Bay vs. Holliday

[Dipre]

It's also kind of disrespectful for a newbie with 4 posts to pass judgment.

 

QFT.

[Divinity]

It's also kind of disrespectful for a newbie with 4 posts to pass judgment.

 

I'm sorry I was totally out of line.

 

So do you have any dirt on Albert Pujols, Roy Halladay, Joe Mauer or Derek Jeter? They must be all be cheating to preform like they do.

[Cocos Disciples]

I'm sorry I was totally out of line.

 

So do you have any dirt on Albert Pujols, Roy Halladay, Joe Mauer or Derek Jeter? They must be all be cheating to preform like they do.

 

lol relax. I don't think Mariano is cheating, but it's not completely unreasonable or blasphemous to speculate given what we've seen.

[Dipre]

I'm sorry I was totally out of line.

 

So do you have any dirt on Albert Pujols, Roy Halladay, Joe Mauer or Derek Jeter? They must be all be cheating to preform like they do.

 

I have some dirt on Albert Pujols.

 

When he's on a streak, he never washes his socks.

 

The smell's effect must be almost the same as taking PEDs.

 

amirite?

[Cocos Disciples]

I have some dirt on Albert Pujols.

 

When he's on a streak, he never washes his socks.

 

Then he gets enough dirt on himself.

 

Hey-ooooooo

[ehaz]

I read a Bay vs Holliday article today that I thought was pretty interesting.

 

"Jason Bay in a word? Godsend.

 

Never forget that as this baseball season closes and baseball free agents everywhere take stock of what they think they are worth on baseball's open market. The public relations could very well get ugly for Boston's newest star left fielder, who isn't quite what the old left fielder was at the plate, but has nevertheless carved out a niche as one of the most productive players in baseball.

 

Think that's overblown? A quick look at American League statistics shows Bay among the league's top outfielders in home runs (36, first) , RBI (119, first), runs (103, second), walks (94, tied for second), slugging percentage (.537, first) OPS (.921, first) and on-base percentage (.384, sixth). And all that came despite a July slump in which he hit .192/.394/.295 with one home run and five RBI."

Funny how the article has not mentioned his HORRIBLE defense, how the Red Sox will be stuck with a DH in 2 years, not to mention, his scary increase in strikeouts (30% K rate!).

Here's a quote from Fangraphs:

Bay turned 31 about three weeks ago and is fresh from his best season in years. Since moving to the American League in July 2008, Bay has seen his strikeout rate leap in upwards to 30%. Bay strikes out, walks, and hits home runs. Two of those qualities are great to have and make the third tolerable. The problem begins with his age. He’s on the wrong side of 30 and while he does play in a notoriously hitter-friendly ballpark, his bat is likely to decline over the next four years instead of remain static or (somehow) improve.

His increasing K-rate is the first sign of a hitter starting to deteriorate. First signs that he's not seeing the ball well, not making enough contact. Then the power numbers will go, along with his defense which is already gone.

[TheMino007]

I honestly thought that Bay wasn't that bad a fielder. But of course I was used to seeing Manny Rameriz out there for 8 years, so that can bias a person. Anyway, if Bay is going to be a DH in a couple of years, why not just accept that and let him be the DH for the last few years of the contract? I don't think he will detriorate that much defensivly, but you never know. I really don't know what the Sox long term plans are with V-Mart, he certainly wont' be a catcher full time much longer, and will be exclusilvy a 1stbaseman/DH in a couple of years. Well, Ortiz will be gone, V-Mart could play 1st, Youk plays third, and Bay is a DH? Maybe then in 2010 you go after Carl Crawford and put him in LF?

 

As for Bay vs. Holliday I'll take re-signing Bay, even though Holliday could and probably will come cheaper. Bay has proven he is comfortable in and can play in Boston successfully. 35 homers and 100+ RBI is something that is hard to lose, espically with a lineup as sporatic as this one.

[Dipre]

As for Bay vs. Holliday I'll take re-signing Bay, even though Holliday could and probably will come cheaper. Bay has proven he is comfortable in and can play in Boston successfully. 35 homers and 100+ RBI is something that is hard to lose, espically with a lineup as sporatic as this one.

 

Not a chance there buddy.

 

And for the record, Holliday is a better ballplayer than Bay.

[TheMino007]

Bay is gonna what, 15 mill per over 5 years? What is Holliday gonna get?

And yea, after looking it up Holliday is superior player. Personally I love Jason Bay, and the Sox need to bring one of the two of them to Boston.

[Dipre]

Bay is gonna what, 15 mill per over 5 years? What is Holliday gonna get?

And yea, after looking it up Holliday is superior player. Personally I love Jason Bay, and the Sox need to bring one of the two of them to Boston.

 

A) No one's giving Bay 5 years.

 

B ) Holliday IS getting 5 years, probably at 20 per.

[rhet]

Think about it. Bay is the best defensive left fielder the Sox have had since Yaz.

[Dipre]

Bay is the best defensive left fielder the Sox have had since Yaz.

Think about it.

 

Matt Holliday please.

[rhet]

Matt Holliday please.

 

Can he play in the AL?

[Dipre]

Can he play in the AL?

 

I honestly think Oakland was a fluke.

 

Think about it, massive stadium, uber-weak lineup. Yet the guy still got on base at a near-elite clip.

 

Holliday + Green Monster= WIN.

[TheKilo]

What?

 

Jason Bay is beyond terrible.

[example1]

I honestly think Oakland was a fluke.

 

Think about it, massive stadium, uber-weak lineup. Yet the guy still got on base at a near-elite clip.

 

Holliday + Green Monster= WIN.

 

For some reason I just have dreams about Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez in the same lineup. Both with many years left to play, both high OBP mashers. It just feels like the direction this team should go.

 

Whether its fesible or not is another issue.

[Spudboy]

What?

 

Jason Bay is beyond terrible.

 

Thank you for saying this.

 

Bay is the worst defensive outfielder on the team. SSS but I saw him at Fenway against Baltimore and he was just very poor in LF.

 

As far as being the best Defensive Sox LF since Yaz? No.

 

Bay plays a lot like a young Jim Rice. Rice got better. Not great. But OK.

 

Is Bay better than Greenwell? Lol. No.

[Dipre]

For some reason I just have dreams about Holliday and Adrian Gonzalez in the same lineup. Both with many years left to play, both high OBP mashers. It just feels like the direction this team should go.

 

Whether its fesible or not is another issue.

 

I've been having that dream for months.

[kreinbihl34]

I had it too. My mom called it a wet dream.

[example1]

I believe that if the Sox don't land Holliday or Bay it will potentially be as big a concern as the loss of Teixeira was.

 

If they Sox aren't willing to blow other teams out of the water for their prefered player, Holliday will sign elsewhere with a more aggressive team, and the Yankees can jump in and take a chance on Bay at $4 yrs/70m ($17.5m) and pay more than the Sox would be willing to pay and cope with another great bat in the lineup.

 

I think Holliday might command a huge deal. Over the past 6 seasons his performance has an estimated worth of $118m Fangraphs; that would be $19.6m/yr. That seems like a good estimate of how much he will make to me. His last three seasons in reverse order are listed as worth $25m (09), $28m (08), $32m (07), so he could reasonably ask for a lot more.

 

Any time they can add wins above replacement to the lineup they evaluate the likely cost of those extra wins and whether it is worthy of pursuing at that cost. FA negotiations for the biggest names tend to have the highest cost due to the competitiveness of the bidding, so they tend not to be very good deals.

 

Sometimes they just need to get the guy who produces the most, not worrying too much about the cost of those extra wins. Given their thinking and evaluation of JD Drew and his worth, I can see them taking a similarly aggressive stance toward Holliday, just at a higher level. The extra cost can be justified as improving depth and predictable offensive production moving forward.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dunno example. Theo was all about dumping Manny mostly based on the contract, then based on his behaviour. Theo likes flexibility and getting Holliday limits that severely. Holliday is gonna get a 6-7 yr deal at 18-20 mil plus coin. That just doesnt seem like a Theo move.

[Dipre]

I dunno example. Theo was all about dumping Manny mostly based on the contract' date=' then based on his behaviour. Theo likes flexibility and getting Holliday limits that severely. Holliday is gonna get a 6-7 yr deal at 18-20 mil plus coin. That just doesnt seem like a Theo move.[/quote']

 

For how many years and how much money was JD Drew signed again?

 

And how much flexibility are the Sox gonna get after shedding some big contracts in '10 again?

[jacksonianmarch]

5yr 14 mil per season. That was a big contract at the time. I see Holliday surpassing that by 2 yrs and 4-6 mil per season

[Dipre]

5yr 14 mil per season. That was a big contract at the time. I see Holliday surpassing that by 2 yrs and 4-6 mil per season

 

If they could give Drew 14/5, they can give Holliday 18/6.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thats probably the low end of the ballpark for Holliday. But they would still be in the game.

[BSN07]

For how many years and how much money was JD Drew signed again?

 

And how much flexibility are the Sox gonna get after shedding some big contracts in '10 again?

 

He can't see that far ahead. His vision is affected from the lack of blood in his brain, due to the 24/7 erection he's currently walking around with...

 

There's about 50M coming off the books at my quick count, plus Tek and Agon if they are brought back next season.

[Dipre]

Thats probably the low end of the ballpark for Holliday. But they would still be in the game.

 

I really think that could get it done. Then again, it is Boras.

[BSN07]

I really think that could get it done. Then again' date=' it is Boras.[/quote']

 

It sounds reasonable. But Boras is the wild card as usual.

[rhet]

Thank you for saying this.

 

Bay is the worst defensive outfielder on the team. SSS but I saw him at Fenway against Baltimore and he was just very poor in LF.

 

As far as being the best Defensive Sox LF since Yaz? No.

 

Bay plays a lot like a young Jim Rice. Rice got better. Not great. But OK.

 

Is Bay better than Greenwell? Lol. No.

 

Bay is better defensively than Manny, Greenwell, and Rice - butchers all.

[ehaz]

I dunno example. Theo was all about dumping Manny mostly based on the contract' date=' then based on his behaviour. Theo likes flexibility and getting Holliday limits that severely. Holliday is gonna get a 6-7 yr deal at 18-20 mil plus coin. That just doesnt seem like a Theo move.[/quote']

Don't forget you're talking about the GM who paid 51 million just to talk to a player who had never thrown a pitch in the MLB, and then paid Drew 70 million, and Lugo 36 million in the same offseason. When the Red Sox play badly, Theo does some pretty huge things.