6/30 @ Baltimore

[WhiskeyBreath]

Sometimes you go 0-8 against another team' date=' and blow four 6th inning or later leads including a six run one and a walkoff loss.[/quote']

 

hahaha

[Dutchy]

Sometimes you go 0-8 against another team' date=' and blow four 6th inning or later leads including a six run one and a walkoff loss.[/quote']

 

Sometimes you lose a series to the Nats... at home! :shock:

 

If he wants to compare embarrassing feats from this year, I'd be glad to considering the Red Sox have been the better team.

[The_Destroyah]

hopefully after tonights performance Beckett can go deep in the game

[Dutchy]

hopefully after tonights performance Beckett can go deep in the game

 

Hit a home run? It's certainly possible, he hit one earlier this year

[The_Destroyah]

Hit a home run? It's certainly possible' date=' he hit one earlier this year [/quote']

 

yeah against the phillies but i meant deep as in late maybe 8 innings or a complete game

[Gom]

Sometimes you go 0-8 against another team' date=' and blow four 6th inning or later leads including a six run one and a walkoff loss.[/quote']

 

Sometimes you do. Except that with your incredible run against us, you're only 2.5 games up...and you know what? If we just split the remaining games against you, we win the division by 5 games.

Have you watched Beckett at all since April? He's pitched better than Sabathia this year.

 

BTW, how's your Fire Girardi campaign going? Any progress yet?

I don't know...

 

CC: 3.55 ERA, 1.09 WHIP 78Ks/109 IP

 

Beckett:3.48 ERA 1.23 WHJP 94Ks/98 IP

 

I don't know...I'd basically call that a wash.

 

By the way...it's Fire Cashman, not Girardi. I actually like Girardi and thinks he does a decent job. He's finally gotten the pitchers in their roles, and he's burned out some of the garbage [Veras, Ramirez, Tomko] and found some reliable arms [Hughes, Aceves, Coke].

 

The emergence of Hughes [pleasant surprise so far, emphasis on "so far"] and the steadiness he's found in Coke and Aceves, this pen is rounding out to be one of the better pens in the game when coupled with Bruney and Mariano...which is pretty much what I thought all along.

 

People kill Girardi, and although I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, the Yankees are no longer playing station-station baseball, and they're not losing a reliever a season to arm troubles like they did under Torre. We'll see I guess.

[Dipre]

Sometimes you do. Except that with your incredible run against us' date=' you're only 2.5 games up...and you know what? If we just split the remaining games against you, we win the division by 5 games.[/quote']

 

 

Wishful thinking, my man.

[Gom]

Wishful thinking' date=' my man.[/quote']

 

Not really. You're 2.5 up after going 8-0 against us. I think we have what...10 games left against you? We're pretty much through half the season.

 

If you take the 8 games out, we're 5 1/2 up. So the assumption is that we'd be up 4 games up overall if the trend continues if we split with you. I was off by a game.

 

I'm not saying that this is a fact...but just showing trends. We're just as capable of beating you in the next 8 as you were in beating us in the first 8.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Ghostbusters II is on.

[Dutchy]

I don't know...

 

CC: 3.55 ERA, 1.09 WHIP 78Ks/109 IP

 

Beckett:3.48 ERA 1.23 WHJP 94Ks/98 IP

 

I don't know...I'd basically call that a wash.

 

You must think that CC's hit or miss then, since that's what you said about Beckett.

 

P.S. - Beckett's been markedly better.

 

Beckett - 3.48 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 2.94 K/BB, .309 BABIP, 69.2% LOB, 3.13 FIP

Sabathia - 3.55 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 2.56 K/BB, .256 BABIP, 70.3% LOB, 3.70 FIP

[Dutchy]

Not really. You're 2.5 up after going 8-0 against us. I think we have what...10 games left against you? We're pretty much through half the season.

 

If you take the 8 games out, we're 5 1/2 up. So the assumption is that we'd be up 4 games up overall if the trend continues if we split with you. I was off by a game.

 

I'm not saying that this is a fact...but just showing trends. We're just as capable of beating you in the next 8 as you were in beating us in the first 8.

 

You're going to have to beat us once before you beat us 10 times buddy. Like it or not, we are ahead in the standings so using them as part of your trash talk isn't very effective.

[Dipre]

Not really. You're 2.5 up after going 8-0 against us. I think we have what...10 games left against you? We're pretty much through half the season.

 

If you take the 8 games out, we're 5 1/2 up. So the assumption is that we'd be up 4 games up overall if the trend continues if we split with you. I was off by a game.

 

I'm not saying that this is a fact...but just showing trends. We're just as capable of beating you in the next 8 as you were in beating us in the first 8.

 

Not with that bullpen of awesome.

[Cocos Disciples]

Ghostbusters II is on.

 

Intriguing. I'll have to rent them both again sometime, I don't really want to watch it on TV. Has anyone played the game?

[WhiskeyBreath]

Intriguing. I'll have to rent them both again sometime' date=' I don't really want to watch it on TV. Has anyone played the game?[/quote']

 

Yeah, a long ass time ago. I never understood what to do tho.

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah' date=' a long ass time ago. I never understood what to do tho.[/quote']

 

Didn't it just come out?

[Gom]

You must think that CC's hit or miss then, since that's what you said about Beckett.

 

P.S. - Beckett's been markedly better.

 

Beckett - 3.48 ERA, 1.23 WHIP, 2.94 K/BB, .309 BABIP, 69.2% LOB, 3.13 FIP

Sabathia - 3.55 ERA, 1.09 WHIP, 2.56 K/BB, .256 BABIP, 70.3% LOB, 3.70 FIP

 

I never said anything about CC...but yes, he's been hit or miss this year as well.

 

If you calculate park factors...the gap shrinks.

 

I have no desire to debate this further...I'm saying that this season, they've been pretty much a wash. You are entitled to your opinion. If Beckett goes up and gives up 4 runs in 7 innings...his stats are worse. That's how close thy are.

[Dutchy]

I never said anything about CC...but yes, he's been hit or miss this year as well.

 

If you calculate park factors...the gap shrinks.

 

I have no desire to debate this further...I'm saying that this season, they've been pretty much a wash. You are entitled to your opinion. If Beckett goes up and gives up 4 runs in 7 innings...his stats are worse. That's how close thy are.

 

You want to calculate park factors? Beckett's still clearly better with a 133 ERA+ compared to Sabathia's 123. I'm sure you don't have a desire to debate this because the numbers clearly show Beckett's been better, and the more you examine them, the better Beckett looks. The only thing that is close between their two is their non-park adjusted, non-defense adjusted ERA. Sabathia's been extremely lucky in that he's pitched to a mid .200's BABIP and he's had a lot of defensive help. His ERA will likely start to climb as those things even out.

 

With Beckett's it's been the opposite. He's been unlucky on balls put into play and he's had very poor fielding behind him. If you adjust for those factors, his FIP shows that he'd have an ERA in the low 3's.

[Gom]

Not to mention WHIP, in which Sabathia has an edge.

 

Sabathia pitches in a bandbox in Yankee Stadium. Fenway is a hitters park, but not like Coors East. I don't put much stock in FIP, I don't like the formula much, and neither with BABIP. I think the theory is flawed.

 

That being said, you've made a strong point defending your opinion. I just don't see much of a difference between the two because the calculations I use show a wash.

 

By the end of the year, they'll finish withing 15 points of each other in ERA, WHIP will be within .10. They are both aces with dominant stuff, and will finish close..and are close. My opinion, again.

[Dutchy]

Not to mention WHIP, in which Sabathia has an edge.

 

Sabathia pitches in a bandbox in Yankee Stadium. Fenway is a hitters park, but not like Coors East. I don't put much stock in FIP, I don't like the formula much, and neither with BABIP. I think the theory is flawed.

 

That being said, you've made a strong point defending your opinion. I just don't see much of a difference between the two because the calculations I use show a wash.

 

By the end of the year, they'll finish withing 15 points of each other in ERA, WHIP will be within .10. They are both aces with dominant stuff, and will finish close..and are close. My opinion, again.

 

Sabathia only has a better WHIP because he has a completely unsustainable .256 BABIP, about .040 points below his career average. And you're grossly overexaggerating the difference between Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. Yankee Stadium gives up a lot of home runs to lefthanded hitters, but when it comes to run it has a factor of 1.14 and Fenway has a factor of 1.03.

 

If you want to go by ERA and WHIP though, then why might as well start using wins to compare them as well.

[a700hitter]

Gom can throw out all the statistics he wants, but they don't matter in a head to head show down, because the Sox have the mental edge... big time. The Yankees haven't beat the Sox in 8 tries, and more than that, they don't think they can beat them. They have a big mental hurdle to jump before they can compete head to head with the Sox.

[MANNYHOF24]

I never said anything about CC...but yes, he's been hit or miss this year as well.

 

If you calculate park factors...the gap shrinks.

 

I have no desire to debate this further...I'm saying that this season, they've been pretty much a wash. You are entitled to your opinion. If Beckett goes up and gives up 4 runs in 7 innings...his stats are worse. That's how close thy are.

 

Beckett might be the best pitcher in baseball since the start of May. He has been DOMINATE ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE.

[Mr Crunchy]

He best be dominant today as our bullpen shat itself into dehydration last night.

Thank Christ I missed the end.

Im loading up on Beckett this afternoon, hes cheap at 140.00 and the O's will be exhausted after running the bases so much after the rain.

[VA Sox Fan]

1:35pm start time today, who is starting today's game thread? GO BECKETT!

 

I'm out of town Thur-Sun and will be unable, drunk, on the beach, drinking, eating, on the beach, drinking, drunk.....you get the point.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I wish she could have seen this game.

 

Pathetic, but I guess these things happen even to the 'Best Bullpen in Baseball' ™

 

Win today.

[VA Sox Fan]

I wish she could have seen this game.

 

Pathetic, but I guess these things happen even to the 'Best Bullpen in Baseball' ™

 

Win today.

 

 

You never would have heard the end of it.

[italstallianion]

Winning will be the easiest way to forget about that nightmare.

[VA Sox Fan]

Posted by Adam Kilgore, Globe Staff July 1, 2009 10:34 AM

 

On the morning after last night's Krakatoan meltdown, a popular topic, one brought up in an earlier post, is how the Sox rebound from such a devastating loss. After thinking about it, the craziness of how stunning it was may help the recovery. It's one thing when you play a crisp game and the closer blows a two-run lead. But when there's a torrential rain storm and then your bullpen, previously the best in baseball, allows the biggest comeback in the other team's history, don't you pretty much have to throw up your hands and figure you got caught up in the madhouse that so often is baseball?

 

Maybe this will be an easier game to move on from than a typical gut-wrencher. We'll see. It helps that the pitching matchup today is Josh Beckett vs. Brad Bergersen.

 

Some more slices of just how weird that game was:

 

-The Red Sox bullpen – Justin Masterson, Manny Delcarmen, Hideki Okajima, Takashi Saito, and Jonathan Papelbon – allowed 13 hits in two innings. In its previous 18 1/3 innings, the bullpen had allowed 12 hits.

 

-Before last night, the Sox were 5-0 this season against the Orioles and 54-23 since 2005. In their first two innings against one another, the O’s outscored the Sox 7-4. In their last three, the O’s outscored the Sox 10-0. In the 49 innings in between, the Sox outscored Baltimore 40-8.

 

-The bullpen’s ERA jumped from 2.89 to 3.24 – a full quarter of a run. If you’re using ERA as a metric, you can no longer call the Red Sox bullpen the best in the league. That honor now belongs to the Tampa Bays Rays, at 3.19.

[BoSox21]

im far more encouraged about Smoltz's performance than I am discouraged about the bullpen's

[VA Sox Fan]

im far more encouraged about Smoltz's performance than I am discouraged about the bullpen's

 

Me too. But suck seems infectious in the BP sometimes, when one sucks, they can all suck. Last night was a prime example of that.

 

Win today.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

lol @ anyone mad about June 30th loss against a team we regularly destroy

 

 

lol @ anyone mad about Gom's presence