Official 2009-2010 Hot Stove season thread

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think this pretty much sums up where the Red Sox are after the Winter Meeetings. Can he (like Shaughnessy) be wrong too? Maybe all the writers that follow the Sox are wrong.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20091211red_sox_stuck_in_a_corner_spending_big_on_free_agents_only_way_out/

Oh yes. The media is right, the front office is wrong. I think you've just split the atom.

[yankees228]

That's a very convenient position to take. When the rules are what allow for an inequity to exist' date=' the only place you can go to discuss right and wrong is outside the rules.[/quote']

 

I'll assure you, once more, that my stance in this argument has nothing to do with my fandom. Choose to believe that if you want, or choose to ignore it. That's your call.

 

I think your argument that the system is flawed has merit. I think you've done a good job showing that the system could use some changes. However, where we disagree, is whether or not that makes the Yankees' championship, or any other championship, anything less than 100% legitimate. In my opinion, just because the system has flaws, as long as all participants stay within the rules, their accomplishments are legitimate.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think this pretty much sums up where the Red Sox are after the Winter Meeetings. Can he (like Shaughnessy) be wrong too? Maybe all the writers that follow the Sox are wrong.

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/20091211red_sox_stuck_in_a_corner_spending_big_on_free_agents_only_way_out/

 

Last I checked Theo isn't a writer for any major newspaper so yes they could all be wrong. But all that logic is is common sense.

 

We have a couple holes to fill and ("supposedly") won't trade young players so the way to fill them is through FA where we have money to spend.

 

Btw you are so shallow and fail to look at things beyond the surface. How could any writer possibly know what the master plan for this offseason is or what Theo has been working on? Do you really operate under the assumption that Theo is sitting around on his ass all offseason doing nothing?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You are the biggest stooge ever. They run a business. Why would they want to operate at a loss? Why would they not want to make as much as possible? Isn't that the point behind Capitalism? Why would they change their business model if the seats are still filled every night?

 

Like I said before, if you don't like it, stop spending your money on the team and tune out if need be. If you don't like how they are spending the money, don't spend it on them. It seems a very easy point to grasp. If no one shows up to the games, I'm sure they might change the way they operate. Thing is the FO knows for every fan that walks out and doesn't buy season tickets or single game tickets or whatever, there will be 2 more to step up and buy them. A high school kid in his first term of economics could probably grasp this concept, but the guy who works for a bank and the sites resident senior citizen can't seem wrap their heads around it...

 

*applause*

[a700hitter]

Oh yes. The media is right' date=' the front office is wrong. I think you've just split the atom.[/quote']At least I didn't have to use spell check to spell atom correctly.

[ORS]

Second in revenue and second in spending. I would say that is pretty competitive. There are 28 teams behind them' date=' but the Red Sox owners cry poverty more than the other 28 combined. They should stop whining. [b']If they lose the Division to the Yankees every season, it's not because of resources. [/b] They need to do a better job. Dice K, Lugo, Renteria, Penny, and Smoltz were all stupid moves and a wastes of money. They need to stop crying about their competitive disadvantage.

To the whole post: Stating the realities in play does not constitute crying. They are stating fact, that it's an inequitable system.

 

To the part in bold: And they haven't, but when/if the Yankees target the correct players, yes it is. They lose to the Yankees because the Yankees have better players. Better players cost more money. The Yankees have more money. This is a pretty simple concept.

[a700hitter]

No' date=' I reserve the one-liners for responses to posts that need no further comment. I expand my responses depending on the merits of the offending post.[/quote']Why don't you just eliminate the obnoxious s***. Do I drop obnoxious one-liners on you when I don't agree with your positions in your discussions. If you want to be a trolling dick, I'll play that game with you too. I can help further deteriorate the quality of the content on this board. You are a knowledgeable guy, but don't start to believe your own press clippings, because really smart people don't need to act like trolling dicks.

[yankees228]

To the whole post: Stating the realities in play does not constitute crying. They are stating fact, that it's an inequitable system.

 

To the part in bold: And they haven't, but when/if the Yankees target the correct players, yes it is. They lose to the Yankees because the Yankees have better players. Better players cost more money. The Yankees have more money. This is a pretty simple concept.

 

So many more things go into a successful season than just targeting the right players, and having the money to sign them. To ignore those things, once again, is devaluing the accomplishment.

[a700hitter]

To the whole post: Stating the realities in play does not constitute crying. They are stating fact, that it's an inequitable system.

 

To the part in bold: And they haven't, but when/if the Yankees target the correct players, yes it is. They lose to the Yankees because the Yankees have better players. Better players cost more money. The Yankees have more money. This is a pretty simple concept.

Oh, I though the superior player scouting and development had something to do with it. Silly me. You need to stop whining. It really shows your petty sign. I hate it when the Yankees win, but it's just stupid to try to denigrate the accomplishment.

[yankees228]

Oh' date=' I though the superior player scouting and development had something to do with it. Silly me. You need to stop whining. It really shows your petty sign. I hate it when the Yankees win, but it's just stupid to try to denigrate the accomplishment.[/quote']

 

Nope, money is far and away the most important factor. That's why the team with the highest payroll has won the World Series every year. Oh wait...

[a700hitter]

I'm a sicko? Why because I don't fall into deep depressions when the Sox don't win? Or take it as a personal slight when they don't make moves?

 

Love your family, like your teams. Gain some perspective. If a sports franchise losing a game has such an effect on you emotionally, that's a "you" problem.

 

Of course I like to see the Sox win, but when they do, I have moved on from it about an hour after the game ends. Same as when they lose. Maybe a little longer for when the season ends(good or bad). But after a couple days I'm looking towards next season. It's just the way I am. I enjoyed the WS titles immensely. But by about January I'm ready for a new season, and the previous season doesn't really matter to me a whole lot.

The "sicko" comment was an obvious joke. Go back and look at the context, then maybe you can get some perspective.

[a700hitter]

So many more things go into a successful season than just targeting the right players' date=' and having the money to sign them. To ignore those things, once again, is devaluing the accomplishment.[/quote']Is it a heavy flow day for you today 228. Maybe you need some midol... just saying.

 

Geez, that was kinda stupid and obnoxious of me, wasn't it, ORS? I apologize for adding this useless trolling content.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Oh' date=' I though the superior player scouting and development had something to do with it. Silly me.[/quote']

 

At least I didn't have to use spell check to spell 'thought' correctly.

[yeszir]

CLICK HERE TO USE YOUR IGNORE LIST

 

Seriously. Please stop with the insults on all ends.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

edit

[yankees228]

Is it a heavy flow day for you today 228. Maybe you need some midol... just saying.

 

Geez, that was kinda stupid and obnoxious of me, wasn't it, ORS? I apologize for adding this useless trolling content.

 

Oh, it's OK, you thought my post had no merit so you decided it was OK to insult me. Quite appropriate.

[a700hitter]

Oh' date=' it's OK, you thought my post had no merit so you decided it was OK to insult me. Quite appropriate.[/quote']Clever and funny... don't you think? ... Why am I asking you what you think? I should just tell you what you think.

[bsox0407]

Supposedly the Cardinals offered Holliday a contract. Terms are undisclosed.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4735513

[italstallianion]

CLICK HERE TO USE YOUR IGNORE LIST

 

Seriously. Please stop with the insults on all ends.

 

 

Thank you yeszir. You've saved me countless facepalms in the future. Although the site will be less fun without reading Gom's posts.

[yeszir]

Gammons, per mlbtraderumors:

 

If the Red Sox don't end up with either Bay or Matt Holliday, Gammons opined that Boston could pursue a defense-first strategy for a season by signing Mike Cameron and Xavier Nady. Or, Boston could just save their money now and stand pat until mid-season before making any trades.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nady is not a good defensive outfielder. He might be just what the doctor ordered for the sox though. In that stadium, he could be a 25-30 homerun hitter

[Marcellus Wallace]

Sox need to pony up for Bay or Holliday. Nady and Cameron just arent that good.

[ORS]

So many more things go into a successful season than just targeting the right players' date=' and having the money to sign them. To ignore those things, once again, is devaluing the accomplishment.[/quote']

Right, the Yankees make the playoffs every year because they do the other little things so well. What was I thinking?

[a700hitter]

Last I checked Theo isn't a writer for any major newspaper so yes they could all be wrong. But all that logic is is common sense.

 

We have a couple holes to fill and ("supposedly") won't trade young players so the way to fill them is through FA where we have money to spend.

 

Btw you are so shallow and fail to look at things beyond the surface. How could any writer possibly know what the master plan for this offseason is or what Theo has been working on? Do you really operate under the assumption that Theo is sitting around on his ass all offseason doing nothing?

I post a link from the Herald where the writer gives his view of where the Sox are at after the Winter Meetings, and you think that an appropriate reply is to personally attack me? A mature response would have been to discuss the merits of the author's opinion. I realize that your stated profession is Free-loader, but we do have certain rules here whether or not you have rules and discipline in your personal life. There's no free ride here.

[TheKilo]

So much for personal attacks being inappropriate replies.

 

When you say "I think this pretty much sums up where the Red Sox are after the Winter Meeetings. Can he (like Shaughnessy) be wrong too? Maybe all the writers that follow the Sox are wrong."

 

It's clear you share the same beliefs as Shank and Silverman (who's usually OK, but this article isn't written well at all).

 

Do you think Theo is just going to sit by and idly do nothing? That all he cares about is raking in the cash?

[a700hitter]

So much for personal attacks being inappropriate replies.

 

When you say "I think this pretty much sums up where the Red Sox are after the Winter Meeetings. Can he (like Shaughnessy) be wrong too? Maybe all the writers that follow the Sox are wrong."

 

It's clear you share the same beliefs as Shank and Silverman (who's usually OK, but this article isn't written well at all).

 

Do you think Theo is just going to sit by and idly do nothing? That all he cares about is raking in the cash?

Sharing the opinions of the authors warrants a personal attack? Really? I was hoping for a discussion of the article. Discussion of issues is why I come here. I don't come here for hit and run insults. Is that why you are here? BTW, what substantive issue are you trying to discuss with me? So, you are defending insult and run or troll and run posts?

[Spudboy]

What in the wild wild world of sports is a goin' on here?

 

What did a700 say or do that warranted such a response?

 

It's just baseball.

[Dojji]

I honestly wouldn't mind a "step back" this year. Course in midseason I'll likely feel differently, but I think we'll be in a much better position to reshape the team next offseason.

 

I think this season is going to be moderately disappointing no matter what moves we make and we're going to have a lot of positions to sort out over the next 2-3 years as our youth movement starts to get expensive.

 

We've got a tidal wave of prospects that'll be hitting the team within the next couple seasons anyway, and taking a no-pressure season to evaluate some of them is probably a good thing. In particular, there's about 10 guys I think we'll know a lot more about in a year who you ccould legitimately project as playing for Boston next year if things fall right, and maybe playing at a high level in 2-3..

 

Kelly

Tazawa

Reddick

Kalish

Exposito

Wagner

Ramirez (if the Lowell deal goes through as predicted)

Lars Anderson

Lowrie

Doubront

 

 

And a guy like me who watches the bit players and tries to keep an eye out for pleasant surprises could add another 6-7 more starting with Dusty Brown, Aaron Bates. Tug Hulett and Dustin Richardson. Maybe throw Bryce Cox in there too -- he's struggled, a lot, but he looks like he might be FINALLY getting his career on track again. And this besides guys like Hermida and Ramon A. Ramirez who we might be in on for a longer haul than some people think.

 

Point is that we have a ton of guys of the "one year or maybe a bit more away" category, and a step backwards to let them catch up makes some logical sense. A year of evaluation and small patches to hold us over until these guys are ready wouldn't be totally amiss -- especially because as constituted, we've still got a better chance to make the playoffs than all but about 3 teams around the league on the strength of our starting rotation and our diminished but still above average lineup. Even if the worst happens we've made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years, if it becomes 6 of the last 8, I don't think we should be complaining.

[SCM33]

How long till we see the ban bus roll through?

[Peter Backgammons]

I love and hate hot stove season because the littlest names cause huge commotions. There's no obvious route this offseason so I'm very interested in seeing what Theo does for the team. I know some people disagree but I've always put faith in the FO. I figure it's their full time job to make the team better and they have a whole team of statisticians to back them up. I'm just a bum so what do I know. My faith in Bellichick also used to get me through football season. Now, maybe not.