Bay vs. Holliday

[Dipre]

Don't forget you're talking about the GM who paid 51 million just to talk to a player who had never thrown a pitch in the MLB' date=' and then paid Drew 70 million, and Lugo 36 million in the same offseason. When the Red Sox play badly, Theo does some pretty huge things.[/quote']

 

In this case it's irrelevant, since the Sox made the postseason.

 

What i believe you tried to say is that when Theo really wants a player, he gets him.

[Wells]

Personally I think the Sox should make a push for Abreu.. he's not represented by Boras and we won 2 Titles with s***** defense in LF and a great bat.. Plus I htink he could be had for 10MM or even less possibly if the Sox wanna go some extra years.. Abreu is an OPS and RBI machine when the opportunities are there and he'd be a nice fit in the Sox' lineup.. if Bay wants to bitch about an extra year or 1 or 2 extra MM I say let bay walk.. he's too cold at times and Abreu is consistent to a fault..

 

as far as Holliday goes.. no way he ends up in Boston for his asking price

[Dipre]

Personally I think the Sox should make a push for Abreu.. he's not represented by Boras and we won 2 Titles with s***** defense in LF and a great bat.. Plus I htink he could be had for 10MM or even less possibly if the Sox wanna go some extra years.. Abreu is an OPS and RBI machine when the opportunities are there and he'd be a nice fit in the Sox' lineup.. if Bay wants to bitch about an extra year or 1 or 2 extra MM I say let bay walk.. he's too cold at times and Abreu is consistent to a fault..

 

as far as Holliday goes.. no way he ends up in Boston for his asking price

 

Abreu brings minimal power, not to mention he's about to enter his decline phase. It'd be better for them to solidify the position.

[ehaz]

In this case it's irrelevant, since the Sox made the postseason.

 

What i believe you tried to say is that when Theo really wants a player, he gets him.

 

Making the postseason isn't enough anymore. Especially when getting embarrassingly swept by the team that you had made a joke out of for the last 30 years. Theo considered it a disappointment, and the Red Sox have tons of cash coming off the books in 2010.

[Dipre]

Making the postseason isn't enough anymore. Especially when getting embarrassingly swept by the team that you had made a joke out of for the last 30 years. Theo considered it a disappointment' date=' and the Red Sox have tons of cash coming off the books in 2010.[/quote']

 

The postseason is a crapshoot. Specially between two evenly matched teams, Theo knows this and so should you.

[Wells]

Abreu brings minimal power' date=' not to mention he's about to enter his decline phase. It'd be better for them to solidify the position.[/quote']

 

Decline phase?

 

He's not declining.. He has been a mark of consistency ..

 

He was the biggest reason the Angels' offense was as good as it was.. without Abreu they don't win the West IMO..

 

15-20 HR, 100 RBI, 30 SB, .400 OBP, .800 OPS, .300 BA, 100 BB, 40-50 2B

 

these are the numbers you'll get from this guy and he isn't done yet .. he flies under the radar and sometimes it'll seem like he was born on first base.. he's never hurt.. and he could come slightly cheaper than Bay or Holliday..

 

I'm just confused as to why you think Bobby Abreu is entering his decline phase.. his age? I know he's 35 but 2 years at 16-18MM is not unreasonable.. of course the Halos may overpay but then again, who knows for sure?

 

No need to "lock up" the position quite yet

[Dipre]

Decline phase?

 

He's not declining.. He has been a mark of consistency ..

 

He was the biggest reason the Angels' offense was as good as it was.. without Abreu they don't win the West IMO..

 

15-20 HR, 100 RBI, 30 SB, .400 OBP, .800 OPS, .300 BA, 100 BB, 40-50 2B

 

these are the numbers you'll get from this guy and he isn't done yet .. he flies under the radar and sometimes it'll seem like he was born on first base.. he's never hurt.. and he could come slightly cheaper than Bay or Holliday..

 

I'm just confused as to why you think Bobby Abreu is entering his decline phase.. his age? I know he's 35 but 2 years at 16-18MM is not unreasonable.. of course the Halos may overpay but then again, who knows for sure?

 

No need to "lock up" the position quite yet

 

How old will he be in opening day 2010?

 

36, you say?

 

That's an age where unexpected decline can occur. Not to mention this FO has the money to get a consistent power threat for the LF position.

 

Abreu should be plan L for this team. Stop it.

[Dipre]

For the record, Abreu hit 29 2B and 15 HR last year.

 

Saying he'll hit 40-50 doubles is ludicrous. Specially at Fenway.

[Taliesin]

Decline phase?

 

He's not declining.. He has been a mark of consistency ..

 

He was the biggest reason the Angels' offense was as good as it was.. without Abreu they don't win the West IMO..

 

15-20 HR, 100 RBI, 30 SB, .400 OBP, .800 OPS, .300 BA, 100 BB, 40-50 2B

 

these are the numbers you'll get from this guy and he isn't done yet .. he flies under the radar and sometimes it'll seem like he was born on first base.. he's never hurt.. and he could come slightly cheaper than Bay or Holliday..

 

I'm just confused as to why you think Bobby Abreu is entering his decline phase.. his age? I know he's 35 but 2 years at 16-18MM is not unreasonable.. of course the Halos may overpay but then again, who knows for sure?

 

No need to "lock up" the position quite yet

 

Good evening JW.

[Wells]

Nice to see you, JK

[Wells]

For the record, Abreu hit 29 2B and 15 HR last year.

 

Saying he'll hit 40-50 doubles is ludicrous. Specially at Fenway.

 

Ludicrous? with the Wall over in LF asking him to pound it I hardly think "ludicrous" is accurate..

 

you ain't an expert, quit trying to be

[Dipre]

Ludicrous? with the Wall over in LF asking him to pound it I hardly think "ludicrous" is accurate..

 

you ain't an expert, quit trying to be

 

Hahaha talking about expertise, the guy who thinks Abreu goes to LF with power.

 

Please talk about basketball or something.

 

You don't know jack s*** about baseball, sir,

[Taliesin]

I'm trying to put myself into some kind of Hindu like trance to transcend the inevitable happening in The Bronx. Wish me luck w/ that. Carry on.

[Wells]

Good luck with that indeed, Tali..

 

Dipre.. you don't have to be such a dodo head when you post to me.. I'm aware that Holliday is a better option but when you factor in the cost and also that Boras represents him.. well.. I'm not thinking that Holliday is gonna be patrolling left field in home whites at Fenway.. so you can have your wet dream if you want it but I'm willing to bet it's not as likely to happen as some people think..

 

I do see this offseason ending up as one with no real big splash.. some moves will be made as always but after what happened with Teixeira ending up in NY I just don't feel like the OG is gonna get their hands too terribly dirty this time around.. I also don't seriously think they are going to get Abreu or even try.. it was simply something thrown out there for the sake of debate..

 

but it's ok.. I understand..

[Dipre]

Good luck with that indeed, Tali..

 

Dipre.. you don't have to be such a ********** when you post to me.. I'm aware that Holliday is a better option but when you factor in the cost and also that Boras represents him.. well.. I'm not thinking that Holliday is gonna be patrolling left field in home whites at Fenway.. so you can have your wet dream if you want it but I'm willing to bet it's not as likely to happen as some people think..

 

I do see this offseason ending up as one with no real big splash.. some moves will be made as always but after what happened with Teixeira ending up in NY I just don't feel like the OG is gonna get their hands too terribly dirty this time around.. I also don't seriously think they are going to get Abreu or even try.. it was simply something thrown out there for the sake of debate..

 

but it's ok.. I understand..

 

 

Excuse me?

 

I said Abreu hitting 40 doubles at Fenway because of the park was "ludicrous" and you came back with a personal attack, so there is obviously only one ********** here.

 

Again, i didn't say Abreu shouldn't be considered, just that he should be plan L, as in if they can't get a big bat, because this team has the money to add either one of Bay or Holliday if they so desire.

 

The payroll excuse is ********.

[Wells]

Sour moods all around tonight (and rightfully so) .. bygones, Dipre.. I'll officially retract "**********" from the record. No hard feelings.

 

I don't think they should entertain re-signing Bay if they're thinking about getting serious about Holliday... I'd love to see them make a run at him too, although I think it'll be the usual drama if they do decide to go for it.. but if the Sox OG pulls the same cheap ass ******** they're known for when it comes to talent then they will go nowhere with Boras and fast.. and they'll end up having to go for an Abreu (which I still wouldn't be disappointed by)..

 

Just not trying to get my hopes up here.. I feel like this is gonna end up as one of those stand pat offseasons.. then they'll hike ticket prices

[Dipre]

Sour moods all around tonight (and rightfully so) .. bygones, Dipre.. I'll officially retract "**********" from the record. No hard feelings.

 

I don't think they should entertain re-signing Bay if they're thinking about getting serious about Holliday... I'd love to see them make a run at him too, although I think it'll be the usual drama if they do decide to go for it.. but if the Sox OG pulls the same cheap ass ******** they're known for when it comes to talent then they will go nowhere with Boras and fast.. and they'll end up having to go for an Abreu (which I still wouldn't be disappointed by)..

 

Just not trying to get my hopes up here.. I feel like this is gonna end up as one of those stand pat offseasons.. then they'll hike ticket prices

 

Think about this.

 

After the shitstorm that ensued after the Tex situation, do you think they'd make the same mistake again?

[Wells]

Dealing with one of Boras' high enders could be considered the mistake.. and yes.. if they do go for Holliday I do think they'll operate in the same manner.. I do not see them changing their business model at all .. even after last year's Teixeira debacle.

[Dipre]

Dealing with one of Boras' high enders could be considered the mistake.. and yes.. if they do go for Holliday I do think they'll operate in the same manner.. I do not see them changing their business model at all .. even after last year's Teixeira debacle.

 

What i mean is.

 

Instead of the PR nightmare, offer him a discreet take-it-or-leave it offer. If he takes it, perfect, if not, move on to greener pastures.

[Wells]

What do you suppose Boras does with that "discreet" offer?

 

Unless it's an offer that can't be refused there won't be any "take-it-or-leave-it" offers made to a player like Holliday.. I will be seriously SHOCKED if anything like that happens..

 

Sometimes I think Boras is still pissed after being handcuffed during the Dice-K talks..

[Dipre]

What do you suppose Boras does with that "discreet" offer?

 

Unless it's an offer that can't be refused there won't be any "take-it-or-leave-it" offers made to a player like Holliday.. I will be seriously SHOCKED if anything like that happens..

 

Sometimes I think Boras is still pissed after being handcuffed during the Dice-K talks..

 

I kinds think so too. But if Boras wants to make the offer public, so be it, but just try to force him to cut on his ******** antics.

[example1]

5yr 14 mil per season. That was a big contract at the time. I see Holliday surpassing that by 2 yrs and 4-6 mil per season

 

So 7 yrs/$18-20 million per.

 

Thats probably the low end of the ballpark for Holliday. But they would still be in the game.

 

I think you are right about the salary, but I have a hard time seeing any other team in baseball go 7 years or more. It may happen elsewhere, but there is only one team that is likely to offer a contract like the one above, and that's the Yankees. If they want to spend the money to make it happen, they will be able to.

[Wells]

I kinds think so too. But if Boras wants to make the offer public' date=' so be it, but just [b']try to force him to cut on his ******** antics.[/b]

 

that's an uphill battle .. one I would want no part in.. good thing I'm just a fan

[Dipre]

that's an uphill battle .. one I would want no part in.. good thing I'm just a fan

 

Well that's why they pay Theo millions of dollars.

[Wells]

Yeah.. I only make $15/hr but at least my cable and internet is free.

[Dipre]

Yeah.. I only make $15/hr but at least my cable and internet is free.

 

I'd love to work where you work then.

[example1]

Sour moods all around tonight (and rightfully so) .. bygones, Dipre.. I'll officially retract "**********" from the record. No hard feelings.

 

I don't think they should entertain re-signing Bay if they're thinking about getting serious about Holliday... I'd love to see them make a run at him too, although I think it'll be the usual drama if they do decide to go for it.. but if the Sox OG pulls the same cheap ass ******** they're known for when it comes to talent then they will go nowhere with Boras and fast.. and they'll end up having to go for an Abreu (which I still wouldn't be disappointed by)..

 

It is an inevitable fact of being a baseball team that the Yankees can sign away any player they choose. The Red Sox FO doesnt get intimidated by this. Likewise they can't be intimidated by Scott Boras. It is still in Boras's interest to have the Red Sox purchasing his players.

 

Just not trying to get my hopes up here.. I feel like this is gonna end up as one of those stand pat offseasons..

 

They have too many very good prime and pre-prime players to stand pat. They have elite talent signed for multiple years. With the right pieces there's every reason to believe they can win. They have Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Drew, Lester, Buchholz, Papelbon, Bard, Matsuzaka, etc., available for multiple years, Beckett, Lowell, Ortiz and Victor Martinez available for one more, a deep bullpen and a team that wins 95 games yearly.

 

As far as I can tell, they have some money to spend this year and a lot more to borrow from next year if needed. I have a hard time seeing why they wouldnt be very aggressive right now to maxamize the production of the above group.

 

That aggressive spending could come in a few forms:

 

1. They could sign FAs: Holliday/Bay, Figgins, Lackey, etc.,

2. They could trade for a player with a higher salary (Roy Halladay), or trade and resign (Halladay, Felix Hernandez).

3. They could spend that money trying to solidify the team moving forward on current valuable younger players (extend Josh Beckett/Jon Papelbon/Victor Martinez/Ellsbury etc.,)

 

I will be surprised if they sit around not trying to improve themselves. That's just not Theo's style, especially now that the core of the team he has constructed is entering its prime. Seems like time to add some serious firepower and see what they can do.

[TheMino007]

Bay just turned down the Red Sox's offer of 4 years and 60 million.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/11/19/bay.redsox/index.html

[Cocos Disciples]

Not a surprise at all that he rejected, but here is Joe Sheehan's reaction:

 

That really seems like an upper bound for Bay. I can see wanting to wait out Holliday, but the one lesson from last winter is that teams have learned to quantify defense, and a guy like Bay gets eaten by the math.

[RedSox2737]

holliday doesn't want to come to boston.......he wants to go to the mets or yankees