Clay Bucholz Trade Proposal

[Dowerk17]

was watching the Scott Van Pike show or w/e it is on ESPN and they had a little commercial thing in between with some old guy talking about the lackey deal and a proposed trade for Adrian Gonzales that the padres want Clay Bucholz and a Minor League prospect. what do you guys think about this? i dont see kelly being given up, or iglesias, but as much as i loved bucholz having a breakout year, id be 100% happy with this trade.

[redsticknation]

I gotta agree 100%.

 

As much as I love Bucholz, he is not a sure thing, unlike a proven hitter in his prime like Gonzales.

[CoachC.]

It was reported that one of Westmoreland/Kelly has to be given up in addition to Buch to get the deal done.

 

Buchholz, Kelly, B prospect (Almanzar?) for Adrian

[Dowerk17]

i wouldnt want to give up Kelly at all. i think we'd regret that big time if by any chance we dont get a ring out of it. but with lackey, and gonzales, i dont think we even will need a slugger in left anymore to be guaranteed the division, but imagine getting holliday too by some miracle. We'd have a ring in 2010

[Rdsxmbnt]

No thanks

[CoachC.]

i wouldnt want to give up Kelly at all. i think we'd regret that big time if by any chance we dont get a ring out of it. but with lackey' date=' and gonzales, i dont think we even will need a slugger in left anymore to be guaranteed the division, but imagine getting holliday too by some miracle. We'd have a ring in 2010[/quote']

 

Trade will not be going down without one of Westmoreland/Kelly. Hoyer knows all the prospects in the sox system. No cutting corners here. Need to give up talent to get some.

 

Don't let the Lackey signing fool you. We still need to shore up the offense. I think the real question is is the front office willing enough to shell out the money it would take to land Holliday to man LF?

[Dojji]

I suppose this thread was inevitable.

 

For the record I'm against trading Buchholz and additional prospects on top of Buchholz, for anyone not named Zach Greinke, Adrian Gonzalez, Albert Pujols, Hanley Ramirez or Felix Hernandez.

[Dowerk17]

I suppose this thread was inevitable.

 

For the record I'm against trading Buchholz and additional prospects on top of Buchholz, for anyone not named Zach Greinke, Adrian Gonzalez, Albert Pujols, Hanley Ramirez or Felix Hernandez.

 

so your saying your for the trade then? and i think theo wants gonzales bad enough that he will find a way.

 

as for the john lackey signing, im not trying to get too excited but i agree 100% with what francona said on WEIB or w/e the radio station is. If the pitchers do their job right, the batters dont have much work to do. which is why im excited about a power pitcher like lackey. i just think it takes off some of the pressure of us needing slugger after slugger after slugger

[Dojji]

I mean ANY other prospects on top of Buchholz. Buchholz AND Kelly AND Westmoreland? Pass.

[CoachC.]

I mean ANY other prospects on top of Buchholz. Buchholz AND Kelly AND Westmoreland? Pass.

 

Buchholz AND Kelly OR Westmoreland

[Rdsxmbnt]

Buchholz AND Kelly OR Westmoreland

 

Why would we trade two potential franchise players for a first baseman (not named Pujols)? Hanley or bust

[Dojji]

Buchholz AND Kelly OR Westmoreland

 

Either way, really.

[CoachC.]

Why would we trade two potential franchise players for a first baseman (not named Pujols)? Hanley or bust

 

Potential? Everyone has potential. I have potential. Fact is the AG would be a cornerstone of this organization for years to come. Hanley will not be traded, so you can forget about that.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Potential? Everyone has potential. I have potential. Fact is the AG would be a cornerstone of this organization for years to come. Hanley will not be traded' date=' so you can forget about that.[/quote']

 

I think we can all agree that Buchholz/Kelly/Westmoreland have much higher potential than any other prospects/young players in the organization. Personally I'm of the opinion that Buchholz will pitch at a very high level for the next 5 years for relatively cheap money. I find this much more valuable than two years of Gonzalez at decent money and then the next three years at HUGE money.

[SoxSport]

I think now there's a better than 50/50 chance an AdGon for Buchholz deal goes through. It's probably the catalyst for the Lackey signing. The braintrust probably figured that was the best way to go value-wise.

 

I said that in the Bay thread yesterday--that the next move might be Lackey if they couldn't sign Bay.

And then maybe AdGon. I didn't expect it so quickly, however.

 

Of course, they could always go with Kotchman or Johnson at 1B and Youks at 3B. That would allow them to retain Buchholz. They might also sign Beltre for 3B, but that requires dealing with Boras and that means overpaying.

 

LF looks like an Uggla or a Cameron at this point, platooning with Hermida. I wonder if Henry is just taking a year off from having to deal with Boras. They can do it now.

[Dojji]

Whichever of Miguel Cabrera and Adrian Gonzalez comes for the last value in prospects is the one we should get.

[CalvnHobs6]

I am VERY okay with this happening.

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Martinez

Ortiz

Drew

Hermida/Platoon

Scutaro

 

Lester

Beckett

Lackey

Matsuzaka

Wakefield

 

That's always fun to think about, and not too farfetched. As long as it's Westmoreland and NOT Kelly, this needs to be done.

[italstallianion]

I am VERY okay with this happening.

Ellsbury

Pedroia

Gonzalez

Youkilis

Martinez

Ortiz

Drew

Hermida/Platoon

Scutaro

 

Lester

Beckett

Lackey

Matsuzaka

Wakefield

 

That's always fun to think about, and not too farfetched. As long as it's Westmoreland and NOT Kelly, this needs to be done.

 

 

Yeah, we can sign a RHH and platoon him against lefties. Johnny Gomes anyone? (J/K)

[CoachC.]

Whichever of Miguel Cabrera and Adrian Gonzalez comes for the last value in prospects is the one we should get.

 

Cabrera (because of his contract) probably but who knows with Detroit asking for Buchholz or Ellsbury for Granderson

[CalvnHobs6]

Yeah' date=' we can sign a RHH and platoon him against lefties. Johnny Gomes anyone? (J/K)[/quote']

Or imagine if Hermida comes near his '07 numbers - .296/.369/.501 with 18 HRs - out of the 8th spot in the order. The platoon might not even be so essential.

[Spudboy]

Whichever of Miguel Cabrera and Adrian Gonzalez comes for the last value in prospects is the one we should get.

 

I agree with what you've said up thread. But I don't understand what you mean here.

 

Could you elaborate?

[Rdsxmbnt]

I agree with what you've said up thread. But I don't understand what you mean here.

 

Could you elaborate?

 

put an 'e' in 'last'

[ORS]

I think we can all agree that Buchholz/Kelly/Westmoreland have much higher potential than any other prospects/young players in the organization. Personally I'm of the opinion that Buchholz will pitch at a very high level for the next 5 years for relatively cheap money. I find this much more valuable than two years of Gonzalez at decent money and then the next three years at HUGE money.

And last year Lars Anderson was in this boat, and next year there will be potential stars from the '09 draft class that haven't been exposed at higher levels. I'm not inclined to trade your best and brightest unless it's for a major league best and brightest, and that's what Gonzalez is.

 

Of the two potential combos, I say go for the Buchholz/Westmoreland combo. I think Kelly is more likely than Westmoreland to continue his developmental trajectory, and I'd prefer they give up a mix of pitching/bats rather than all pitching.

[Gom]

I think you'd need to trade all three...Buchholz, Kelly, AND Westmoreland.

[CalvnHobs6]

And last year Lars Anderson was in this boat, and next year there will be potential stars from the '09 draft class that haven't been exposed at higher levels. I'm not inclined to trade your best and brightest unless it's for a major league best and brightest, and that's what Gonzalez is.

 

Of the two potential combos, I say go for the Buchholz/Westmoreland combo. I think Kelly is more likely than Westmoreland to continue his developmental trajectory, and I'd prefer they give up a mix of pitching/bats rather than all pitching.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said here. It took me until a few months ago to realize that though it's great to develop a farm system with promising young talent, often that's all they are - promising. Adrian Gonzalez is a fantastic player, and clearly worth a package of Buchholz, Westmoreland, and even one additional high ceiling/unproven kid.

 

By acquiring John Lackey for 5 years, Buchholz becomes expendable. (IMO)

[Plumpamania]

While this trade seems like it sets up the Adrain Gonzalez trade perfectly, dealing with prospects with potential is a very touchy subject. No one knows. Sure Bucchy already pitched a no-no, but he came back the next year with zero command.

 

My question is why not offer up Bucchy and Bowden for Gonzalez with a marginal prospect added in or even a Mike Lowell with us paying most of his salary as we were going to do with the Texas trade. I'm sure Hoyer wants what he wants, but ownership still runs the ship and netting back Bucchy and Bowden with even a Tazawa who, on the West Coast will net more fans from Japan/Asia for a team that could use the extra market desparetly.

 

Just some interesting options moving forward, as it could also initiate a trade for something a little more serious in terms of trading besides the long shot (Gonzalez)...maybe something a little more accommodating such as a Grady Sizemore with Cleveland being another team cutting costs as usual and Grady coming off a hard year of injuries. Another option could be looking into Dan Uggly for Michael Bowden and something more B prospect and using Uggla in LF and signing Atkins for 3B at $4~ million which is reported could net him.

 

Atkins and Uggla are both potent bats that would utilize the Monster moreso than Gonzalez. . .

[BoSox21]

I think you'd need to trade all three...Buchholz' date=' Kelly, AND Westmoreland.[/quote']

 

of course you'd think that

[Plumpamania]

Thinking of my possible option(s) listed:

 

1. CF Ellsbury

2. 2B Pedroia

3. C Martinez

4. 1B Youkilis

5. DH Ortiz

6. LF Uggla

7. RF Drew

8. 3B Atkins

9. SS Scutaro

 

Beckett - Lester - Lackey - Matzusaka - Buccholtz

[Keeper]

I think you'd need to trade all three...Buchholz' date=' Kelly, AND Westmoreland.[/quote']

 

You mean you hope they'd trade all three. Hoyer has reportedly only asked for two of them. I wouldn't necessarily say that's a bargain for the Sox, but getting Gonzalez for two unproven prospects with upside isn't a bad deal.

 

Atkins and Uggla are both potent bats that would utilize the Monster moreso than Gonzalez. . .

 

Gonzalez hits to all fields. If he can hit 35+ HRs playing half his games at Petco, imagine what he could doing playing half his games at Fenway.

[Cocos Disciples]

Thinking of my possible option(s) listed:

 

1. CF Ellsbury

2. 2B Pedroia

3. C Martinez

4. 1B Youkilis

5. DH Ortiz

6. LF Uggla

7. RF Drew

8. 3B Atkins

9. SS Scutaro

 

Beckett - Lester - Lackey - Matzusaka - Buccholtz

 

Not a huge fan of Uggla and Atkins instead of Gonzalez. Though, one must remember that it looks like we're holding on to Lowell.