The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[Dipre]

There have been more than 1 report that Lee was offered a 7 yr deal from the sox. The AAV was apparently below $20 million' date=' and it was likely an attempt to get their chief rival to bite on offering a 7 yr deal at big bank on a guy who shouldnt get more than a 5 yr deal.[/quote']

 

It even said so in some of the reports, but Divinity was too busy getting his Jersey Shore look on to actually read them so he came up with an entire scenario all by himself. Typical.

 

According to Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com, the Red Sox were one of the teams with a seven-year offer out to left-hander Cliff Lee.

The offer contained a low average annual salary, ensuring that Lee would not immediately accept. The Red Sox wanted to give ammunition to Lee's agent in his negotiations with the Yankees -- driving up the price on their longtime rivals. That offer is off the table now, either because it has been exposed or because Boston just shelled out a seven-year, $142 million contract to Carl Crawford. The Yanks and Rangers remain the most serious suitors.

 

It takes thirty seconds to read the reports before commenting.

[yeszir]

I don't get how making a lowball offer sticks it in any way to the Yankees. If it was an offer that Lee wasn't going to accept at all, how does that drive his price up? It's like making an offer below the starting price on an ebay auction.

[yankees228]

I don't get how making a lowball offer sticks it in any way to the Yankees. If it was an offer that Lee wasn't going to accept at all' date=' how does that drive his price up? It's like making an offer below the starting price on an ebay auction.[/quote']

 

Because with the knowledge of a seven year offer on the table, especially without knowing the value, the Yankees (or another team) might feel compelled to lengthen their offer, especially when it has been reported that the amount of years are important to Lee.

 

EDIT: Because it's only just being reported now that the AAV was low. At the time, it would have been reasonable to assume that the contract was seven years with a 20+ million dollar AAV.

[BSN07]

Because with the knowledge of a seven year offer on the table, especially without knowing the value, the Yankees (or another team) might feel compelled to lengthen their offer, especially when it has been reported that the amount of years are important to Lee.

 

EDIT: Because it's only just being reported now that the AAV was low. At the time, it would have been reasonable to assume that the contract was seven years with a 20+ million dollar AAV.

 

It had the exact effect they wanted. The Yankees have now upped their offer to 7 years. I have concerns about the back end of Crawfords deal. Not as much as a 35+ year old pitcher making 20M+ until he's 39

[Dipre]

Because with the knowledge of a seven year offer on the table, especially without knowing the value, the Yankees (or another team) might feel compelled to lengthen their offer, especially when it has been reported that the amount of years are important to Lee.

 

EDIT: Because it's only just being reported now that the AAV was low. At the time, it would have been reasonable to assume that the contract was seven years with a 20+ million dollar AAV.

 

It probably was, but apparently Lee is looking for more than 20 per according to reports, and notice how it says:

 

The offer contained a low average annual salary, ensuring that Lee would not immediately accept.

 

Meaning that it wasn't specifically a "lowball" offer, but an offer with a slightly lower AAV that he would be inclined to take only if someone else didn't go to the same length (seven years) with a higher AAV.

[SoxSport]

All those media outlets that assume the Yankees are the free agency team are pretty stunned right now. NY could well be shut out this year.

 

I think the Sox were not confident of the Angels keeping Crawford from NY, so they decided to take the initiative to guarantee it. I don't think that will happen with Lee, but it gives other teams more leverage to compete for Lee, including the Angels. The story is now the Red Sox were the mystery 7 year team for Lee.

This is a classic case of driving the price up for the competition.

 

The options for Lee are at such a level now that other factors will determine where Lee will go--whether he wants to stay close to home, or which team he can win with (the Yankees don't look as good now, with the Red Sox looking like a powerhouse).

 

Heyman is on MLB.com right now still spinning Lee to the Yankees. No surprise there.

[yeszir]

I thought it was pretty clear all along that he was going to get 7 years.

[Will617]

I thought it was pretty clear all along that he was going to get 7 years.

 

I didn't really think so. Early the Yankees had stated they refused to budge past 6. The Rangers even planned to put an opening bid at 4 years, before they realized there was no way they could get Lee for 4 years.

[bsox0407]

Globe:

The Red Sox lost RHP Cesar Cabral (Rays) and Daniel Turpen (Yankees) in the Rule 5 draft.

 

Turpen was obtained from the Giants in the Ramon Ramirez trade.

[bsox0407]

ESPN

 

ESPN's Jayson Stark tweeted the following interesting tidbit on outfielder Mike Cameron, who now projects to be Boston's fourth outfielder in 2010:

 

"Red Sox have already gotten several inquiries on Mike Cameron. Telling teams they plan to keep him but will listen."

 

[bsox0407]

How would you feel if we could pick up a pitcher for a Dice-k and Cameron deal and Have McDonald on the Bench or Kalish.

[bsox0407]

BTW 66 Days til Pitchers and Catchers report.

[BSN07]

I didn't really think so. Early the Yankees had stated they refused to budge past 6. The Rangers even planned to put an opening bid at 4 years' date=' before they realized there was no way they could get Lee for 4 years.[/quote']

Like the Yankees ever hold their ground with anyone lol

How would you feel if we could pick up a pitcher for a Dice-k and Cameron deal and Have McDonald on the Bench or Kalish.

 

Kalish needs to play. And he's no good to them on the bench as a LHH. They have plenty of those. Cameron is the perfect 4th OF. But I can't blame them for listening and seeing if someone has something they nee and are willing to give it up.

[CanadianSox]

BTW 66 Days til Pitchers and Catchers report.

 

This makes me happy lol

[italstallianion]

Any word of what Martin is looking for?

[BSN07]

Any word of what Martin is looking for?

 

I'm hoping it's like 2/8M or something like that. He was thought to be due like 4.2M in arb this year.

[Dojji]

4-5 mil will get you Martin no problem. .

[italstallianion]

The problem is that it probably eats into what we'd look for in relievers. I'd rather get a few really good relievers over Martin.

[Dojji]

Like the Yankees ever hold their ground with anyone lol

 

 

Kalish needs to play. And he's no good to them on the bench as a LHH. They have plenty of those. Cameron is the perfect 4th OF. But I can't blame them for listening and seeing if someone has something they nee and are willing to give it up.

 

If they clear Cameron, Nava becomes probably the ideal backup OF, especially if you can also bring back McD. Between the two that's a solid reserve outfield situation..

 

Between McD, Nava, and whichever of Lowrie or Scutaro isn't starting, we'd be pretty set -- especially if you remember that Jarrod Saltalamacchia has 1B experience.

[Dojji]

The problem is that it probably eats into what we'd look for in relievers. I'd rather get a few really good relievers over Martin.

 

I'd rather have a veteran catcher to pair with Salty.

 

Paps, Bard, Doubront and Atchison are already on the roster, and we're probably going to bring back Oki on a lesser deal. We only really need one setup arm, the other can be just about anything, especially of Prince Felix takes a step forward as a reliever next year. Don't be too surprised if Junichi Tazawa emerges from the grave as a guy the Sox have in mind to fill that last spot. Between Tazawa and Doubront, that'd give us some length in a coupleyoung pitchers with decent relief stuff. Perfect middle relief fodder with some long term upside. Add a Downs to that and you're golden.

[italstallianion]

I disagree. I think that we're going to be in trouble if we don't add at least 2 good middle relievers. I'm talking along the quality of Downs, Guerrier, Crain, Soriano, Fuentes etc. I'd love to sign 3 of them, but I think we should just sign 2 of them and call it an offseason. I'd take Downs and Guerrier if it was my call. I'm not that impressed with Martin and I don't think we need him, at all.

[italstallianion]

I'd rather have a veteran catcher to pair with Salty.

Paps, Bard, Doubront and Atchison are already on the roster, and we're probably going to bring back Oki on a lesser deal. We only really need one setup arm, the other can be just about anything, especially of Prince Felix takes a step forward as a reliever next year. Don't be too surprised if Junichi Tazawa emerges from the grave as a guy the Sox have in mind to fill that last spot. Between Tazawa and Doubront, that'd give us some length in a coupleyoung pitchers with decent relief stuff. Perfect middle relief fodder with some long term upside. Add a Downs to that and you're golden.

 

 

If we were that forward thinking, we wouldn't have signed Varitek and we would have put that 2 million towards Martin.

[Dojji]

If we were that forward thinking' date=' we wouldn't have signed Varitek and we would have put that 2 million towards Martin.[/quote']

 

Hindsight is pointless.

 

BTW -- "high quality, consistent, veteran middle reliever" is a contradiction in terms. Consistent veterans who pitch at a high level are called "closers." Or if you have a really good bullpen situation sometimes they're called "setup men." The ones that are still MR's are by definition inconsistent. You're going to have to cast the net a little wider than we might like out of necessity.

[italstallianion]

Hindsight is pointless.

 

BTW -- "high quality, consistent, veteran middle reliever" is a contradiction in terms. Consistent veterans who pitch at a high level are called "closers." Or if you have a really good bullpen situation sometimes they're called "setup men." The ones that are still MR's are by definition inconsistent. You're going to have to cast the net a little wider than we might like out of necessity.

 

 

Or "set up men" which I don't think we can have too much of. My point is that our bullpen is by far more important to fix than to add a "meh" RH bat like Russell Martin. Sure, I wouldn't mind signing Russell Martin and 2 good relievers, but if given a choice as to which one I wouldn't sign if the money was tight, I'd drop Russell Martin like a pass thrown to Braylon Edwards.

[redsoxrules]

The Yankees have presented Lee with an assortment of contract choices, writes Sherman. He believes the bids are something like five years for $125MM ($25MM per), six years for $144MM ($24MM per), and seven years for $161MM ($23MM per). I have a feeling this will reach its resolution with Lee signing the largest pitching contract ever.

[Palodios]

Olivo and his rocket of his arm signs for 2/7 with the Mariners... and the Sox are sticking with Salty. Still, its a good week in Boston.

[bsox0407]

Olivo and his rocket of his arm signs for 2/7 with the Mariners... and the Sox are sticking with Salty.

 

At this point We are still really hard after Martin

[Spudboy]

I disagree. I think that we're going to be in trouble if we don't add at least 2 good middle relievers. I'm talking along the quality of Downs' date=' Guerrier, Crain, Soriano, Fuentes etc. I'd love to sign 3 of them, but I think we should just sign 2 of them and call it an offseason. I'd take Downs and Guerrier if it was my call. I'm not that impressed with Martin and I don't think we need him, at all.[/quote']

 

Ditto!

 

I'd like to see two of the mid-relief guys that you mentioned. Fuentes seems like a good fit.

 

Downs, I'd like him too. But he may command too much in terms of AAV and duration.

 

And why does everyone have a hard-on for Martin? Where exactly would he fit in?

 

I understand that people are skeptical of Salty. But carrying three catchers is insane.

 

Keep in mind that Salty is out of options (I think), and that Veritek is not likely to accept a Minor league contract.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If Theo was able to pull off Jose Reyes + Russell Martin + reliever (Guerrier?), holy f***ing s***.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

And why does everyone have a hard-on for Martin? Where exactly would he fit in?

 

Good on-base hitter, and catcher's our weak spot at the moment.

 

Keep in mind that Salty is out of options (I think), and that Veritek is not likely to accept a Minor league contract.

 

...oh well.