The Official 2010 Hot Stove Thread.

[BSN07]

Good morning Talk Sox! And it *is* a good morning, huh? Anybody else exhausted a little from the drama yesterday?

 

So, a couple of questions....

 

With the winter meetings kicking off today, a huge trade in the bag, and some coin still left in the purse, what, if anything, can we expect to see this week in terms of signings?

 

Is it safe to say Crawford and (obviously) Lee are pipe dreams?

 

Will our focus now turn to stabilizing the pen?

 

Are there any bats left that you think Theo can (and will) pick up to help the 6-9 slots of the lineup?

 

I'm sure Lee will be off the table sooner than later, not that he really is on the table for the Sox, anyhow. And now that Boras/Werth completely reset the FA market, I'm thinking Crawford stays put this week with all that leverage he's amassing.

 

I am sure most of us think Theo is far from done. Wonder what he'll put on the stove this week, now that the main course has been served?

 

 

 

Maybe not this week, but for the ret of the off season I can see I think a trade for a LF. Willingham, Beltran and at the more pipe dream end of the spectrum Upton are possibilities. Maybe try and sign Magglio away from Detroit. Crawford and Lee are pipe dreams as it stands now IMO.

 

Look for BP arms. Scutaro was being discussed. Might have to wait for Hardy and or Bartlett to get moved before someone is really interested in Scutaro. Look at a couple of the Type B's or guys who weren't offered arb. No type A's please.

 

I would try and sneak Salty through waivers(pull him back if he gets claimed, which I believe they can do) and get him to AAA and try and bring in Martin. I think having all 3 would be much better then having only 2/3.

[BSN07]

Daily Reminder to FO:

 

Get Carl Crawford!

 

You don't lose two big bats and replace it with one. Give Crawford his money and then you don't have to worry about much for a couple of years. After you lock up AGon for 8 years, you'll have the core of AGon, Youk, Pedroia, Crawford, Lester, Lackey,and Beckett all tied up on multi year deals. Iglesias or Lowrie should be ready to step in at SS in 2012. Kalish should be ready for RF in 2012. Buccholz will remain under control for a couple of more years. For 2 or 3 years you'll only have to worry about building a bullpen and getting a serviceable catcher. The team should be a beast for 2-3 years with minimal work. Do the damn deal.

 

Crawford is no longer an option. They aren't giving him 8-10 years at 18M-20M per. I know you have been having fun with the daily reminder. But I think your going to have to retire that one. If they won't go 8/180M for Agon, they sure as hell aren't doing it for Crawford. Find another man crush

[Dipre]

Daily Reminder to FO:

 

Get Carl Crawford!

 

You don't lose two big bats and replace it with one. Give Crawford his money and then you don't have to worry about much for a couple of years. After you lock up AGon for 8 years, you'll have the core of AGon, Youk, Pedroia, Crawford, Lester, Lackey,and Beckett all tied up on multi year deals. Iglesias or Lowrie should be ready to step in at SS in 2012. Kalish should be ready for RF in 2012. Buccholz will remain under control for a couple of more years. For 2 or 3 years you'll only have to worry about building a bullpen and getting a serviceable catcher. The team should be a beast for 2-3 years with minimal work. Do the damn deal.

 

Are you high?

 

If so, put down the bong and think for three seconds about the colossal stupidity that giving Carl Crawford eight years and 180/190 millions dollars would be.

 

I've said it before, and i'll say it again: It's not about how visible your boner is for the player, but how he fits short and long term into the organization.

 

It's like you're a nine-year-old kicking and screaming for a video game console that's really really expensive but is almost outdated, and your parents warned you about it. It's still good, but once they stop making games for it, you'll start bitching and moaning for a newer one.

 

In fact:

 

Daily reminder to the FO:

 

Don't give Carl Crawford a stupid contract.

[a700hitter]

Crawford is no longer an option. They aren't giving him 8-10 years at 18M-20M per. I know you have been having fun with the daily reminder. But I think your going to have to retire that one. If they won't go 8/180M for Agon' date=' they sure as hell aren't doing it for Crawford. Find another man crush [/quote']Not an option? Why? We still need an OF bat. We lost two stud hitters and signed one. Why leave the job half done? If the Yankees sign Lee and Crawford, our signing of AGon for $160 million will not close the gap between the two teams that existed in 2010. In fact, we will have fallen further behind.

[mvp 78]

I'm a no go on two moves: getting RuMart and moving POS Scutaro. Living in LA for the past few years, I got to see plenty of RuMart's upside and downside. The big problem is that he's ok defensively, but has really lost something offensively (overuse, injuries). IMO he's not much of an upgrade over what the Sox have now. Scutaro put up the same numbers as Jeter last year. Do I want to see more Lowrie? Sure, but he'll fill in admirably at all IF positions. Inevitably, someone will get hurt. Lowrie is sure to get some decent playing time and his development won't be hindered.

[mvp 78]

Not an option? Why? We still need an OF bat. We lost two stud hitters and signed one. Why leave the job half done? If the Yankees sign Lee and Crawford' date=' our signing of AGon for $160 million will not close the gap between the two teams that existed in 2010. In fact, we will have fallen further behind.[/quote']

 

He won't be worth the albatross contract he's going to receive. That's why.

[Palodios]

Not an option? Why? We still need an OF bat. We lost two stud hitters and signed one. Why leave the job half done? If the Yankees sign Lee and Crawford' date=' our signing of AGon for $160 million will not close the gap between the two teams that existed in 2010. In fact, we will have fallen further behind.[/quote']

 

So we pick up a stop gap like Guerrero, Manny, or Ordonez, and save up for Ethier/Dejesus/Ludwick next year. Defense will take a hit but otherwise no big loss.

[a700hitter]

If Crawford is off the table, I hope they focus on trading for Beltran to play LF/CF. I really don't like the remainder of the FA OF pool.

[BSN07]

If Crawford is off the table' date=' I hope they focus on trading for Beltran to play LF/CF. I really don't like the remainder of the FA OF pool.[/quote']

 

Crawford was jettisoned from the table

[BSN07]

So we pick up a stop gap like Guerrero' date=' Manny, or Ordonez, and save up for Ethier/Dejesus/Ludwick next year. Defense will take a hit but otherwise no big loss.[/quote']

 

Ethier? I believe he is still under team control after next season. He's not listed as a possible FA on Cots 2012 list. But if he is, yes go short term and go get him next off season.

[SoxSport]

I think the attention should now shift to pitching. Mainly the bullpen, though that could change if they find a taker for Dice-K.

What I'm reading is the good relievers available want three years. The Red Sox always have a problem with years--they did with Werth and may have initially with AdGon until they saw Werth sign for 7 years.

 

If Epstein wants to get useful relievers, a Downes or a Fuentes, and certainly Soriano, he's going to have to go three years or he will be outbid. No question.

 

Now maybe he can pull off a trade, using Papelbon or Dice-K as bait. I would prefer Doubront, a lefty, as the 5th starter anyways. The plum might be Bell.

 

Certainly they need Fuentes or Downes to replace Oki. And they will have to go three years.

[BSN07]

Nunez or Tejada would be good trade targets for the BP.

[ORS]

I think the best short-term options, and at this point I'd rather go with a short-term than half a score of Carl Crawford, are Maggs or Manny. Get either one, fix the BP, and tell Dice-K and the two Texas twats (Beckett/Lackey) to show up in shape. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[Palodios]

Ethier? I believe he is still under team control after next season. He's not listed as a possible FA on Cots 2012 list. But if he is' date=' yes go short term and go get him next off season.[/quote']

 

Cots contracts shows him in a two year contract from 2010 to 2011.

[BSN07]

I think the best short-term options' date=' and at this point I'd rather go with a short-term than half a score of Carl Crawford, are Maggs or Manny. Get either one, fix the BP, and tell Dice-K and the two Texas twats (Beckett/Lackey) to show up in shape. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.[/quote']

 

You don't like Willingham for a year? I can't imagine he would cost much to trade for.

 

Manny will probably be dirt cheap. But he has said he's looking to DH. I'd be ok with Mags.

[BSN07]

Cots contracts shows him in a two year contract from 2010 to 2011.

 

Ya I saw that too. But for some reason I think he is still under control passed 2011. All the articles I have read have been saying how weak next years OF FA class will be. That doesn't make a lot of sense if Ethier is in there. After the big 3 1B, he would easily be the next best player on the market.

 

He cam up in 2006. So that puts his 6 years or so of MLB time after 2012 season. He likely signed an extension that bought out some of his arb year, but not all of them.

[a700hitter]

I think the best short-term options' date=' and at this point I'd rather go with a short-term than half a score of Carl Crawford, are Maggs or Manny. Get either one, fix the BP, and tell Dice-K and the two Texas twats (Beckett/Lackey) to show up in shape. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.[/quote']You don't like Beltran? He is probably in better health than Maggs and he doesn't have Manny's baggage. I see Manny coming back as a million to 1 shot. The odds are better that they sign Crawford.

 

BTW: I don't understand why the acquisition of AGpn makes Crawford or Lee a pipe dream. Between Lugo, Lowell, VMart and Beltre about $40 million came off the books. There is no extension for AGon yet and they are playing with the timing of the extension to avoid luxury tax. Let's assume that deal is $22 million per year. Don't they still have about $20 million left from the guys that came off the books? Why would we be out of the Crawford/Lee sweepstakes?

[CalvnHobs6]

Don't they still have about $20 million left from the guys that came off the books? Why would we be out of the Crawford/Lee sweepstakes?

 

My hope is that they'll take that money and use it on short-term bullpen help. I think that with the addition of Gonzo, and then full, hopefully healthy seasons from Youk, Pedroia, and Ellsbury brings the lineup to where it needs to be offensively.

[a700hitter]

So we pick up a stop gap like Guerrero' date=' Manny, or Ordonez, and save up for Ethier/Dejesus/Ludwick next year. Defense will take a hit but otherwise no big loss.[/quote']The odds of Manny coming back are longer than Crawford getting signed by the Sox IMO. Vlad can't play the OF anymore.

[BSN07]

You don't like Beltran? He is probably in better health than Maggs and he doesn't have Manny's baggage. I see Manny coming back as a million to 1 shot. The odds are better that they sign Crawford.

 

BTW: I don't understand why the acquisition of AGpn makes Crawford or Lee a pipe dream. Between Lugo, Lowell, VMart and Beltre about $40 million came off the books. There is no extension for AGon yet and they are playing with the timing of the extension to avoid luxury tax. Let's assume that deal is $22 million per year. Don't they still have about $20 million left from the guys that came off the books? Why would we be out of the Crawford/Lee sweepstakes?

 

It's not because of Agon. It's because Werth signed for 126M and now Crawford is looking for 8-10 years for 180-200M deal. That's nuts for a speedster that has played his whole career on turf. He doesn't want to lead off. He's not batting 3rd for the team. And that's way too much money for a 5th or 6th hitter. I don't care how flashy he is.

[a700hitter]

My hope is that they'll take that money and use it on short-term bullpen help. I think that with the addition of Gonzo' date=' and then full, hopefully healthy seasons from Youk, Pedroia, and Ellsbury brings the lineup to where it needs to be offensively.[/quote']$20 million is a lot to spend on new bullpen guys.

[CalvnHobs6]

$20 million is a lot to spend on new bullpen guys.

 

I don't know. For short term, teams have been overpaying for relief help. I think it's worth getting a few $3-4 million dollar guys.

[a700hitter]

Josh Willingham is not a bad option. He had a bit of a down season for him. Why would the National's look to move a value piece like him after making such a huge investment in Werth?

[a700hitter]

I don't know. For short term' date=' teams have been overpaying for relief help. I think it's worth getting a few $3-4 million dollar guys.[/quote']Even if you sign two good arms for $4 Million each, there is still about $12 million left.

[jacksonianmarch]

Josh Willingham is not a bad option. He had a bit of a down season for him. Why would the National's look to move a value piece like him after making such a huge investment in Werth?

 

Cause Willingham is in his last contract yr and the Nats have already given up negotiating with him

[CalvnHobs6]

Even if you sign two good arms for $4 Million each' date=' there is still about $12 million left.[/quote']

 

Very true. But I don't think that leaves Carl Crawford money if they're trying to stay under the cap, and clearly their pen needs to be addressed more than their outfield. I'm very comfortable with Ellsbury, Drew, and Kalish in the outfield with Cameron as a 4th. Adrian Gonzalez will replace so much more offense than we're giving him credit for. I see him as a 40+ HR guy at Fenway, and the new protection he'll provide to the guys in front of him has to be considered.

 

Think about how depleted their pen is. Are you comfortable with Wakefield and Doubront picking up the slack?

[PineRider]

... and now Crawford is looking for 8-10 years for 180-200M deal.

 

I understand the logic of thinking that Crawford wants this kind of money, but everyone and their mother knows that the Werth deal was bat crazy, GM's and FO's included, just read the the responses on news sites by all the peeps across the industry that view this deal as a bit ridiculous. I'm not entirely convinced Crawford will all of the sudden get that kind of coin just because of the Werth deal. Sure, it might happen, but I'll believe it when I see it.

 

The chance to land Crawford may be slowly slipping, but I doubt the Sox have simply given up on him because of the Werth deal. A lineup with Crawford in it, no matter if he's slotted at #6 or #3, will be SICK, period. That fact has not all of the sudden escaped Theo.

 

a700 said it best: you can't replace two solid offensive players with one. Theo knows this, the money is available, I'm not throwing in the towel on Crawford just yet.

[ORS]

You don't like Beltran? He is probably in better health than Maggs and he doesn't have Manny's baggage. I see Manny coming back as a million to 1 shot. The odds are better that they sign Crawford.

 

BTW: I don't understand why the acquisition of AGpn makes Crawford or Lee a pipe dream. Between Lugo, Lowell, VMart and Beltre about $40 million came off the books. There is no extension for AGon yet and they are playing with the timing of the extension to avoid luxury tax. Let's assume that deal is $22 million per year. Don't they still have about $20 million left from the guys that came off the books? Why would we be out of the Crawford/Lee sweepstakes?

I'm not saying they couldn't afford it now, but Crawford for 10 years, his likely asking duration subsequent to the Werth deal, does not interest me at all. He's like Kenny Lofton, and I have no interest in the team paying him over $20M per into his late 30's. That screams late contract albatross.

 

I thought a reasonable contract length for Werth was about 5 years, and given relative age, 7 years for Crawford.

 

I'd also be OK with the Hammer, but he'd cost some talent, and I don't see why the Natinals would be willing to give him up. Manny or Maggs just cost money and can be had for a short-term.

[ORS]

Very true. But I don't think that leaves Carl Crawford money if they're trying to stay under the cap' date=' and clearly their pen needs to be addressed more than their outfield. I'm very comfortable with Ellsbury, Drew, and Kalish in the outfield with Cameron as a 4th. [b']Adrian Gonzalez will replace so much more offense than we're giving him credit for. [/b]I see him as a 40+ HR guy at Fenway, and the new protection he'll provide to the guys in front of him has to be considered.

 

Think about how depleted their pen is. Are you comfortable with Wakefield and Doubront picking up the slack?

Not only that, but despite how good Beltre was last year, Youk is a good bet to better that. So while it is true they lose two good bats and only replace it with one, the one figures to be better than Youk was at 1B (given the new park) and the 3B figures to be better (more complete hitter). Those additions plus a healthy outfield should more than make up for what is lost from Martinez to whoever catches.

[ORS]

Cause Willingham is in his last contract yr and the Nats have already given up negotiating with him

He's an extra piece, though, and not a must have player. I think they'll get better offers at the deadline from a contender with needs.