyone is getting really anxious and the winter meetings haven't even started yet. Give it some time.

 

If we get Papi, Madson (or another reliable closer), one of the previous starting pitchers mentioned above (or another starting pitcher through free agency or trade), and then a RH right fielder, then this team will be able to compete. Hypothetically speaking, say we resign Papi, sign Madson, sign Oswalt, and a RH outfielder, we are going to be over the luxury tax, and it is as simple as that. I know the FO and fans don't want that to happen, but it is very possible we do. Also, we are probably going to make a serious run after Luis Ayala. He is another pitcher like Aceves who could play a big role for this team in the pen. I could see us making a serious run after either Cespedes or Darvish. I don't think we will sit back and wait around after or during the winter meetings. There is a lot of work to be done.

 

Look for us to resign Papi really soon and then go from there. Just be patient. Everything will work out. Offensively we are not going to be much different than last year. Our offense was really good last year. Hopefully Kalish can have a good spring and get a lot of action in RF for us this year. Odds are Crawford turns things around, he can't do much worse. Even if he has a similar year as last year our offense was still good. I want to see something reliable out of Jenks as well. That would be a bonus though, because I don't think anybody is expecting much from him. If Youk can stay healthy, there is another decent player offensivley and defensively we can rely on. Also, Lavarnway will be an upgrade as the backup catcher in terms of offense, so that will be something big for us. The rotation and the bullpen will come together as we start to make moves and signings we have to be patient though. We have three good starters already in the system, now we just need two more, with two in-house options potentially there.

 

We get leadership out of Pedroia that is going to be extremely important. It wouldn't surprise me if he has an MVP type season. Offensively we are set. I am looking forward to this team. We relied on Lackey and Wake last year in the rotation, anyone is a step up from them and that improves our rotation. We downgrade at closer, but I can guarantee you we will have someone worth giving a shot.

 

Let's see how the winter meetings go and see what happens from there. A start could be resigning Papi, signing Madson, and signing Ayala. I would be happy if we got all three moves done. Then we only have to worry about signing one SP, two more bullpen arms, and a RH outfielder. With the outfielder, why not even look for a cheap utility outfielder that is RH. We could have Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish/Reddick and then the utility outfielder getting some time at all three when someone needs a day off or even can platoon in RF if we can use Reddick for trade value. There are so many questions to be answered. Also, give Weiland another year to develop in AAA and he might be decent for 2013. He knows what to expect at the major league level, now he just needs to develop more to fulfill his potential. I am expecting Doubront to develop more as well. Both have pretty decent ceilings. After Papi is gone, we have Lavarnway ready to go, when Middlebrooks fulfills his potential, he is ready to go at 3B. I hope Crawford, Kalish, and Ells can be our outfielders for the next few years.

 

There are a lot of people that are down on this team, stay optimistic. We have good players in our system. I'm excited about Blake Swihart as well and Xander Boegarts. Both could be in the majors within the next few years. In 2015, could you imagine Crawford in LF, Ells in CF, Kalish in RF, Middlebrooks at 3B, Boegarts at SS, Pedey at 2B, AGon at 1B, Swihart/Salty/Lavarnway at C, and Lavarnway/Youk at DH? Call me a wishful thinker, but the potential is there. Buchholz, Lester, Bard, Aceves are all hopefully going to be around. With others as well. We have talent, we have good prospects, we will continue to develop good prospects. This team will be competing for a while.

 

Whatever way the FO decides to go, I will fully support. They know way more about what this team needs than any fan does, that is why they get paid as much as they do. We can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic about that, it's your choice. I'm choosing to be optimistic, it is less stress for me in an already stressful world. As fans it is not our job to fret the things that we cannot control. Whether that be if this team decides to stay under the luxury tax or go over it. For one, if we sign Papi I would not be surprised if we go over it. I'm excited about this team next year. We will be a contender either way. A lot of people forget that two of our starters sucked last year and was a reason why we didn't compete as well as we could have. That will be fixed. The management decisions were even questioned. Papi even was wondering why the hell Aceves wasn't given the ball every fifth day. We have a new fresh, experienced manager to get this team back on track with new management decisions and a new managing style.

 

I support BC and Bobby V. They will be a great combo going forward. Let's go Sox! Let's get a World Series in 2012. f*** Papelbon and his greediness. We will survive without him. We will survive with Papi. At the end of the day, we are the same team as last year, with new management and new pitching let's go out, get this team in-shape, prevent injuries, and play some baseball!

 

I like your post. I agree in some passages and disagree in others. Yes, we need to be optimistic. I am.

 

I like this. Sounds great.

 

In 2015, could you imagine Crawford in LF, Ells in CF, Kalish in RF, Middlebrooks at 3B, Boegarts at SS, Pedey at 2B, AGon at 1B, Swihart/Salty/Lavarnway at C, and Lavarnway/Youk at DH?

[jung]

If I had to play devils advocate I would say Aceves was not given a starting role later last year because he had not been prepared as a starter during the spring. The Sox had so much invested in Lackey that they kept throwing him out there hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and the rest of the starting staff was not giving the Sox more than 5 or 6 innings a start. It would have been wishful thinking to depend on Aceves to do better under the circumstances. We did not need yet another 5 to 6 inning starter last year and moving Lackey to the BP in the latter part of the season would have been as foolhardy as moving Aceves into the rotation. As he aged Wake became less and less reliable in the relief roll as well and they were involved in that ridiculous effort to get him his damn record.

 

If they do drop Aceves into the 5 spot this year, they will do it hoping that the rest of the rotation can go more innings than they did last year. They can afford to have guys at the bottom of the rotation going 5 or 6 if the guys at the top of the rotation are going 6, 7 or 8.

[jung]

If I had to play devils advocate I would say Aceves was not given a starting role later last year because he had not been prepared as a starter during the spring. The Sox had so much invested in Lackey that they kept throwing him out there hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and the rest of the starting staff was not giving the Sox more than 5 or 6 innings a start. In fact they were lucky to get 4 innings out of starters in some cases. It would have been wishful thinking to depend on Aceves to do better under the circumstances. We did not need yet another 5 to 6 inning starter last year and moving Lackey to the BP in the latter part of the season would have been as foolhardy as moving Aceves into the rotation. As he aged Wake became less and less reliable in the relief roll as well and they were involved in that ridiculous effort to get him his damn record.

 

If they do drop Aceves into the 5 spot this year, they will do it hoping that the rest of the rotation can go more innings than they did last year. They can afford to have guys at the bottom of the rotation going 5 or 6 if the guys at the top of the rotation are going 6, 7 or 8.

[jacksonianmarch]

It wasn't an issue of replacing lackey, though, you still had holes to fill from Buchholz's and matsuzaka's absence.

[jung]

Yes I realize it was not an issue of replacing Lackey but the Sox would have had to move somebody around in order to drop Aceves into the rotation. They simply did not have enough arms to just move Aceves into the rotation without doing something to replace his relief innings.

 

Theo admitted after it was too late that he did not do enough to try to supplement what pitching we had going into the later part of the season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Right, but moving Aceves into the rotation would have saved you from starting Weiland and Miller so many times. All in all, it's about the number of quality innings and he'd have been able to contribute more of them from the rotation

[jung]

I actually don't know what they would have done with those two guys at that point...they seemed so beaten down and lacking in confidence. If they had to come in with runners on I think they night dug a hole right out in the middle infield and climbed in.

[Elktonnick]

I actually don't know what they would have done with those two guys at that point...they seemed so beaten down and lacking in confidence. If they had to come in with runners on I think they night dug a hole right out in the middle infield and climbed in.

 

Weiland may be salvagable if they can rebuild his confidence and work out other issues in 3A. Miller I am afraid is a failed reclamation project. Millers mechanics are a mess.

[Meh]

There are a lot of people stuck on Paps. He is out. The only thing is to get over it and realize he is gone. I will miss him, but we all knew he was asking too much. We can find another closer to replace. Yes, that closer might not be as good, but as long as we get someone who can finish out games for us. We are in talks with Madson and depending on what the FO wants to do, I won't mind if we go out and get him.

 

We are probably going to get Papi again and I know a lot of people are against resigning him, especially to 14 million, but it is what it is. It is going to be hard for us to stay under the luxury tax. We are meeting with Oswalt's and Wilson's agent (the same agent) over the winter meetings. I am excited about that. If we can ink either of those two, then that will be great for our rotation. Especially since we have either Bard or Aceves in the rotation. That gives us 5 starters and potentially 6 if we need depth. Whether Aceves or Bard makes the rotation, the other will be the set-up guy and still could potentially fill a starting role if we are plagued with injuries throughout the year.

 

If we sign either Wilson, Oswalt, or Darvish, then that is one solid starter that we need. Darvish will probably cost us a guaranteed 100 million when it is all said ad done, so I'm not sure if I would be all for acquiring him. We need one reliable starter regardless if we want to compete. Whether that is signing someone or by trading. Everyone is getting really anxious and the winter meetings haven't even started yet. Give it some time.

 

If we get Papi, Madson (or another reliable closer), one of the previous starting pitchers mentioned above (or another starting pitcher through free agency or trade), and then a RH right fielder, then this team will be able to compete. Hypothetically speaking, say we resign Papi, sign Madson, sign Oswalt, and a RH outfielder, we are going to be over the luxury tax, and it is as simple as that. I know the FO and fans don't want that to happen, but it is very possible we do. Also, we are probably going to make a serious run after Luis Ayala. He is another pitcher like Aceves who could play a big role for this team in the pen. I could see us making a serious run after either Cespedes or Darvish. I don't think we will sit back and wait around after or during the winter meetings. There is a lot of work to be done.

 

Look for us to resign Papi really soon and then go from there. Just be patient. Everything will work out. Offensively we are not going to be much different than last year. Our offense was really good last year. Hopefully Kalish can have a good spring and get a lot of action in RF for us this year. Odds are Crawford turns things around, he can't do much worse. Even if he has a similar year as last year our offense was still good. I want to see something reliable out of Jenks as well. That would be a bonus though, because I don't think anybody is expecting much from him. If Youk can stay healthy, there is another decent player offensivley and defensively we can rely on. Also, Lavarnway will be an upgrade as the backup catcher in terms of offense, so that will be something big for us. The rotation and the bullpen will come together as we start to make moves and signings we have to be patient though. We have three good starters already in the system, now we just need two more, with two in-house options potentially there.

 

We get leadership out of Pedroia that is going to be extremely important. It wouldn't surprise me if he has an MVP type season. Offensively we are set. I am looking forward to this team. We relied on Lackey and Wake last year in the rotation, anyone is a step up from them and that improves our rotation. We downgrade at closer, but I can guarantee you we will have someone worth giving a shot.

 

Let's see how the winter meetings go and see what happens from there. A start could be resigning Papi, signing Madson, and signing Ayala. I would be happy if we got all three moves done. Then we only have to worry about signing one SP, two more bullpen arms, and a RH outfielder. With the outfielder, why not even look for a cheap utility outfielder that is RH. We could have Crawford, Ellsbury, and Kalish/Reddick and then the utility outfielder getting some time at all three when someone needs a day off or even can platoon in RF if we can use Reddick for trade value. There are so many questions to be answered. Also, give Weiland another year to develop in AAA and he might be decent for 2013. He knows what to expect at the major league level, now he just needs to develop more to fulfill his potential. I am expecting Doubront to develop more as well. Both have pretty decent ceilings. After Papi is gone, we have Lavarnway ready to go, when Middlebrooks fulfills his potential, he is ready to go at 3B. I hope Crawford, Kalish, and Ells can be our outfielders for the next few years.

 

There are a lot of people that are down on this team, stay optimistic. We have good players in our system. I'm excited about Blake Swihart as well and Xander Boegarts. Both could be in the majors within the next few years. In 2015, could you imagine Crawford in LF, Ells in CF, Kalish in RF, Middlebrooks at 3B, Boegarts at SS, Pedey at 2B, AGon at 1B, Swihart/Salty/Lavarnway at C, and Lavarnway/Youk at DH? Call me a wishful thinker, but the potential is there. Buchholz, Lester, Bard, Aceves are all hopefully going to be around. With others as well. We have talent, we have good prospects, we will continue to develop good prospects. This team will be competing for a while.

 

Whatever way the FO decides to go, I will fully support. They know way more about what this team needs than any fan does, that is why they get paid as much as they do. We can choose to be optimistic or pessimistic about that, it's your choice. I'm choosing to be optimistic, it is less stress for me in an already stressful world. As fans it is not our job to fret the things that we cannot control. Whether that be if this team decides to stay under the luxury tax or go over it. For one, if we sign Papi I would not be surprised if we go over it. I'm excited about this team next year. We will be a contender either way. A lot of people forget that two of our starters sucked last year and was a reason why we didn't compete as well as we could have. That will be fixed. The management decisions were even questioned. Papi even was wondering why the hell Aceves wasn't given the ball every fifth day. We have a new fresh, experienced manager to get this team back on track with new management decisions and a new managing style.

 

I support BC and Bobby V. They will be a great combo going forward. Let's go Sox! Let's get a World Series in 2012. f*** Papelbon and his greediness. We will survive without him. We will survive with Papi. At the end of the day, we are the same team as last year, with new management and new pitching let's go out, get this team in-shape, prevent injuries, and play some baseball!

 

Great post, one of the better ones I've seen here but theres a flaw. Your payroll would be well very high if you did that. 149 + 11 for madson is 160, + 14 for papi is 174 + 3 for Ayala which well would be wasted money sets you at 177. Not to mention you want a RF as well. Then you also want a SP like Oswalt, Darvish or Wilson which will cost you 8 for Darvish, 10 for Oswalt or 20 for Wilson. I can't see all that happening. Your team is good. You don't need 25 all stars man. Bring back Ortiz and trade for Street. Sign some guys like Marquis, Livan Hernandez, Brandon Webb and Armando Galarraga for 750K each with invites to ST. Sort them out there like the Yankees did last year. I bet you'll be able to find an arm that will give you 160 IP and a 4.50, 5-ish ERA there. Which is what you need right now for that 5th spot.

[example1]

Obviously that's just my perspective, and it's why i mentioned the fact that he could be a great sign, but i just don't have enough information to form a real opinion on the matter. If they think he'll be worth the investment, they should go for it.

 

Also, easy no on Wilson from my part, mostly because of the fact that he's had injury problems before and has only been a successful starter for two years. Same as with Darvish, if after due diligence they think he's a viable option, then go for it.

 

However, Cherington said they would re-examine the way they deal with free agents. This off-season will be a good barometer of whether or not they learned from past mistakes.

 

I don't know how teams avoid bad FA signings, other than being really conservative. That at least mitigates opportunity for loss. That's what Theo espoused for a couple years. People in the media complained that they were unexciting and should spend their money. It's a tough call.

 

I can't think of a team that hasn't had some failures in FA. Even the beloved Phillies will be regretting their contract for Ryan Howard.

 

I guess due diligence is the most anyone can ask of the sox. If that leads to a strong push for Darvish or Cespedes then so be it.

[example1]

I read that boston was interested in Zumaya for the pen. He shouldn't cost much on a one year deal because he's so injury prone. If he manages to stay healthy then bes a very good setup option.

 

I don't see much to lose there other than a million or so of someone else's money.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, how can a couple of games from Bard you've watched compare to the opinion of scouts, his former manager and the upper management of the Red Sox? I'm not saying i necessarily disagree, but i don't think watching a pitcher a couple times can tell you whether or not he's a viable closer. Telling those who think he may be suited for the role (and who may have watched him more than you) to "get a brain scan" is highly presumptuous and insulting.

 

Also, there are a number of arms available and a number of directions the Sox can go. Let's wait until that direction has been taken so we can actually answer the questions you're making.

 

User--I could use the old bromide of do I believe what his former manager and the FO says or do I believe what my own eyes have seen. Actually my take on Bard was simply my own opinion from those nine games that were entrusted to him with either a tie or us in the lead which he proceeded to blow. Now one thing I heard from Orsillo and Remy was that he seemed to lose some steam off his fastball whenever he started walking people, and when he did that usually a big hit or two and bad news for us came about. He was, after all, 2-9 as a set-up man. That kind of performance as a closer would be a death sentence for the team. I do believe that there is more pressure being a closer than an 8th inning man and if he had trouble doing the latter job it gives me pause to think he might fall far short in the 9th inning role as well. Again, though, just my opinion.

 

Besides User, it's out of our hands and all we can do is speculate anyway. You said yourself that you don't necessarily disagree with what I said and added that there are a number of directions we could go. We'll see what BV and Co. decide on that score, but to tell you the truth I don't like the idea of Bard facing down Teixeira in the ninth inning with the Red Sox leading 6-5 with two outs and two men on base---neither at Fenway or at YS.

[example1]

Your numbers about Bard sure don't paint a pretty picture. Of course, they are somewhat misleading. Bard was, by all measures, one of the leagues best RP last year.

 

As for facing Teixeira and being uncomfortable, I was uncomfortable with papelbon facing him too. That's not going away regardless of who they sign. That's what happens with good hitters and is how opposing closets feel about some sox players.