Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

But totally unsurprising. Anyway' date=' PEDitte was there for all of it, and he can't get away from that.[/quote']

 

Come on man, he only did it once. You know that.

[bsox0407]

Last I checked...we won a few without our cheaters. Have you? Can YOU prove that he DIDN'T? No more than I can prove that he did. All we know is he cheated. I can't say I'm sorry that your "greatest comeback of all-time" was tainted. This isn't Dave Roberts taking PEDs. This is your big gun, who's nothing but a f***ing fraud.

 

Deal with it.

 

Please cheater were there for the Yankees to. you can't say they weren't.

 

http://scotchandpolitics.com/2007/12/14/yankees-steroid-shame-or-the-bronx-bastards

[BruinsRob1987]

Please cheater were there for the Yankees to. you can't say they weren't.

 

http://scotchandpolitics.com/2007/12/14/yankees-steroid-shame-or-the-bronx-bastards

 

lol. I see a few are in a bit of a tussle with GOM.

 

I was listening to both sides but your list right there really cemennted the debate in my opinion.

[Dipre]

lol. I see a few are in a bit of a tussle with GOM.

 

I was listening to both sides but your list right there really cemennted the debate in my opinion.

 

That was never the point of the discussion.

 

What was being discussed was the existence of a "Low risk/high reward" investment. I mentioned David Ortiz, but the NYY contingent immediately cried "PED" like it was pertinent to the discussion.

[yankees228]

Ok, genius, when did he start?

 

I can't prove he did steroids at a certain time. No one can. No one can prove when Arod starting taking roids. Or Giambi. Or Shef. Or Barry.

 

Stop acting like you know everything, you don't know s***. My satisfaction is that your two best players from your championship teams were cheats. Without them, you don't win s***. Hell, you probably don't make the playoffs.

 

You know who hasn't failed a test? Jeter, Mo, Posada, Rivera, and Bernie. You know who has? Arod, Giambi, Clemens, Sheff, Manny, and Papi.

 

Last I checked...we won a few without our cheaters. Have you? Can YOU prove that he DIDN'T? No more than I can prove that he did. All we know is he cheated. I can't say I'm sorry that your "greatest comeback of all-time" was tainted. This isn't Dave Roberts taking PEDs. This is your big gun, who's nothing but a f***ing fraud.

 

Deal with it.

 

Do you really think it's tainted, or is that just an attempt to rile the Red Sox fans?

 

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I couldn't care less about steroids.

[Dipre]

No there isn't such a thing. It's a name that FO's have been putting on "longshot" deals to make them more palatable to their owners/management and to their fans. When making an investment as the risk goes up the possible reward goes up. As the risk goes down' date=' so does the reward. Our past low risk/high reward types like Smoltz and Penny were really high risk/high reward. You invest less in those assets because their returns are very speculative. The lower investment doesn't change the risk. They are at a high risk of failing. A low risk investment like a Treasury Bill will have a smaller yield for your money, but there is little risk (at least before Obama) that the government would not payoff on its debt. That is a low risk/low return investment. Most prudent portfolios have more assets invested in low risk investments rather than high risk investments. Mark Texeira is a T-Bill. His return is big but not relative to the huge investment. His return for investment is relatively low. He's low risk low return asset. For every win he gives you, it costs you a lot, but he is fairly certain to produce a lot of wins (i.e. he is low risk). Injured bargain basement guys like Smoltz, etc are high risk because they are likely to produce few if any wins, but if they do produce wins, the yield will be high because little was invested in them. There is no such thing as a low risk/high yield investments. Those are frauds as is this vernacular that Front Offices have adopted to describe low cost- long shot players.[/quote']

 

David Ortiz.

 

Believe it or not' date=' when he was released by the Twins, his past performance gave no indication that he would become the player that he is. The risk that he would be an offensive force at that time was very high. Don't confuse the dollars invested with the risk. Ortiz was High Risk/High Yield. He was one of those rare long shots that came though as a hit. It's like a lottery ticket. Most people would view the $1 lottery ticket as a low risk/high reward investment, because it only costs a dollar. And if you hit the lottery, it reinforces that misconception. A lottery ticket is a very high risk/ high reward asset. To prove the point that the risk is extremely high, most people invest only a minuscule portion of their assets in lottery tickets. Only an idiot heading for bankruptcy would invest most of his assets in lottery tickets. You can't mistake the low dollar amount invested for the risk. The risk is huge which is precisely why the amount invested is small. Ortiz was high risk/high reward. He paid off. Then he became a low risk/low yield asset and the FO accordingly invested a lot of money in a long term contract to keep him.[/quote']

 

?

 

He had just come off a 20 HR/32 2B/.839 OPS season with the Twins. The Sox had no DH and decided to take a flier on a guy who had shown flashes of brilliance but had never been given a consistent opportunity. He had shown consistent high XBH/AB ratios in the past. The only ones who couldn't see the guy could hit were the Twins. That is, without a shadow of a doubt, a low risk/high reward proposition.

 

Same with the Mariners and Russ Branyan last year. That became a 32-HR performance.

 

Do you really think it's tainted, or is that just an attempt to rile the Red Sox fans?

 

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I couldn't care less about steroids.

 

How is that pertinent to the discussion?

 

Of course it's a blatant attempt to draw ire from Sox fans.

[ORS]

Do you really think it's tainted' date=' or is that just an attempt to rile the Red Sox fans?[/quote']

In case you need help here Gom, this is a rhetorical question. Everyone knows the answer.

 

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I couldn't care less about steroids.

Given the amount of known use and the reasonable suspicion of many others, it's hard to find competitive advantage from one team to the next. It was all over, still is in my mind.

[yankees228]

I'm curious as to whether he actually believes that. It's a fair question.

 

The discussion, for some, had moved away from risk, and gone to steroids in general.

[roary]

Why hasn't everyone come to the realization that crying PED use is pointless. I'm with ORS. It was all over and it will be all over as long as ballplayers earn multipe millions of dollars for being that much better than the next guy.

 

You can't change statistics and you can't change history. Ortiz was a steal, plain and simple.

[Dipre]

I'm curious as to whether he actually believes that. It's a fair question.

 

The discussion, for some, had moved away from risk, and gone to steroids in general.

 

Then i'll go ahead and ask:

 

Do you think David Ortiz and Russ Branyan were low-risk/high-reward propositions?

[yankees228]

Right, and not only was it rampant, but, personally, I just don't care. If these guys wanted to take a drug to give themselves a muscular advantage (or an advantage when it comes to injury recovery), so be it. It doesn't bother me in the least.

 

EDIT: at ORS

[yankees228]

Then i'll go ahead and ask:

 

Do you think David Ortiz and Russ Branyan were low-risk/high-reward propositions?

 

Absolutely.

[roary]

Right' date=' and not only was it rampant, but, personally, I just don't care. If these guys wanted to take a drug to give themselves a muscular advantage (or an advantage when it comes to injury recovery), so be it. It doesn't bother me in the least.[/quote']

 

I think that's taking it too far. I'm not advocating steroid usage, I'm just saying it was and is a fact and trying to insult each other over it is stupid.

[bsox0407]

Absolutely.

 

Cheap and had the power just needed some help too surround them in the order.

[yankees228]

I think that's taking it too far. I'm not advocating steroid usage' date=' I'm just saying it was and is a fact and trying to insult each other over it is stupid.[/quote']

 

I'm not advocating it either. Nowhere in my post did I say I wanted them to do it. I just don't care if they do it.

[Dipre]

Absolutely.

 

That's about the extent of my point. How Gom and Jacko managed to turn that into a full-blown "Pa-PED" discussion is beyond my realm of comprehension.

 

We all know Ortiz used, but even if he started using in 2003, if he had supplied the Sox with the .839 OPS he gave the Twins in '02 at DH, he would've still been an absolute success and the foremost example of a low-risk/high-reward signing.

[yankees228]

That's about the extent of my point. How Gom and Jacko managed to turn that into a full-blown "Pa-PED" discussion is beyond my realm of comprehension.

 

We all know Ortiz used, but even if he started using in 2003, if he had supplied the Sox with the .839 OPS he gave the Twins in '02 at DH, he would've still been an absolute success and the foremost example of a low-risk/high-reward signing.

 

When it comes to David Ortiz, whether it's in this discussion, or any other discussion, the fact that he did steroids is irrelevant to me.

 

For the sake of staying on topic, the Red Sox acquired David Ortiz at a low cost, and he wound up being a great hitter. Personally, I don't care why.

 

It's a low risk move, with a high reward potential.

[bsox0407]

I think that's taking it too far. I'm not advocating steroid usage' date=' I'm just saying it was and is a fact and trying to insult each other over it is stupid.[/quote']

 

Long time since you have been on here.

 

I really think almost all people would love if baseball rid the game of steroids.

[Gom]

I forgot about PEDitte. Eh. I don't think he juiced until Clemens came on anyways, but whatever. Fair enough. We still win a few without PEDitte. You're not even a .500 club without the Roid Boys.

[ORS]

Whatever. Your trolling attempt blew up in your face. You lose.

 

Lahooo-Zaherr.

[Lester82]

Bay lusts to play for those Mariners!

 

[Emmz]

No he doesn't, he'd:

 

Stand on his head and sing on E. Martinez Way to play for M's.

 

In all seriousness, I guess the Mariners are making moves again. Let's hope (For their sake) that they don't turn out like Sexson, Beltre, Silva, Bedard, etc.

[Gom]

Whatever. Your trolling attempt blew up in your face. You lose.

 

Lahooo-Zaherr.

 

You attempt to be funny fell flat. Now that Manny is gone, and Ortiz is clean, enjoy another 86 years of futility.

[Tyler Durden]

I forgot about PEDitte. Eh. I don't think he juiced until Clemens came on anyways' date=' but whatever. Fair enough. We still win a few without PEDitte. You're not even a .500 club without the Roid Boys.[/quote']

 

Red Sox fans still talk about PED's?

 

http://nomaas.org/images/ortiz_milli.jpg

[Emmz]

You attempt to be funny fell flat. Now that Manny is gone' date=' and Ortiz is clean, enjoy another 86 years of futility.[/quote']

 

Okay there, Nostragomus.

[Emmz]

Red Sox fans still talk about PED's?

 

http://nomaas.org/images/ortiz_milli.jpg

 

Yankee fans still post macros of Manny and Papi?

[a700hitter]

Why is this guy still here. He contributes nothing. In every single one of his posts, he is either trolling, attacking a member or both. Mods, enough is enough with this jerk.

[Dipre]

I've seen a lot of idiots during my time here. Tyler Durden is clearly their pit-boss.

[bsox0407]

I've seen a lot of idiots during my time here. Tyler Durden is clearly their pit-boss.

 

there are a lot. people who have been here since 2005 and have less than 1000 posts. i mean come on.

[riverside sluggers]

http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/6431344541

 

Out in Fenway West, Dodgers sure do love former Red Sox. They have met with agent for Nick Green

 

 

Bob Nightengale of USA Today says he wont be surprised if Beltre signs with the Red Sox, if he declines arbitration