Jason Bay going to the Mets

[Spudboy]

Straw man, my ass. I haven't misrepresented anyone's position.

Spud said Damon has broke down.

 

I demonstrated that he hasn't broke down.

 

And comparing Damon to Ellsbury is perfectly logical. Sox retain Damon's services. Ellsbury doesn't play. Offense is better. Defense is marginally worse or a push.

 

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

 

Did I ?

 

*sigh*

[26 to 6]

Strawman.

 

We're not comparing Ellsbury to Damon.

 

We're talking about the Sox deeming Damon "not a CF option" towards the end of his contract.

To be fair I don't think anybody expected Damon to be playing CF at the end of his contract back when we signed him. I know I didn't. I had my concerns even at the time.

 

Manny in RF at Fenway.

 

Really?

That is pretty funny. Could you imagine?

[Dipre]

To be fair I don't think anybody expected Damon to be playing CF at the end of his contract back when we signed him. I know I didn't. I had my concerns even at the time.

 

But in the context on this discussion, the Sox needed a CF. They didn't have the option of handing a big-money contract to Damon then have nowhere to play him.

 

That is pretty funny. Could you imagine?

 

This is exactly my point. The hilarity would have been such, that replays of Manny playing RF might have become the TV show with best ratings in the world.

[jacksonianmarch]

They offered 4yrs 44 million. Don't pretend like they didnt want him.

[Dipre]

They offered 4yrs 44 million. Don't pretend like they didnt want him.

 

They didn't offer more money.

 

Not to mention this is an enormous strawman. I've never said they didn't want him, they had a set value for him, and wouldn't go over it, and one of the driving factors was the reason already presented.

 

Focus on the point.

[jacksonianmarch]

I really dont think you have a clue what strawman arguments are.

[jacksonianmarch]

They didn't offer more money.

 

Not to mention this is an enormous strawman. I've never said they didn't want him, they had a set value for him, and wouldn't go over it, and one of the driving factors was the reason already presented.

 

Focus on the point.

 

And I will focus on the point. Your point is that the sox let Damon walk because they were really concerned about Damon's ability to play CF. But, they let him walk after offering him a massive contract. And then they complained that Damon didnt give them a chance to counter. It was all spin after that. Actually, the spin afterwards that you obviously bought into is the strawman.

[Dipre]

I really dont think you have a clue what strawman arguments are.

 

*sigh*

 

I do.

 

Apparently, you don't.

[jacksonianmarch]

*sigh*

 

I do.

 

Apparently, you don't.

 

that's a dominant, absolutely lights out argument. Are you 12 yrs old? I know you are but what am I?

[Dipre]

And I will focus on the point. Your point is that the sox let Damon walk because they were really concerned about Damon's ability to play CF. But' date=' they let him walk after offering him a massive contract. And then they complained that Damon didnt give them a chance to counter. It was all spin after that. Actually, the spin afterwards that you obviously bought into is the strawman.[/quote']

 

4/44 is a MASSIVE contract?

 

Really?

 

And besides that, iirc, the contract was actually 4/40. When in the latter years of a player's contract, one or two mill is probably the difference between moving him and having him clog up the roster.

 

Oh, and he also wanted No-trade protection, which he got in limited fashion from the Yanks, but is a no-no in most cases for the Sox.

[Dipre]

that's a dominant' date=' absolutely lights out argument. Are you 12 yrs old? I know you are but what am I?[/quote']

 

Well if you need me to explain what a strawman argument is, i will.

 

Since obviously there's a 12-year-old here and it's not me.

 

A strawman, in its nature, is refuting someone else's argument by "putting words on his mouth" (i'm operating under the assumption that you're 12), when you can't refute their original argument, to create the sense you attacked his argument when you really didn't.

 

Example:

 

Dipre:The Sox had concerns about Damon in CF long term, so they didn't offer a bigger contract or more years.

 

Jacko: But they did offer a contract. Don't pretend they didn't want him.

 

Strawman: Don't pretend they didn't want him.. This was never mentioned in the original argument, but implies that it was, in fact, said by the OP that the interest of the Red Sox was not legitimate. It's impossible for the person who's creating the strawman to prove that such a thing was said by the OP in any shape or form.

 

Feel free to ridicule yourself more if you so desire.

[Keeper]

If you believe in UZR, Ellsbury isn't much of a CF. Would Damon really have been any worse? Maybe, but not significantly.

 

Fact: Damon has played a lot more games in the outfield than DH for the Yankees and has been more productive than Ellsbury. He hasn't broke down.

 

Try again' date=' Teach.[/quote']

 

Straw man, my ass. I haven't misrepresented anyone's position.

 

Spud said Damon has broke down.

 

I demonstrated that he hasn't broke down.

 

And comparing Damon to Ellsbury is perfectly logical. Sox retain Damon's services. Ellsbury doesn't play. Offense is better. Defense is marginally worse or a push.

 

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

 

Did I ?

 

*sigh*

 

Lol.

 

No you aren't avoiding THE point. You just don't know the English language well enough to recognize my point. I'm glad you won't be teaching English to my children.

 

Learn to conjugate (and to proof read).

 

By the way, I made no reference to Bay or Damon.

 

 

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate? Broken down and broke down are the same goddamn thing, you supercilious motherf***er.

 

Nicest member. Nice to your idol, Dipre. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Cocos Disciples]

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate? Broken down and broke down are the same goddamn thing, you supercilious motherf***er.

 

Nicest member. Nice to your idol, Dipre. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Sheesh dude, relax. Everybody relax. Goddammit.

[Imperial59]

The argument wasnt his ability to play CF at the time. It was that he wouldnt make the field. Regardless' date=' the point is moot. Damon was a great fit for NY and would have at the very least been a pretty good fit for Boston.[/quote']

 

I'm curious where you imagine Damon would have played in Boston. The first year of his contract in 2005, he was horrible in center and he had been poor in center the two years before. The Red Sox already had a LF signed for the next 4 years. They had the best DH in baseball. And Damon certainly wasn't capable of playing the massive RF in Fenway, especially with his arm.

 

Where would Damon fit in Boston?

 

It's probably a blessing he didn't take Boston's offer because he immediately broke down defensively in center field the very first year of his contract with New York. Not to mention, he wasn't worth the $13 million he was being paid by New York in 2005, 2006 or 2007 according to WAR.

[riverside sluggers]

All this talk about how the Sox after losing Bay, they now dont have a clear cut #4 hitter. I checked the stats to make sure... Bay had only batted cleanup in 52 games last year (.233 avg), the bulk of his ABs came from batting 5th or 6th

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7143/situational;_ylt=AidlkFQx3yIsXidlllXbDV.FCLcF

[Dipre]

All this talk about how the Sox after losing Bay, they now dont have a clear cut #4 hitter. I checked the stats to make sure... Bay had only batted cleanup in 52 games last year (.233 avg), the bulk of his ABs came from batting 5th or 6th

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7143/situational;_ylt=AidlkFQx3yIsXidlllXbDV.FCLcF

 

In all fairness, the discussion never revolved about Bay being the cleanup hitter, but rather the fact that the Sox don't have a cleanup hitter, per my view, and didn't last year, because of my premise that Youk, while good at the spot, is not your typical four-hole hitter.

[Imperial59]

In all fairness' date=' the discussion never revolved about Bay being the cleanup hitter, but rather the fact that the Sox don't have a cleanup hitter, per my view, and didn't last year, because of my premise that Youk, while good at the spot, is not your typical four-hole hitter.[/quote']

 

I still don't understand what's wrong with him. He's one of the best all-around hitters in baseball and he's been one of the best hitters with RISP in baseball the last couple years. You claim he's just trying to get on base and not drive in runs, but I don't see anything in the numbers that suggest that, nor did I see when I watched the game. Maybe he's trying to draw a walk when no one's on base, but when he has an opportunity to drive in a run he becomes quite aggressive

[Red Foreman]

Damon played the field. He never had a problem taking the field. IMO' date=' he wasnt that bad defensively until this past season.[/quote']

 

 

And he wasn't that great offensively before this year. I'm sure Sox management wasn't heartbroken over losing out on those 29 HRs between '07-'08.

[BudLight]

And he wasn't that great offensively before this year. I'm sure Sox management wasn't heartbroken over losing out on those 29 HRs between '07-'08.

 

I'm sure both Boston and NYY never signed Damon to be a HR hitter. To say he wasn't great offensively until 2009 is a bit off though. He ranked in the top 25 in OPS in the A.L. in 5 of the last 6 years (players with over 500 ABs).

[riverside sluggers]

Mike Jacobs homered in a loss to the Rays on Friday night.

Jacobs is only hitting .209 this spring, but he has launched four home runs. Mets manager Jerry Manuel plans to bat him cleanup between David Wright and Jason Bay on Opening Day, a pretty good gig if you can get it. That doesn't mean he's recommended in fantasy leagues.

 

Wow Jason Bay (their prize acquisition) bats 5th, but Mike Jacobs bats cleanup?

[Keeper]

LOL Jerry Manuel. That's taking the R, L, R thing way too far. Mike Jacobs sucks.

[Jasonbay44]

Thats pretty ridiculous.

[Northern Star]

I saw the epic on Saturday, Bay looks lost. Swung through an 85 mph heater from Mather.