The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Dojji]

Except that when you have a lineup like the one they have now' date=' you need to go with something that will work, defensively, and offensively. You don't overpay on projects. This is a guy who has hit .821 versus lefties over his career in a lineup that needs help versus lefties.[/quote']

 

Martin is no slouch against lefties. Career .761 OPS v. left. Even splits this year, which is wierd but the OBP is consistent against both kinds of pitchers, so there's that going for him..

 

And again, I don't think it's fair to say that Martin "doesn't work" offensively. OPS is not telling the whole story here. He's not v-mart, but he's not an incompetent hitter. Sure there's no power, but he gets on base at a .350 pace, which is actually very hard to find among the catchers of the league. Doesn't make outs, keeps innings alive, and he's moving to a doubles park that should help his gap power. For a guy who plays a defensive position, that's enough as long as the D is solid. And with his baserunning, he's a legit, if low-end, leadoff potential, or was before the injury. That should be born in mind by people who are wibbling about that sub-.400 SLG.

 

A lot of teams these days have starting catchers worse than Russel Martin. He's what he is, a pretty good catcher on both sides of the ball. No power whatsoever but still a guy who won't kill you and who provides a legitimate offensive skillset, just not one you're primed to expect from a catcher.

 

Put it this way -- catcher is somewhere near shortstop on the defensive spectrum. If Martin were a shortstop, we would look at these numbers and say "Hmm, not spectacular, but not bad." So it's apropros to apply the same standards to catchers. As spoiled as we have been for about a decade by Tek and V-Mart, Martin is an above average catcher when you take him as a whole.

[italstallianion]

I just hope that you're not Martin's agent Dojji. You probably just drove his price up a couple million.

[Palodios]

Martin is no slouch against lefties. Career .761 OPS v. left. Even splits this year, which is wierd but the OBP is consistent against both kinds of pitchers, so there's that going for him..

 

Put it this way -- catcher is somewhere near shortstop on the defensive spectrum. If Martin were a shortstop, we would look at these numbers and say "Hmm, not spectacular, but not bad."

 

Martin's career numbers are of no use to this discussion. He has hit poorly the last two seasons, and now on top of that, he's coming off of hip surgery. I understand that in the past, he's been an elite catcher, and I know exactly how valuable good SS/C are on a team. That being said, that isn't what he is anymore, and I don't see him going anywhere but down offensively-- he's a fast singles hitter that just had surgery on his labrum. Remember what happened to Mike Lowell? Now imagine Mike Lowell with no power.

[EXman369]

A lot of people have been saying that if the sox sign Martin they will not be able to sign the marquee bullpen arms, but whos to say they still wont. With the money they have spent this offseason i see them pushing their budget a little to win for the next 3+ years

[Palodios]

Reports say that now the Yankees are putting the pressure on Martin.

[Will617]

Reports say that now the Yankees are putting the pressure on Martin.

 

Really? Theo should just offer Lee 8 years/$80 mil to get the damn Yankees off our back then.

[italstallianion]

Really? Theo should just offer Lee 8 years/$80 mil to get the damn Yankees off our back then.

 

Only if John Henry funnels profits in from Liverpool to spend on the Red Sox. (I think all of our other English readers just fainted)

[BSN07]

Really? Theo should just offer Lee 8 years/$80 mil to get the damn Yankees off our back then.

NY is probably already been scared into 8/160

Only if John Henry funnels profits in from Liverpool to spend on the Red Sox. (I think all of our other English readers just fainted)

 

You better let them know you where being sarcastic. Or we may be reading about riots. I've read that the general fan base( a700's distant English relatives ) is unhappy to see them spending so much on the Red Sox.

[redsoxrules]

Tyler Kepner of the New York Times gets the sense from people involved that Lee feels a pull toward Texas (Twitter link). However, Kepner expects Lee to take the Yankees' seven-year, $161MM offer

 

 

I think that the Rangers are not even involved and there just driving up the price for the Yankee's

[Palodios]

I think that the Rangers are not even involved and there just driving up the price for the Yankee's

 

What benefit would that be to them? Its not like they have to face them 18 times a year. They really want Lee, and I bet they'd pay as much as 6/130 or 7/140, but much higher than that would do more harm than good for them.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Reports say that now the Yankees are putting the pressure on Martin.

 

Bastards<_>

[Dipre]

My view on it is that Lee's trying to factor the income tax (or lack thereof) argument that Texas has probably presented to him.

 

I think that if when taking said factor into account the Rangers offer is superior or at least similar to the Yankee one, he stays in Texas.

 

Of course, i don't know what Lee's thinking, nor do i claim to do so, but it seems likely.

[The Celtbot]

Peter Gammons and Ken Rosenthal are reporting the Anaheim Angels have agreed to terms with lefty reliever Scott Downs on a three-year deal worth $15 million.

 

The Red Sox were among the teams interested in Downs.

 

Theo Epstein predicted that once one set-up man made his decision, the rest would quickly follow. We'll see if that happens.

 

The Sox have offers out to several relievers.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/downs_agrees_to.html

[Palodios]

Ugh. Did the Angels really just spend 15 mill and a first round pick on a reliever? Maybe that means they're in on Beltre.

[italstallianion]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/downs_agrees_to.html

 

 

I'm just glad that something was happening, because I was getting bored. All of this "not signing" that was going on for the past 24 hours was killing me. It meant that I had to continually talk to you guys until someone else signed.

[BSN07]

Ugh. Did the Angels really just spend 15 mill and a first round pick on a reliever? Maybe that means they're in on Beltre.

 

Where does Soriano wind up now? If his market crashes the Sox should look into signing him and possibly trading Papelbon :dunno: Soriano has some injury concern, but if his market is down and he takes less AAV then Papelbon it might be worth it.

[yankees228]

My view on it is that Lee's trying to factor the income tax (or lack thereof) argument that Texas has probably presented to him.

 

I think that if when taking said factor into account the Rangers offer is superior or at least similar to the Yankee one, he stays in Texas.

 

Of course, i don't know what Lee's thinking, nor do i claim to do so, but it seems likely.

 

I don't see why this would take a substantial amount of time though. My guess is it's just a whole bunch of factors, such as the team, the city, the travel, etc.

[italstallianion]

From rotoworld:

 

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein expects to sign a reliever soon, perhaps within the next week.

Scott Downs, Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Brian Fuentes and Kevin Gregg are all options for the Red Sox. "The bullpen remains a priority," Epstein said. "That market has seemed like it was on the verge of really moving for the past two or three days... It hasn't quite yet, so we're still involved with a number of relievers through free agency and a couple through trade."

[BSN07]

From rotoworld:

 

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein expects to sign a reliever soon, perhaps within the next week.

Scott Downs, Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Brian Fuentes and Kevin Gregg are all options for the Red Sox. "The bullpen remains a priority," Epstein said. "That market has seemed like it was on the verge of really moving for the past two or three days... It hasn't quite yet, so we're still involved with a number of relievers through free agency and a couple through trade."

 

- Scott Downs, he just got his Halo.

[italstallianion]

It was obviously from before Downs signed.

 

I just hope that Theo gets 2 good relivers. Signing, trading, I don't care. We need 2 good relievers and we can call it an offseason. Maybe Martin too, but I don't really care about that.

[Dipre]

I don't see why this would take a substantial amount of time though. My guess is it's just a whole bunch of factors' date=' such as the team, the city, the travel, etc.[/quote']

 

He got the actual Rangers offer a couple days ago, not to mention we don't know if there are other teams involved.

 

Bottom line is, he has every right to take as much time as he wants before making his decision.

[BSN07]

It was obviously from before Downs signed.

 

I just hope that Theo gets 2 good relivers. Signing, trading, I don't care. We need 2 good relievers and we can call it an offseason. Maybe Martin too, but I don't really care about that.

 

I think he signs one and trades for one or two. Get on the horn to Florida about Nunez. he's getting more expensive by the day, the Marlins must be itching to trade him

[yankees228]

He got the actual Rangers offer a couple days ago, not to mention we don't know if there are other teams involved.

 

Bottom line is, he has every right to take as much time as he wants before making his decision.

 

Right, but I would imagine he has people who could figure out the affect of the income tax rather quickly.

 

But on the last point, I completely agree.

[Meh]

Where does Soriano wind up now? If his market crashes the Sox should look into signing him and possibly trading Papelbon :dunno: Soriano has some injury concern' date=' but if his market is down and he takes less AAV then Papelbon it might be worth it.[/quote']

 

Angels should still be in on him. Downs should not be a closer for a team haha

[GWSoxFan]

Angels should still be in on him. Downs should not be a closer for a team haha

 

Downs' contract has a 1MM incentive for games finished. That would lead me to believe that he expects to be closing.

[CoachC.]

Theo said at the Winter Meetings that the set-up man market was waiting for first domino to fall. Now that Downs is with LAA, who is next

[Palodios]

Benoit's deal messed with the market because he was quite a bit overpaid, relievers were waiting for better offers. And now that Downs got the same deal, it reset the reliever market, and they are more likely to sign reasonable offers.

[Dojji]

Martin's career numbers are of no use to this discussion. He has hit poorly the last two seasons' date=' and now on top of that, he's coming off of hip surgery. [/quote']

 

That's a cheap out. He hasn't hit that poorly. Look at where the numbers are, don't be shallow enough to focus exclusively on OPS when a guy with a career .350 OBP, which has NOT diminished as the power has declined, is staring you right in the face.

 

Remember what happened to Mike Lowell? Now imagine Mike Lowell with no power.

 

And if Lowell had been in his mid 20's when his hip has gone are you honestly going to stand here and tell me he'd have had anywhere near the complications that he had in his mid to late 30's? Furthermore, the surgery was only a secondary reason for what happened to Lowell. Loss of mobility in general cost him his career, and that was coming on hip or no hip. That's not a big problem for Martin, seeing as he can play positions other than catcher and first base with some effectiveness and can run the basepaths. That's even ignoring the fact that there's a huge difference in expectations offensively between a catcher and a freaking corner infielder.

 

Again you're relying on a very shallow analysis and a couple comparisons that don't stand up, and you're ignoring some very positive attributes in order to do it. Bad form, buddy.

[Will617]

Only if John Henry funnels profits in from Liverpool to spend on the Red Sox. (I think all of our other English readers just fainted)

 

I was referring to what Theo did earlier with the whole "mystery 7 year team" thing. Obviously, Lee would never take a $10 million AAV. But imagine Cashman once news comes out that there's a new "mystery team" "swooping in with a huge new 8-year offer" for Lee. I'd imagine it'd be something like, "GODDAMMIT, f*** YOU THEO"

[Will617]

From rotoworld:

 

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein expects to sign a reliever soon, perhaps within the next week.

Scott Downs, Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Brian Fuentes and Kevin Gregg are all options for the Red Sox. "The bullpen remains a priority," Epstein said. "That market has seemed like it was on the verge of really moving for the past two or three days... It hasn't quite yet, so we're still involved with a number of relievers through free agency and a couple through trade."

 

Still disappointed that Bobby Jenks isn't on that list.