The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Palodios]

Curt Young AND Dice-k in the same article, talking about changing training regiments? Yeah, I sort of soiled myself on that one.

[Spudboy]

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere, so:

 

This is from Boston.com by the way.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Insta-boner for Palodios.)

 

 

Good stuff.

 

I'm optimistic.

 

Although it's interesting that 100% does not include Dice-K's head.

[Spudboy]

Curt Young AND Dice-k in the same article' date=' talking about changing training regiments? Yeah, I sort of soiled myself on that one.[/quote']

 

:lol:

[Station 13]

This might be the final FA compensation draft year. If it is, we''re looking at quite a haul, with 4 picks within the first 50. So the new CBA might only give a sandwhich pick for type A and B eliminated. I find it LOL worthy Soriano is rank higher than Lee as a type A FA. And a bunch of type Bs that makes eyes roll.

[ORS]

O/T, but I don't see the change being keeping the supplemental pick and eliminating the loss of the 1st round pick, not for type A's. That would eliminate the penalty of acquiring the best FA, which would only incentivize the haves taking more and more....whereas now, most of the big market teams put some thought into the loss of their 1st round pick. I think the draft pick exchange still occurs, and the supplemental pick goes away. Again, this is for type A's.

 

For type B's, I think they keep the status quo to appease the MLBPA, so that these type of marginal players don't have the stigma of losing a pick hanging over their heads.

 

I think the era of teams getting better on the roster and in the draft at the same time goes away via the elimination of the type A supplemental pick.

[Will617]

O/T, but I don't see the change being keeping the supplemental pick and eliminating the loss of the 1st round pick, not for type A's. That would eliminate the penalty of acquiring the best FA, which would only incentivize the haves taking more and more....whereas now, most of the big market teams put some thought into the loss of their 1st round pick. I think the draft pick exchange still occurs, and the supplemental pick goes away. Again, this is for type A's.

 

For type B's, I think they keep the status quo to appease the MLBPA, so that these type of marginal players don't have the stigma of losing a pick hanging over their heads.

 

I think the era of teams getting better on the roster and in the draft at the same time goes away via the elimination of the type A supplemental pick.

 

I feel like the draft does the opposite. The very good players that are Type A will inevitably leave because the value of a 1st rounder isn't anywhere near the value of the player being acquired (I believe that a 1st rounder is generally worth around $5 million or so? $5 million wouldn't detract anyone from signing someone like Victor Martinez). Meanwhile, the more marginal players that just managed to get Type A status (like Grant Balfour) have to settle for lesser deals because, in their case the Type A status actually hurts them significantly.

I cannot think of a single instance where a player that really deserved his Type A status remained with their team because other bidders were scared off by losing a 1st round pick.

Furthermore, many of the teams that are benefiting from this system aren't really the ones that ought to be. The Red Sox certainly are not "have nots". The Rays deserve their picks more, but they are still a team that did extraordinarily well last season. Many of the bottom feeders have not benefited all that much.

Also, the system they use to determine who gets Type A and Type B is really stupid.

[Palodios]

I cannot think of a single instance where a player that really deserved his Type A status remained with their team because other bidders were scared off by losing a 1st round pick.

 

Didn't this happen to Varitek two or three years ago? Whether he deserved it or not is debatable, but he ended up losing money because he thought his intangibles were worth more, but all the teams were afraid of the Type A, and had no interest because they blatantly assumed he was going back to Boston.

[Station 13]

"The Red Sox have reached contract agreement with closer Jonathan Papelbon for $12 million and center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury for $2.4 million, avoiding arbitration with both players."

 

CSNNE.com

[EXman369]

Prince Fielder avoids arbitration signing a 1 year 15.5 million dollar deal with the brewers

[SoxFanForsyth]

Paying Pap 12mm makes me sick.

[Palodios]

15.5 for Fielder, 12 million for Papelbon.... hmm.

[SoxFanForsyth]

15.5 for Fielder' date=' 12 million for Papelbon.... hmm.[/quote']

 

It's a complete joke.

 

Oh well, next year, getting rid of Papelbon will be even sweeter, he'll eat up 2/3 of the $18mm difference in Gonzo's salary between 2011 and 2012.

[redsoxrules]

WTF ???? 12 MIL for papelbon? Jesus Christ

[Dipre]

Why's everyone acting surprised? The fact that Papelbon was going to get 12 million or more was clear as day, and has been discussed several times on the site.

 

Oh, and to the "sweet, Papelbon's going away" crowd, keep in mind that a good 2011 combined with next year's closer market may mean him staying on the Sox for a couple more years. Brace yourselves for that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

WTF ???? 12 MIL for papelbon? Jesus Christ

 

I think we all expected this, or at least around this number.

 

If it makes you feel any better, he got a 50% raise from 09-10, and only a 28% raise from 10-11, even though it was still close to 3mm both times.

 

Overpayment for sure, though.

[italstallianion]

There should have been a clause in there saying that if he sucks we get our money back.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Lol!

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why's everyone acting surprised? The fact that Papelbon was going to get 12 million or more was clear as day, and has been discussed several times on the site.

 

Oh, and to the "sweet, Papelbon's going away" crowd, keep in mind that a good 2011 combined with next year's closer market may mean him staying on the Sox for a couple more years. Brace yourselves for that.

 

I think the FO has made it blatantly clear that they are done with Papelbon when they offered Mo a 3 year deal and then gave Jenks a 2 year deal with closer incentives.

 

If the FO does anything, they will be more likely to transition Bard into the closer role in 2011 and 2012 with Pap around in 2011 and Jenks around in 2012 to assist with the transition.

[Dipre]

I think the FO has made it blatantly clear that they are done with Papelbon when they offered Mo a 3 year deal and then gave Jenks a 2 year deal with closer incentives.

 

If the FO does anything, they will be more likely to transition Bard into the closer role in 2011 and 2012 with Pap around in 2011 and Jenks around in 2012 to assist with the transition.

 

How, did they send a memo, 'cause i didn't get it?

 

Unless they literally say "we're done with Papelbon" there's no way to know if they will try to negotiate with him, specially if he goes out and has a monster 2011, which is more likely than not the basis of anything regarding Papelbon.

[SoxFanForsyth]

How, did they send a memo, 'cause i didn't get it?

 

Unless they literally say "we're done with Papelbon" there's no way to know if they will try to negotiate with him, specially if he goes out and has a monster 2011, which is more likely than not the basis of anything regarding Papelbon.

 

I don't know if they would CC you on any memo's regarding the future of players. I kind of doubt they would.

 

I'm pretty sure they have had internal discussions regarding Papelbon and his future with the Red Sox.

 

Unless they said "We're giving Papelbon $12mm in 2011", nobody knew for sure if he would get $12mm, but that's exactly what happened. He got $12mm. Why? Because it was obvious that was the number they would get to.

 

I'm not sure if you want a billboard outside of your bedroom window that says "Papelbon will become a FA in 2012", but offering closer incentive deals that outlasts Papelbon's contract, exploring trade options for Papelbon, and offering a 3 year deal to a rival closer is some pretty hard evidence that Papelbon's career with the Red Sox is done after 2011.

 

It seems like you are just being stubborn because you personally want him back, and aren't thinking rationally about the subject.

[Dipre]

Don't assign opinions to me that i haven't presented. I don't like or dislike Papelbon specifically, but i'm rather torn on him, because i don't know whether his performance problems are fixable, but if they are, i'm presenting a completely plausible scenario of him returning to the Red Sox under the right conditions, which is the exact opposite of what you're doing, since you're the one who doesn't want him back, and admittedly so, regardless of 2011 performance because you don't like him. So who's the one basing their opinions on the "like" or "dislike" game?

 

Stomp your feet and scream your dislike for Papelbon all you want. There's a chance, if minuscule, he comes back, and your dislike of him shouldn't blind you from the possibility.

 

Also, please don't fabricate and assign opinions for me based on things i have not said. Thank you.

[Dipre]

Don't assign opinions to me that i haven't presented. I don't like or dislike Papelbon specifically, but i'm rather torn on him, because i don't know whether his performance problems are fixable, but if they are, i'm presenting a completely plausible scenario of him returning to the Red Sox under the right conditions, which is the exact opposite of what you're doing, since you're the one who doesn't want him back, and admittedly so, regardless of 2011 performance because you don't like him. So who's the one basing their opinions on the "like" or "dislike" game?

 

Stomp your feet and scream your dislike for Papelbon all you want. There's a chance, if minuscule, he comes back, and your dislike of him shouldn't blind you from the possibility.

 

Also, please don't fabricate and assign opinions for me based on things i have not said. Thank you.

[Palodios]

Dipre, what some of us disagree with you about is why you keep assuming the Sox will need a closer in 2012. I'd trust Jenks/Bard before Papelbon. As I mentioned before, if Papelbon has a good season, he'll price himself out. If he has a bad season, he's not a closer anymore, atleast not here. I just don't see any scenario where he comes back, unless he does so poorly in 2011, its with a minor league contract.

[BSN07]

Why's everyone acting surprised? The fact that Papelbon was going to get 12 million or more was clear as day, and has been discussed several times on the site.

 

Oh, and to the "sweet, Papelbon's going away" crowd, keep in mind that a good 2011 combined with next year's closer market may mean him staying on the Sox for a couple more years. Brace yourselves for that.

 

I've been on the "get rid of Papelbon wagon" for awhile because he sometims can be infuriating to watch. But even I'm ok with them bringing him back on a reasonable deal. That is if he improves from last year. I think if he cuts down on his BB/9 and finds the location with something other then his FB, he will be good.

[Dipre]

Ok, then let me re-phrase:

 

First off, it's not a given that Bard will be the closer if Papelbon goes, it could be Jenks. Second, and i mentioned this before, it's very likely that if Papelbon does go they sign an elite reliever to keep the back end of the bullpen as strong as possible, which is why i make mention of the strength of the closer market for next offseason.

 

Now, my other point is that Papelbon returning to the Sox is not impossible. And that's a fair and valid point. I haven't pledged my undying allegiance to him, i'm just saying that if he does good in 2011 he could be back. Simple as that.

[Spudboy]

Lol.

 

The Sox are clearly done with Paps!

 

That's why they just handed him $12. mil.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Papelbon has shown a consistent decline over the past 3 years in BB/9, HR/9, and FIP. His LOB% was an incredible 89.3% in 2009, which is why his ERA somehow was at 1.85. His K/BB ratio has decreased each of the past 3 years.

 

No, its not just because I don't like him that we should get rid of him. It's because he has consistently gotten worse over the past 3 years, and one year of improvement does not rationalize giving someone a multi year deal, even if it is at a team discount.

 

My like or dislike for him has nothing to do with the fact that he has had subpar numbers the past 2 seasons with normalized BABIP numbers.

 

Like I said earlier in the Sox Predictions thread. He either A - Has a monster year, and then he would no longer be available at a reasonable price or contract, or B - has a sub par year like last year, and why would the Sox want to give him another chance after another year like his 2010 campaign??

 

I see no evidence that it is even plausible that he comes back. What am I not looking at, since I'm apparently stomping my feet and screaming?

 

My dislike for Papelbon has absolutely no weight in my opinion that Papelbon is gone after this year. The past 2 seasons, however, do. And the options coming out of next season do too.

 

What are the "right conditions" for him to come back? A 2008-esque season, followed by a 2 year/12mm contract?? That's not going to happen. Plain and simple.

[DirtDog]

I'm curious to see what kind of year Papelbon has. Last year was substandard, but I think some of you don't really appreciate how historic his run the first few years with the team was. You're not going to go out there and find any old closer who will be much better than that run. I think some of you got spoiled. The amount of saves Paps blew last year really taints his season as poor, even though it was quite respectable hovering around average. Instead of constantly bashing this guy, let's just see what he does this year. I think the decision of what to do will be pretty easy next off-season.

 

I'm not saying we should retain him after this year but I don't think you can go wrong having him on this team (money not an issue). Although the money will be the issue and he will be on the wrong side of 30 and pitchers of his type do tend to break down. It may not be worth it. He a Red Sox this year and I wish nothing but the best for him.

[diony]

12m? I would have non-tendered him and throw the money at Fuentes.

[BSN07]

12m? I would have non-tendered him and throw the money at Fuentes.

 

That's why your diony. Not a GM