2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[jung]

I saw him everyday for 3 years. He's another Jenks.

 

Wow another Jenks....If you wanted to shock us silly that should definitely do the trick!

[a700hitter]

Broxton is terrible. We don't want him.

[jung]

Thought he was pretty terrible but I suspect any reference made such as "Jenks-like" will forever have meaning for Sox fans. He seems to have established a new level of uselessness and he deserves to have his name be representative of a particular type of pitcher.

[Palodios]

Broxton is terrible. We don't want him.

 

This.

[SCM33]

I saw him everyday for 3 years. He's another Jenks.

 

I wont argue then.

 

I know he wasnt great....looks like we kicked the tires and didnt like what we saw. I am ok with that.

[mvp 78]

I wont argue then.

 

I know he wasnt great....looks like we kicked the tires and didnt like what we saw. I am ok with that.

 

I'm all for adding 3-4 more RPs. Broxton just isn't the right fit. It all depends on where Aceves and Bard are slotted though. Personally, I'd rather them in the 9th and 8th respectively.

[User Name]

I'm all for adding 3-4 more RPs. Broxton just isn't the right fit. It all depends on where Aceves and Bard are slotted though. Personally' date=' I'd rather them in the 9th and 8th respectively.[/quote']

 

I think they should sign a set-up man and move Aceves to the rotation.

 

If the White Sox really wanna move Thornton, the Red Sox need to be all over that.

[mvp 78]

I just worry he'll struggle the 2nd time through the order.

[User Name]

That's a fair concern. Which two starters do you think the Sox could fit into their budget in order to keep both Bard/Aceves in the BP?

[mvp 78]

F the budget. Sox are a big market team with premium ticket prices and their own network. Break the bank. Spend spend spend.

 

I want Buehrle.

[User Name]

If there's a year where they should break the piggy and screw their luxury tax restrictions this is it. But what if it handicaps them regarding future acquisitions?

[seabeachfred]

Since we lost Papelbon I would've thought we would go after either Broxton or Bell' date=' Broxton is gone to the Royals! I swear, if we keep waiting around we aren't gonna have a closer.[/quote']

 

Believe me Jopete, we lost nothing in not getting Broxton. He became a first class choker out here the past couple of seasons. He was never the same after blowing a g ame to the Yankees in June of 2010. I happened to watch that game in my San Francisco motel after watching the Red Sox beat the Giants that afternoon at AT&T Park that afternoon.

[User Name]

Was that the game where Torre let him throw like a thousand pitches?

[jung]

The way the new CBA is structured, it would be foolish for the Sox to come in just a little over the 2012 LT cap. Now that it looks like the Sox (for better or worse) are going to sink big money into Ortiz for one year anyway, it just about forces them to hook up with one of the few serious FA SP available this year. I would say given the Ortiz situation, they should make a serious run at CJ.

 

Everybody has been saying that Buehrle is not going anywhere so I have not been thinking much about him. Take a run at CJ and get one of the guys people have been discussing for the other end of the rotation. Make sure we have more relief help and live with Kalish in right. The point is that given the new 1st year LT rate and the fact that the FO seems committed to sinking $14M into Ortiz at least for one year, the 2012 budget is not in my view as restrained as I thought it would be.

 

At $14M I still think sinking that money into Ortiz is not exactly the right move. If the Sox are now willing to sink $14M into a bat, doesn't that open up the possibilities for a really good RH bat instead of these half broken down guys we keep tossing about?...maybe even one that can play in the field? That would bring back the idea of rotating guys into the DH spot and giving Youk and AGons the additional rest from playing in the field. That is what I would like the Sox to do but based on the arb move I have to think that the Sox really want to commit the money to Ortiz.

 

I still think that the Sox will may be forced to make a decision about Aceves but I think Bard will be slotted for the closer. I don't even think Bard turns into much of an argument any longer. In my view they will make him the closer.

[jung]

I did not see your post until I posted User but I can see my way to the Sox busting the LT cap for 2013 as well especially given the number of good FA available there. 2014 and 2015 are the years where the cap goes up and the Sox really need to get under it. However those are also years where if they plan properly, they should be able to get back under the cap and get there cap rate either back to 0 or to 17.5% if the need arises to bust the cap again.

[User Name]

 

Everybody has been saying that Buehrle is not going anywhere so I have not been thinking much about him.

 

I was on this train before but the current sentiment seems to be that Buehrle is not going back to the White Sox.

[SoxSport]

I think now they have a manager the GM will get to work on the closer. Gammons said today they are inclined to make Bard a starter. That means they will go after a closer--somebody like Bell, Bailey, etc. I think they didn't view Broxton as a closer.Neither does KC. He will setup there.

[jung]

Well that is good news on Buehrle. We don't have to put all of our eggs in CJ's basket.

[seabeachfred]

Was that the game where Torre let him throw like a thousand pitches?

 

Bingo User!!!!!! That was the game. Torre told his players, it was later learned, to make the guy work, run up his pitch count. It was the Sunday Night Baseball Game on June 27 I believe and the Yankees kept fouling off pitches and by the end of the ninth inning Broxton was spent. He wasn't worth s*** ever again. Strange since I despise the Dodgers and hate the Yankees, I wanted both teams to go to hell that night but it was enjoyable watching both teams sweat it out for what turned out to be an extra inning Yankee win.

[iortiz]

The way the new CBA is structured, it would be foolish for the Sox to come in just a little over the 2012 LT cap. Now that it looks like the Sox (for better or worse) are going to sink big money into Ortiz for one year anyway, it just about forces them to hook up with one of the few serious FA SP available this year. I would say given the Ortiz situation, they should make a serious run at CJ.

 

Everybody has been saying that Buehrle is not going anywhere so I have not been thinking much about him. Take a run at CJ and get one of the guys people have been discussing for the other end of the rotation. Make sure we have more relief help and live with Kalish in right. The point is that given the new 1st year LT rate and the fact that the FO seems committed to sinking $14M into Ortiz at least for one year, the 2012 budget is not in my view as restrained as I thought it would be.

 

At $14M I still think sinking that money into Ortiz is not exactly the right move. If the Sox are now willing to sink $14M into a bat, doesn't that open up the possibilities for a really good RH bat instead of these half broken down guys we keep tossing about?...maybe even one that can play in the field? That would bring back the idea of rotating guys into the DH spot and giving Youk and AGons the additional rest from playing in the field. That is what I would like the Sox to do but based on the arb move I have to think that the Sox really want to commit the money to Ortiz.

 

I still think that the Sox will may be forced to make a decision about Aceves but I think Bard will be slotted for the closer. I don't even think Bard turns into much of an argument any longer. In my view they will make him the closer.

 

I would like a bat who can field as well and I like CJ too.

 

If your thesis is right, How much money would we have available after signing CJ and Ortiz?

[jung]

Not sure how happy I am about Bard as a starter. There are a number of closers out there in this year's FA market though so maybe it makes sense. Even if they move Bard to the rotation though they can't consider him higher than a 4, maybe a 5. They might be better served getting a 4 or a 5 and keeping him in the pen. He is a long way from being a lock as a starter.

 

That said everything is a gamble. IF the Sox did get their paws on Buehrle or CJ I guess gambling on Bard as a starter makes sense. Who knows, we may have another CJ already signed in the form of Bard and we won't know unless we take the risk.

[User Name]

Bingo User!!!!!! That was the game. Torre told his players' date=' it was later learned, to make the guy work, run up his pitch count. It was the Sunday Night Baseball Game on June 27 I believe and the Yankees kept fouling off pitches and by the end of the ninth inning Broxton was spent. He wasn't worth s*** ever again. Strange since I despise the Dodgers and hate the Yankees, I wanted both teams to go to hell that night but it was enjoyable watching both teams sweat it out for what turned out to be an extra inning Yankee win.[/quote']

 

You mean Girardi. Torre was managing the Dodgers.

[jung]

Now that you guys mention it I remember that game where Broxton just got used up. That was torture to watch. I did not follow the guy after that night but it is really interesting that he never came back from that game the same again.

[User Name]

Not sure how happy I am about Bard as a starter. There are a number of closers out there in this year's FA market though so maybe it makes sense. Even if they move Bard to the rotation though they can't consider him higher than a 4, maybe a 5. They might be better served getting a 4 or a 5 and keeping him in the pen. He is a long way from being a lock as a starter.

 

That said everything is a gamble. IF the Sox did get their paws on Buehrle or CJ I guess gambling on Bard as a starter makes sense. Who knows, we may have another CJ already signed in the form of Bard and we won't know unless we take the risk.

 

Wilson supposedly wants a $100 Million dollar contract. If the Sox balk at that price, i would agree with them.

 

Wilson asked the Angels for $100MM, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com

[seabeachfred]

I saw him everyday for 3 years. He's another Jenks.

 

Whoa MVP 78!!!!! Do you live in the Los Angeles area too? Where exactly? If you're not too far away I will invite you over and show you my Red Sox baseball room. Guaranteed to knock you senseless.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[seabeachfred]

You mean Girardi. Torre was managing the Dodgers.

 

Damn it User, another senior moment by your friend here. Correctamundo!!!!! Girardi told his players to wear out Broxton. Just wait......you will get these moments when you get to be near my age.

[jung]

Yea $100M for him says bring on Buehrle. He will not command a number like that. Not to say there are no starters that can get $100M but CJ just has not proven it to me as yet. I am willing to bet he will get it from somebody though.

 

Geez I lost track of everything over the holiday. I gotta' get back into some web sites and catch up.

[jung]

If you thesis is right, How much money would we have available after signing CJ and Ortiz?

 

Once you take concern for the 2012 LT cap out of the equation, presuming your bottom line will support it, the real concern in my view becomes planning the expenditures so that you are back under the limit again no later than 2014. So I would have to make some guesses about the AAV commitments for 2014 against the limit to come up with a number. The numbers coming off the books are as important as the numbers coming on.

 

Not sure I could do a very good job at that because I would have to make a large number of assumptions but I will create a spread sheet when I get a chance and toss some numbers around. I would bet they could get relief help if that is what you are concerned with and a closer assuming Bard goes to the rotation. There are closers in this year's FA market.

 

As long as they can get either Buehrle or CJ I am OK with the inherent risk involved in trying Bard in the rotation. How sweet would it be if Bard actually turned out to be a CJ that we already owned!

[mvp 78]

Whoa MVP 78!!!!! Do you live in the Los Angeles area too? Where exactly? If you're not too far away I will invite you over and show you my Red Sox baseball room. Guaranteed to knock you senseless.:thumbsup::thumbsup::::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Lived in El Segundo. Moved back to MA in June 2010. I miss the weather, The Counter, Wendys Place, and the West Coast breweries. I don't miss the smog, the traffic, and getting tar on my feet everytime I went to the beach.

 

Glad to be back home.

[iortiz]

Once you take concern for the 2012 LT cap out of the equation' date=' presuming your bottom line will support it, [b']the real concern in my view becomes planning the expenditures so that you are back under the limit again no later than 2014. So I would have to make some guesses about the AAV commitments for 2014 against the limit to come up with a number. The numbers coming off the books are as important as the numbers coming on.[/b]

 

Not sure I could do a very good job at that because I would have to make a large number of assumptions but I will create a spread sheet when I get a chance and toss some numbers around. I would bet they could get relief help if that is what you are concerned with and a closer assuming Bard goes to the rotation. There are closers in this year's FA market.

 

As long as they can get either Buehrle or CJ I am OK with the inherent risk involved in trying Bard in the rotation. How sweet would it be if Bard actually turned out to be a CJ that we already owned!

 

Good point jung.

 

My real 2012 concern jung is: Are we going to bust the LT? and/or Has JH already told LL what is our 2012 Budget to play with?

 

If they sign Ortiz +- 12 M (2012) I guess they will go over the cap.

 

Otherwise I would use the entire budget in arms (SP, BP arms and depth). All of it -- given the circumstances--. I'd shuffle Kalish/Reddick in the OF and give Lavarnway/Youk the DH.