Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Dipre]

Bingo

 

Bingo my ass.

 

You were all over Teixeira, the FO spit the bit, and now you're against acquiring a similar player?

 

What the f*** is wrong with you?

 

And agreeing with Doiji for good measure!

[TheKilo]

Bingo my ass.

 

You were all over Teixeira, the FO spit the bit, and now you're against acquiring a similar player?

 

What the f*** is wrong with you?

 

And agreeing with Doiji for good measure!

 

If you can't tell the difference between raping your farm system vs giving the better player only money, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Teixeira for $$ >>>>>>>>>>> Gonzalez for four of our five best prospects, including Buchholz.

[Dipre]

If you can't tell the difference between raping your farm system vs giving the better player only money, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Teixeira for $$ >>>>>>>>>>> Gonzalez for four of our five best prospects, including Buchholz.

 

I understand this.

 

However, unless the final package were to include Bucholz, i'm all for it.

 

It's that simple.

[TheKilo]

And why the f*** would the new GM of thSan Diego trade Gonzalez to the Red Sox without getting Buchholz AND Kelly AND Anderson AND whoever else they want back?

[Dipre]

And why the f*** would the new GM of thSan Diego trade Gonzalez to the Red Sox without getting Buchholz AND Kelly AND Anderson AND whoever else they want back?

 

Then he doesn't get him.

 

Whoever he wants except Buch, i'm riding on that train too. All i'm saying is that if the possibility exists to get the man without massively overpaying, then they should go for it. Just set a price and stick with it like they did with Tex but prospect wise. (It'll probably fail just as bad, i know)

[TheKilo]

Fair 'nuff. If you could get him for Kelly/Anderson/++ I'm all aboard that train.

[Dipre]

Fair 'nuff. If you could get him for Kelly/Anderson/++ I'm all aboard that train.

 

Listen, the reason i've always thought he could be acquired without giving up Bucholz is in their farm system.

 

Look it up and find me three decent position prospects withing three years of the big club.

 

I'll wait for you here.

[TheKilo]

Or, they could simply draft better and build around Gonzalez.

[Dipre]

Or' date=' they could simply draft better and build around Gonzalez.[/quote']

 

It's a bit late to start.

[Dojji]

Unless they can re-sign him.

 

If the Padres think they can extend Gonzalez -- if they even think it's possible-- there's NWIH they deal him before midseason.

[SCM33]

And why the f*** would the new GM of thSan Diego trade Gonzalez to the Red Sox without getting Buchholz AND Kelly AND Anderson AND whoever else they want back?

 

I had this same argument at the trading deadline. SD wont trade them unless they get the world in return...otherwise, what's in it for them?

[Dipre]

I had this same argument at the trading deadline. SD wont trade them unless they get the world in return...otherwise' date=' what's in it for them?[/quote']

 

As stated above, they CAN get the world without Bucholz.

 

And what they would want is position players. That farm is barren.

[example1]

I can't believe this conversation is really happening here.

 

What's in it for San Diego? They would get 5-6 players who are all very promising, possibly an offer where one team WAY overpays for a player because they can. Why would you want the customer who just got a $100,000 bonus to come into your store? The Sox have a number of (percieved) good lottery tickets. From the virtually guaranteed win (Buchholz) to the probable useful MLB regular (Bowden, Tazawa, Kelly) to the possible high-upside contributer (Kalish, Reddick, Anderson) to the big bodied/high tools projects (Almanzar, Middlebrooks, Westmoreland, Gibson, Lin). There's a shitload to like in what the Sox are selling.

 

That said, the Sox cannot trade Buchholz unless they have addressed their pitching future. With Beckett's impending FA status, and Dice-K's inconsistency, they would really have no option for a 4th or 5th starter unless they have Buchholz or another top 3 guy. Add in the fact that's he's CHEAP, and he's GOOD, and that he could be REALLY GOOD, and they deal him at the risk of crippling their pitching staff for years to come.

 

They have plenty of prospects that can be dealt--and lots of good ones, I believe, who cannot (the 2009 draft class, in particular). Would anyone complain if they dealt Bowden, Anderson, Reddick and Lin to San Diego? How about Kalish, Kelly, Tazawa and Rizzo? That's a lot of good talent going the other way, and none of it impacts the team immediately.

 

If they obtain that bat--say it is Gonzalez, and resign Bay or get Holliday, then I'd be open to some version of Buchholz for Halladay or Buchholz for Felix. Obviously I prefer the later. Even with Halladay, they'd have a good shot next year with:

 

Halladay, Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Scrap Heap as a rotation and a 3, 4, 5 of Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Holliday with Youkilis, Ortiz and Drew behind it. Jesus.

[bsox0407]

I can't believe this conversation is really happening here.

 

What's in it for San Diego? They would get 5-6 players who are all very promising, possibly an offer where one team WAY overpays for a player because they can. Why would you want the customer who just got a $100,000 bonus to come into your store? The Sox have a number of (percieved) good lottery tickets. From the virtually guaranteed win (Buchholz) to the probable useful MLB regular (Bowden, Tazawa, Kelly) to the possible high-upside contributer (Kalish, Reddick, Anderson) to the big bodied/high tools projects (Almanzar, Middlebrooks, Westmoreland, Gibson, Lin). There's a shitload to like in what the Sox are selling.

 

That said, the Sox cannot trade Buchholz unless they have addressed their pitching future. With Beckett's impending FA status, and Dice-K's inconsistency, they would really have no option for a 4th or 5th starter unless they have Buchholz or another top 3 guy. Add in the fact that's he's CHEAP, and he's GOOD, and that he could be REALLY GOOD, and they deal him at the risk of crippling their pitching staff for years to come.

 

They have plenty of prospects that can be dealt--and lots of good ones, I believe, who cannot (the 2009 draft class, in particular). Would anyone complain if they dealt Bowden, Anderson, Reddick and Lin to San Diego? How about Kalish, Kelly, Tazawa and Rizzo? That's a lot of good talent going the other way, and none of it impacts the team immediately.

 

If they obtain that bat--say it is Gonzalez, and resign Bay or get Holliday, then I'd be open to some version of Buchholz for Halladay or Buchholz for Felix. Obviously I prefer the later. Even with Halladay, they'd have a good shot next year with:

 

Halladay, Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Scrap Heap as a rotation and a 3, 4, 5 of Victor Martinez, Adrian Gonzalez and Matt Holliday with Youkilis, Ortiz and Drew behind it. Jesus.

 

i would much rather have Felix rather than Halladay. Halladay is 32 and Felix is 23. Felix is also much cheaper. i would rather go after felix as hard as possible rather than Gonzalez because the pitching is what we need more. we have to make one or the other. i think it will be really hard to get both in one off season.

[Dipre]

i would much rather have Felix rather than Halladay. Halladay is 32 and Felix is 23. Felix is also much cheaper. i would rather go after felix as hard as possible rather than Gonzalez because the pitching is what we need more. we have to make one or the other. i think it will be really hard to get both in one off season.

 

Please explain this.

[bsox0407]

Please explain this.

 

if we have just what we have we have Beckett, Lester, Dice-k Buchholz and a fifth starter. i think if we don't have to give up buchholz to get felix which i doubt it will make a great starting five. i am a guy who thinks pitching beats good hitting. if he does get involved with the trade we still have a great starting 4. plus if we sign bay or holliday then i think we could just as well stick with the infield we got if we sign alex gonzalez and then re-sign kotchman. lowell at third youk at first and V-mart a catcher.

[Dojji]

i think if we don't have to give up buchholz to get felix which i doubt it will make a great starting five.

 

This is ambiguous.

 

Do you mean you doubt we'll have to give up Buchholz for Felix?

 

Or do you mean if we can get Felix without giving up Buchholz, which you doubt is possible?

[bsox0407]

This is ambiguous.

 

Do you mean you doubt we'll have to give up Buchholz for Felix?

 

Or do you mean if we can get Felix without giving up Buchholz, which you doubt is possible?

 

i think that he won't be trade to us without Buchholz unless we swamp them with prospects that i think i would rather hold on to like Anderson and reddick and tazawa.

[Dojji]

Believe me, if I have the choice between keeping Buchholz and keeping Reddick and Tazawa, I keep Buchholz. And I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

[bsox0407]

Believe me' date=' if I have the choice between keeping Buchholz and keeping Reddick and Tazawa, I keep Buchholz. And I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it.[/quote']

 

i agree but i would rather give up more of the lesser prospects. and keep buchholz.

[Dojji]

OK, so we're pretty much on the same page here then. 's cool.

 

Since without Felix I think their best SP is probably Ryan Rowland-Smith though, I think you can count on the Mariners to hold out for Buchholz. Especially because they have more than enough money coming off the books in the next couple years to make Felix a happy man.

[bsox0407]

OK, so we're pretty much on the same page here then. 's cool.

 

Since without Felix I think their best SP is probably Ryan Rowland-Smith though, I think you can count on the Mariners to hold out for Buchholz. Especially because they have more than enough money coming off the books in the next couple years to make Felix a happy man.

 

yeah and he won't be a free agent until 2011 and halladay is a free agent after next season. if we get him we can extend felix contract past 2011 prolly to 2015 we could have a great pitcher and after that if he is bad we could trade him for some young pitching and get some good prospects.

[Jasonbay44]

yeah and he won't be a free agent until 2011 and halladay is a free agent after next season. if we get him we can extend felix contract past 2011 prolly to 2015 we could have a great pitcher and after that if he is bad we could trade him for some young pitching and get some good prospects.

 

If we acquire Felix, the last thing I would be thinking about is dealing him for prospects down the road. Besides, if he was "bad' why would any team trade good prospects for him?

[bsox0407]

If we acquire Felix' date=' the last thing I would be thinking about is dealing him for prospects down the road. Besides, if he was "bad' why would any team trade good prospects for him?[/quote']

 

he might be like a guy who can't pitch in a big market.

[Dojji]

he might be like a guy who can't pitch in a big market.

 

If there's any risk of that -- any at ALL -- then you say the heck away from Felix Hernandez.

[Dojji]

I wonder if the Rockies would consider moving Todd Helton.

 

There's quite a bit of logic to a move like that at this point,. While Helton isn't a traditional power hitting 1B anymore he's a modern Wade Boggs in terms of being a tough out, would beat Lowell by several orders of magnitude offensively and defensively.

 

Meanwhie his already cumbersome contract is about to reach the really expensive stage just as the Rockies want to sign some of their new young players. There's a couple pretty good free agent first basemen they could go after to replace him and save a lot of money to keep certain of their stars on the team with. (Nick Johnson springs to mind as a guy who would replace most of Helton's production for a much lower AAV). It suggests that the Rockies could at least be considering finding him a new home.

 

While the AAV is high the years on Helton's deal are shorter now and would basically be a 2 year deal for us at a manageable contract for a team like Boston, especially if Helton remains a plus defender at first base for the next two years and continues to be one of the few players in the league who surrenders outs even more grudgingly than Youkilis.

[Keeper]

I'm going to pass on Helton. Aside from the home/road splits differential, he's 36 years old. How much does he really have left in the tank? And I don't think the Rockies would even consider letting him go. He's the face of their franchise.

 

However, Helton at 1st and Youk at 3rd would be an upgrade over Youk at 1st and Lowell at 3rd. I just think if the Sox got Helton it would mean they couldn't reach an agreement with the Padres on Adrian Gonzalez. Helton would be a stopgap acquisition who could help the team. Gonzo would be a significant acquisition who would help the team.

[bostonule25]

the in thing means what each team gets in the trade the sox get werth and Hanley and so on and so forth. the sox should hold onto papelbon and save him and just try to get hanley.

 

By dealing paps we would have to give far less prospects

[Dipre]

By dealing paps we would have to give far less prospects

 

And who closes games then?

[Dojji]

Quite a few closers on the FA market this year. Surprisingly many really.