2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Dojji]

If we go after a bigtime FA, it's far less likely to be Fielder or Pujols, and more likely to be Jose Reyes, just looking at team needs.

 

I think we need more character guys though. Fielder, Puhols and Reyes are all center-of-attention types, and we already have too many of those.

[Meh]

Is there any scenario whereby the Sox are players for either Prince Fielder or Albert Pujols?

I keep spelling this out for you guys, you'll have close to 150 million under contract and you can't trade Dic-K, Lackey or Crawford... no one is going to take those. You'd have to trade actually useful parts away to add HUGE impact players, obviously you could trade Ellsbury or Lester away for prospects or low priced guys, but Fielder is going to get PAID(by the cubs) and Pujols is probably going to make 18 to 22 million a year off his name.

[d-money]

This team needs pitching.Everyone talks about how great the farm system is and yet we havent see pitching wise guys get better.This team needs more pitching.

[Meh]

This team needs pitching.Everyone talks about how great the farm system is and yet we havent see pitching wise guys get better.This team needs more pitching.

 

Who's talking about how great the farm system is? No one on here... or well I haven't seen that anyway

[example1]

CJ Wilson's numbers the past two years have been good, and is auditioning today against the Rays. Folks should take note and think about how much you would be willing to pay this guy.

 

I would put his ceiling at about what Dan Haren's ceiling was a few years ago. While that's very good, it isn't elite pitcher status.

[d-money]

I agree about Wilson but i am sure someone will overpay for his services.

[d-money]

Right now Wilson is not looking so good.

[example1]

Wilson actually reminds me of the young version of Andy Pettitte. I'm thinking he will consistnetly put up between a 3-6 WAR. That's not good enough for the (likely) high cost IMO.

[3rdManOut]

I wasnt sure where to ask this question but will Dice-K be a factor at all for next season? Does anyone know what the deal is with him? Honestly I almost forgot about him.

[vjcsmoke]

Wilson actually reminds me of the young version of Andy Pettitte. I'm thinking he will consistnetly put up between a 3-6 WAR. That's not good enough for the (likely) high cost IMO.

 

Yankees won quite a few championships with Pettite though, didn't they?

 

If I were the Red Sox, I'd add CJ Wilson and Reyes via free agency. Then trade for an above average RF. I don't expect DiceK to be back or contrinbuting in any capacity.

 

It would be nice to resign Pepelbon but not necessary. Bard can be our closer if Paps walks. Ortiz, I think we're gonna let him go, not because he doesn't have anything left, but because we're gonna need to move Youks over to DH. He can't stay healthy and on the field at 3B anymore.

 

Lineup with Reyes looks pretty awesome actually.

 

1. Reyes

2. Pedroia

3. Ellsbury

4. Gonzalez

5. Youkilis

6. Crawford

7-9 Whoever else.

[jacksonianmarch]

Reyes will make 21-23 mil per yr. Wilson will likely make 18-20 mil per yr. You wanna add 40 mil per season in contracts after your team has had problems with free agent pickups?

[Cairns_Sox]

Does anyone know if the Cards are going to exercise Wainwright's option for next season?I believe there was stipulation in his contract about being on the DL at the end of the season or something to do with TJ surgery they could release him.

[jacksonianmarch]

They could release him, but they wont. He's an ace, he'll be exactly a yr removed from surgery when ST starts and he will likely regain his ace status by midseason

[Cairns_Sox]

They could release him' date=' but they wont. He's an ace, he'll be exactly a yr removed from surgery when ST starts and he will likely regain his ace status by midseason[/quote']

 

Yeah I thought it might be to good to be true. If it did happen I'd go hard after him and let The Yanks get CJ Wilson.

[jacksonianmarch]

Is the reaction to this season to throw more money at the problem, though? That's the question, everyone wants to go out and get the shiny new toy, but the team was one of the best in the bigs before their depth and their leadership went awry. If I were the sox GM, I would improve the depth, get a back end pitcher capable of throwing innings and upgrade the bench.

[Spitball]

"If it wasn't Boston, I would want to play in Cincinnati just to say that I did it," Youkilis said. "I grew up rooting for them. I used to be bitter towards the Reds because they didn't draft me, but that bitterness is gone. It would be fun and it would be for my family."

 

This is Youkilis from an earlier story on the ESPN site. Would a trade for Scott Rolen and Edinson Volquez be a viable option? Volquez is a hard thrower who was a 17 game winner in 2008 but had Tommy John in 2009. He came back early and started for the Reds last year in game one of the National League playoffs against the Phillies. Rolen has been injured and might not agree to a trade. Maybe Juan Francisco would be a substitute if the Reds threw in a relief pitcher (Masset).

[NativeBostonian]

Reyes will make 21-23 mil per yr. Wilson will likely make 18-20 mil per yr. You wanna add 40 mil per season in contracts after your team has had problems with free agent pickups?

 

Personally, I think the Red Sox are going to stay away from big signing next off season with the way this one went.

[Dojji]

"If it wasn't Boston, I would want to play in Cincinnati just to say that I did it," Youkilis said. "I grew up rooting for them. I used to be bitter towards the Reds because they didn't draft me, but that bitterness is gone. It would be fun and it would be for my family."

 

This is Youkilis from an earlier story on the ESPN site. Would a trade for Scott Rolen and Edinson Volquez be a viable option? Volquez is a hard thrower who was a 17 game winner in 2008 but had Tommy John in 2009. He came back early and started for the Reds last year in game one of the National League playoffs against the Phillies. Rolen has been injured and might not agree to a trade. Maybe Juan Francisco would be a substitute if the Reds threw in a relief pitcher (Masset).

 

I don't think the Reds are likely to think of Youkilis as a third baseman at this point. If they do, it might happen. Don't forget they have Joey Votto.

[jung]

I agree with the comments that pitching is a real issue for the Sox and comments that Theo does need to be more conscience of the character of the players they are bringing in because this team has too many guys that are just not guys you can depend on.

 

One more indicator of lack of character was how much of a front running team this was this year. 2011 Red Sox record in games where the Sox were behind in the 7th inning.......2-61! 2-61!!!!! That is incredible.

 

Another piece of information that I had not really thought through because I guess I mis-read was conditioning generally throughout the league. I thought it had in fact improved over time.

However since baseball still offers its players guaranteed money I guess I read that one completely wrong. This came up as a consequence of a discussion about Red Sox Strength and Conditioning coaches and their culpability in the demise of the Sox, the second half crash, second half reductions in production from guys like AGons, injuries etc. It had been obvious I think to all of us that many of these guys actually put on weight during the season which I thought would be pretty difficult.

 

Unlike other sports where the Strength and Conditioning Team and Coaches have real responsibility to the team, standards that they are responsible for maintaining and the players often have clauses in their contracts that relate to strength and conditioning, regardless of how much money is now at stake none of that has changed in baseball. The Strength and Conditioning coaches are basically there to assist the players "if they want it" and do not have any authority or direct responsibility to or for anything. They are glorified towel holders.

 

Frankly I have to think that this is another case where the guaranteed money in baseball makes for a situation where there is little incentive for the player to adhere to a strict regimen.

 

I do know that baseball is almost in as much trouble financially as basketball is in. Here we have this little bandbox of a stadium that is easy to pack out and we have had generations of rabid baseball fans. However I think we are all aware that there are very few cities where major league baseball commands much attention. Boston, Chicago, New York, St. Louis, Philadelphia and that is about it. Teams everywhere else struggle to fill their parks. That said, the players union in baseball is very strong and a number of owners are wealthy guys that want a championship more than they want the money.

 

At any rate, unless you have young, hungry ball players that don't have their fat guaranteed contracts yet or guys that have their money but have so much heart that the money really does not change them, then your team is in a lotta' trouble, like our team is.

 

So without any ability to wield any control over these players, you have got to look at the player's character and make a judgement about what will happen to him once he signs this monster contract or stock your team with young hungry players. In the case of the Red Sox in part we see the result of having too many of these guys with monster contacts. The difference is exactly what we see in Tampa Bay, a city with a crummy stadium and crummy fans but with ownership committed to handling their financial house with some sanity, which for pro sports means handling their player personnel issues with some sanity.

 

There is a good deal of discussion at this point about whether ownership really wanted Tito out of here and just allowed Tito to say it was his decision or if in fact this was Tito's decision. I actually hope it was Tito's decision. At least that would indicate ownership was smart enough to put the blame where it belonged.

 

A few posts ago I had chimed in along with others about the issue of the Sox Strength and Conditioning coaches and in an effort to rib me a little a board member asked me to name the boss of the Strength and Conditioning coach obviously pointing at Tito. I jokingly responded that the boss was John Henry and while I was attempting to continue a humorous line, in reality Henry and his fellow owners are a big part of the problem.

 

So while I was trying to be humorous in the other thread, Mr Henry does bear much of the responsibility in the way that he has empowered Theo and in the way Theo has handled all of this money. After the FO, the players themselves bear the largest piece of responsibility and frankly Tito and his assistants are the least responsible for this mess.

[BSN07]

Some things that I'll throw out there for possible things to do this off season.

 

Shop Lackey- I know the market isn't going to be good, but a bad contract swap could work. I woukd be interested in a Soriano for Lackey trade. Sox need a RHH OF anyways.

 

Shop Ellsbury- I've been an Ellsbury supporter from the beginning. Early on I even tried to tell everyone this kid has pop and was capable of 25+ HR to enormous ridicule lol But I'm not sure he will be able to sustain these numbers and with what the Sox gave Crawford last winter and Ellsbury being a Boras client, I seee it very unlikely he is with the team long term. So try and cash in now. Ellsbury for a SP could be a possibility. I would mention trying to buld a package around Ellsbury for Felix. But I don't see the Mariners having much interest in a Boras client 2 years from Free Agency. But maybe a 3 team deal could match up.

 

Find a 3B and no not Ramirez. The guy is a statue at 3B at this point. We all remember what that was like and no thanks. I'm sure there is something out there. Big name would be Wright. But it looks like the Mets are better of financially then originally thought. Can Pujols play 3B still? lol I'm just kidding.

 

I think you can let Ortiz walk. Papelbon is a tough call. A 1 year deal on Broxton could be interesting. I know they tried the same thing with Jenks and it failed. But still when it comes to the BP these types of moves are ok.

 

Scutaro would be ok to be brought back for one year. Unless Iggy is ready. Lowries should be the teams utility player. He has proven time and time again he can't handle full time duty.

 

Other then that, the core of the team is solid. I have no idea on who they bring in as Manager. I am a Tito fan. But I am ok

[Cairns_Sox]

Is it too soon for Tek to go into managing?

 

Glad you weren't serious. The fact of the matter is Tek is "supposed" to be the "captain" and he obviously could not do much to prevent the clubhouse issues as the "captain". So I have huge doubts about him managing this group.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Maybe Pinella can come out of retirement? Perhaps all the Sox really need is some good old-fashioned mouth-foaming batshit insanity?

[BSN07]

I guess Pinella is an option. My guess is the go with a young up and coming guy that maybe we haven't heard so much about. I'm not sure they are going to bring in a big personalty type manager. I'm guessing Macha name is going to pop up in possible candidates that we have heard of.

 

Putting what happened during the season behind us. It should be an interesting off season in Boston.

[Interestedobserver]

IMO teams that try and dig out of a hole by signing more FAs are going to find themselves in a death spiral. Put the money into the draft and trade some of those guys for younger guys about to become more expensive. You want pitching, take a chance on either Hanson or JJ from the Braves. Both good arms, but injury risks. Odds are the Braves need to trade one since they're entering more expensive years. They'll cost prospects, but should be available. Cain from the Giants is a FA in a year. I'm not sure they would trade him, but they can't sign everybody and they need hitting. He wouldn't be cheap, though.

[33Innings]

I guess Pinella is an option. My guess is the go with a young up and coming guy that maybe we haven't heard so much about. I'm not sure they are going to bring in a big personalty type manager. I'm guessing Macha name is going to pop up in possible candidates that we have heard of.

 

Putting what happened during the season behind us. It should be an interesting off season in Boston.

 

A few ideas right off the top of my head:

 

1. Many analysts, particularly on ESPN are suggesting Bobby Valentine.

2. He hasn't been in any clubhouses or dugouts lately, but what about giving Kevin Kennedy a second term? He is the only skipper other than Tito to win Boston an AL East crown since the strike and has spent the last several years scrutinizing and analyzing the whole Major League scope.

3. Depending on how management feels about retaining current coaches, there is first base coach Ron Johnson, who previously managed the PawSox for a while.

[Dojji]

Maybe Pinella can come out of retirement? Perhaps all the Sox really need is some good old-fashioned mouth-foaming batshit insanity?

 

I have to admit, when I first heard Tito might be out, the guy I thought of was Pinella. Then I figured that I've been laughed at enough recently around here, so I didn't put it forward.

[a700hitter]

Some things that I'll throw out there for possible things to do this off season.

 

Shop Lackey- I know the market isn't going to be good, but a bad contract swap could work. I woukd be interested in a Soriano for Lackey trade. Sox need a RHH OF anyways.

 

Shop Ellsbury- I've been an Ellsbury supporter from the beginning. Early on I even tried to tell everyone this kid has pop and was capable of 25+ HR to enormous ridicule lol But I'm not sure he will be able to sustain these numbers and with what the Sox gave Crawford last winter and Ellsbury being a Boras client, I seee it very unlikely he is with the team long term. So try and cash in now. Ellsbury for a SP could be a possibility. I would mention trying to buld a package around Ellsbury for Felix. But I don't see the Mariners having much interest in a Boras client 2 years from Free Agency. But maybe a 3 team deal could match up.

 

Find a 3B and no not Ramirez. The guy is a statue at 3B at this point. We all remember what that was like and no thanks. I'm sure there is something out there. Big name would be Wright. But it looks like the Mets are better of financially then originally thought. Can Pujols play 3B still? lol I'm just kidding.

 

I think you can let Ortiz walk. Papelbon is a tough call. A 1 year deal on Broxton could be interesting. I know they tried the same thing with Jenks and it failed. But still when it comes to the BP these types of moves are ok.

 

Scutaro would be ok to be brought back for one year. Unless Iggy is ready. Lowries should be the teams utility player. He has proven time and time again he can't handle full time duty.

 

Other then that, the core of the team is solid. I have no idea on who they bring in as Manager. I am a Tito fan. But I am ok

• Where would Soriano play? He's a horrendous fielder.
  
• Why trade Ellsbury who is one of only three young stars on the team and he just had a breakout season. This team should be built around him and Pedroia.
  
• I wouldn't be so quick to let Ortiz walk unless you are going to bring in an elite bat. When Ortiz was out of the lineup, the team went into an offensive tailspin.
  
• Broxton? He has been horribly inconsistent and injured the last couple of seasons. That wouldn't be interesting. It would be frightening.
  
• The core of the team is not solid. Other than AGon and Pedroia, they have nothing to build around if you trade Ellsbury. The pitching is woefully thin at starter and in the pen. If the pitching is not addressed, the same thing will happen next season. Buchholz returning to the rotation will not be enough.
  

• Iggy will never be ready until he proves that he can hit.
  

 

BTW: Looking at your sig, tell me who you think will be coming out of the minors to make an impact in 2012? I'm not talking about a backup infielder or a middle bullpen piece, or a backup catcher. Who is the next Pedroia, Ellsbury, Youkilis, Lester, Buchholz or Papelbon?

[DwightFright]

I have to admit' date=' when I first heard Tito might be out, the guy I thought of was Pinella. Then I figured that I've been laughed at enough recently around here, so I didn't put it forward.[/quote']

 

While you are laughing, I've heard Dennis Ekersley's name thrown around. Hey, Bob Brenly was an announcer for the Dbacks in 2000 when he was hired to replace Showalter. He won the WS in his first year. There is something to be said for analysts/announcers who have followed every pitch and analyzed players/team with brutal honesty ( Honest Eck). Hey, Eck might bring in Kevin Millar as a coach...lol. The return of the Idiot mentality! Seriously, I think the success of a manager depends upon the credibility of the entire coaching staff with the players. Part of Tito's undoing was the ( arguably) questionable coaches he used: Bogar, Young, etc.

[a700hitter]

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2011/09/splat.html

 

My sentiments exactly.

[DwightFright]

Though Crawford had a lousy year in 2011, he was the player that the Angels lusted for last offseason. They took a lot of flak for losing him to the Sox. He might be a better fit with the Angels than the Sox. They are shaking things up in Anaheim as well. I wonder if a Crawford/ Angels trade might be possible. It seems to me that Crawford's presence in Boston will always be a hangover from the disasterous 2011 campaign. He more than Tito represents what was/is wrong with this team: no heart, no leadership, and no commitment to excellence @ a $142M pricetag. Getting rid of Crawford almost equates to a trade for Ellsbury.