Baseball America's Top 100 Prospects

[BSN07]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2009/267698.html

 

 

Sox Highest Prospect is Lars Anderson at #17.

 

Also making the top 100 from the Sox, are Bowden(83), and Bard(98).

 

 

Yankees Making the list, Austin Jackson(36), Jesus Montero(38), Andrew Brackman(92).

[diony]

Bowden at 83, seems kinda low. Bard at 98 is okay.

[PATS12RULE]

PECOTA loves Matt Wieters: 105/31/102 and .311/.395/.544. They project him to have the 3rd highest WARP and 7th highest VORP of all hitters.

[BoSox21]

Wow, I knew Wieters was good, but I didn't think he'd get ranked over Price

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2009/267698.html

 

 

Sox Highest Prospect is Lars Anderson at #17.

 

Also making the top 100 from the Sox, are Bowden(83), and Bard(98).

 

 

Yankees Making the list, Austin Jackson(36), Jesus Montero(38), Andrew Brackman(92).

 

Not bad IMO. I know relievers dont typically get their due, so I understand Melancon not being on the list. That being said, how did Bard make the list? I get the idea of the 98mph fastball, but Melancon's got the better secondary stuff, movement and location.

[BoSox21]

Not bad IMO. I know relievers dont typically get their due' date=' so I understand Melancon not being on the list. That being said, how did Bard make the list? I get the idea of the 98mph fastball, but Melancon's got the better secondary stuff, movement and location.[/quote']

 

Apparently not in the eyes of impartial baseball fans

[Cocos Disciples]

PECOTA loves Matt Wieters: 105/31/102 and .311/.395/.544. They project him to have the 3rd highest WARP and 7th highest VORP of all hitters.

 

Yeah, they really went high risk with Wieters. I doubt he even starts the year in the majors, but when he gets called up (I'd say mid-May once they realize Gregg Zaun sucks), he'll rake.

[Keeper]

Cubs picked Vitters over Wieters. Could be kicking themselves in a few years. Then again, they have Soto.

[BSN07]

Cubs picked Vitters over Wieters. Could be kicking themselves in a few years. Then again' date=' they have Soto.[/quote']

 

I think Chicago is fine with Sotto.

[BoSox21]

Plus the guy has only played 61 games at AA. He looks about as good as you can look as a prospect but I'd like to see a bit more of him

[kreinbihl34]

Not bad IMO. I know relievers dont typically get their due' date=' so I understand Melancon not being on the list. That being said, how did Bard make the list? I get the idea of the 98mph fastball, but Melancon's got the better secondary stuff, movement and location.[/quote']

 

Maybe it's because in one year he dropped his BB/9 down 6 (From 9BB/9 to 3BB/9). He's going to be a great power arm. If when or if develops one or even two plus secondary pitchers, he's our Joba.

[Cocos Disciples]

Plus the guy has only played 61 games at AA. He looks about as good as you can look as a prospect but I'd like to see a bit more of him

 

Which is why he'll probably open in AAA. If he dominates like they expect him to, he'll be up in no time.

[diony]

Maybe it's because in one year he dropped his BB/9 down 6 (From 9BB/9 to 3BB/9). He's going to be a great power arm. If when or if develops one or even two plus secondary pitchers' date=' [b']he's our Joba[/b].

 

Ehh no.

[BoSox21]

Let's see if Bard can continue to improve his control first before we start with any comparisons

[Dipre]

And Joba isn't a fair comparison anyway since he can start or relieve, whereas Bard can only pitch in relief, he lacks the stamina and secondary stuff to be a starting pitcher.

[BoSox21]

I think the comparison to Joba was in terms of stuff rather than versatility

[jacksonianmarch]

Joba isnt a fair comparison because its wrong. They have 2 things in common, right handed pitcher and velocity. Thats it. Joba can start or relieve, Bard can only relieve. Joba has 2 plus secondary pitches. Bard has 1 MLB average secondary pitch. Joba has control of all of his pitches. Bard has control enough to get it in the range of the plate. Bard is a project who still has a long way to go in developing his breaking ball and his command, although he took a giant leap forward last yr. Joba is essentially a finished product who just needs to stay healthy

[italstallianion]

I also doubt that Bard is as injury prone as Joba. I think Bard can also handle his booze better...haha. Comparisons go both ways you know...not surprised that you conveniently forgot that...

[kreinbihl34]

I compared Bard to Joba for a couple of reasons. Bard is still a question mark, but so was Joba when he came out of the draft. Both have electric stuff, maybe Bard doesn't have the same number of plus pitches, but he also has alot of time to spend in the minors. Also add for my own personal opinion that Joba will soon be back to the bullpen.

 

With Mo soon to be retiring the Yankees will need someone. I see Joba coming out and requesting to become the next closer. Still the I don't think he can handle the wear and tear with becoming an elite starter or closer, but it's more likely he could achieve the latter.

 

And with the comparison I'm wasn't reaching as in today's terms. Give Bard a couple of seasons and in 2011 we'll see the comparisons coming forth.

[diony]

I compared Bard to Joba for a couple of reasons. Bard is still a question mark, but so was Joba when he came out of the draft. Both have electric stuff, maybe Bard doesn't have the same number of plus pitches, but he also has alot of time to spend in the minors. Also add for my own personal opinion that Joba will soon be back to the bullpen.

 

With Mo soon to be retiring the Yankees will need someone. I see Joba coming out and requesting to become the next closer. Still the I don't think he can handle the wear and tear with becoming an elite starter or closer, but it's more likely he could achieve the latter.

 

And with the comparison I'm wasn't reaching as in today's terms. Give Bard a couple of seasons and in 2011 we'll see the comparisons coming forth.

 

Yeah ok

[kreinbihl34]

Yeah ok

 

What's you deal on this board?

I stated an opinion and yet you retort with idiot comments.

 

At least provide something to the board, because I read it quite often and find you to be a terrible poster. If you can't do this, then just read the comments. It makes zero sense to reply with something like that. Give some facts to support your thoughts or continue with the great ability you have of acting like a kid.

[CrespoBlows]

Yeah ok

 

You can't be over the age of nine.

[italstallianion]

It's funny because when I first joined I thought that many of you guys were adults, anywhere from late 20's to early 40's. Over the past week or so I've learned that many of you frequent posters are teenagers or ower-class college students. (Lower class as in freshman or sophmore)

 

At least you guys are more "acting your age", although occasionally that's precisely the problem...

[diony]

What's you deal on this board?

I stated an opinion and yet you retort with idiot comments.

 

At least provide something to the board, because I read it quite often and find you to be a terrible poster. If you can't do this, then just read the comments. It makes zero sense to reply with something like that. Give some facts to support your thoughts or continue with the great ability you have of acting like a kid.

 

Idiot comments? Comes from a guy that compared Dan Bard with Joba Chamberlain. Jesus, at least use Buchholz. "He's our Joba" because both throw 100 mph, amazing scouting.

 

Joba Chamberlain: A starter with a plus fastball and a plus plus slider. Both grade out near the max on the 20-80 scouts scale. His curveball is considered by some as a plus pitch that grades at 70. Both his slider and curveball are strikeout pitches. His changeup is average, but solid. His ceiling is a #1 starter. He was graded as A+ as a prospect. Above average command and he's already in the big leagues.

 

Daniel Bard: Bard sits at 98 with his fastball. "Average" command (last year). Everything else is developing. Oh and he's a reliever. So that says enough about his ceiling.

 

Joba was drafted in 2006 (Like Bard) and made his MLB debut in August 2007, after annihilating three minor league levels, whiffing 135 batters in 88 innings in his first pro season.

 

In the meantime, Bard had a BB/9 of 9.5 as a 22 year old in A/A+.

 

So your point is that we have to wait until 2011 to see Bard's potential? You realize they have the same age, right? Joba could also improve a little, considering he has 4 MLB pitches NOW. As a starter or reliever, I would take Joba over Bard anytime.

[kreinbihl34]

Idiot comments? Comes from a guy that compared Dan Bard with Joba Chamberlain. Jesus, at least use Buchholz. "He's our Joba" because both throw 100 mph, amazing scouting.

 

Joba Chamberlain: A starter with a plus fastball and a plus plus slider. Both grade out near the max on the 20-80 scouts scale. His curveball is considered by some as a plus pitch that grades at 70. Both his slider and curveball are strikeout pitches. His changeup is average, but solid. His ceiling is a #1 starter. He was graded as A+ as a prospect. Above average command and he's already in the big leagues.

 

Daniel Bard: Bard sits at 98 with his fastball. "Average" command (last year). Everything else is developing. Oh and he's a reliever. So that says enough about his ceiling.

 

Joba was drafted in 2006 (Like Bard) and made his MLB debut in August 2007, after annihilating three minor league levels, whiffing 135 batters in 88 innings in his first pro season.

 

In the meantime, Bard had a BB/9 of 9.5 as a 22 year old in A/A+.

 

So your point is that we have to wait until 2011 to see Bard's potential? You realize they have the same age, right? Joba could also improve a little, considering he has 4 MLB pitches NOW. As a starter or reliever, I would take Joba over Bard anytime.

 

Now see I have no problem with this.

 

I have no trouble waiting for someone to develop when the Red Sox are in the shape they are. He doesn't need to be ready now, he's got plenty of time to grow and then be groomed.

 

The BB/9 point was already made by me and he made huge strides lowing it to somewhere slightly above 3. It's a project, I haven't and won't dispute that. He's got tons of upside for us. I'm sure he'll develop better command and refine a couple of secondary pitches.

 

What I think you're not including in your thoughts is Joba's ability to get hit with the injury bug. They saw this before he was even drafted. He just sounds like the type that needs to make the move to the bullpen to continue being a great player. By me proclaiming he's our Joba I'm making a notion he'll have the tremendous fastball and have nice secondary pitches. Will his secondary pitches ever reach Joba's level? Probably not, but few do. His fastball is what could give him an edge, as the potential to be plus, plus is there.

 

What I'm essentially trying to get across is if we bring him along right, he'll be very similar to a bullpen Joba. That's all.

[jacksonianmarch]

By labelling him "your Joba", you are trying to equate one guy who blew away the minors and another guy who was awful for a yr in the minors. So right there your point takes a bit of a hit.

 

Saying he'll develop better secondary stuff is one thing. Saying he'll develop a slider thats considered an 80 and a curve considered a 70 is unrealistic. Most teams would be happy if he was able to maintain a breaking ball at a 50 with consistent command with that heater he has.

 

So you are equating Bard and Joba because Bard is more durable but a clearly inferior player? Thats like saying Melky and JD Drew are comparable because Melky will at least be on the field for 150 games a yr.

 

If you brought him along right, I think his ceiling is a Kyle Farnsworth type. Good fastball but inconsistent location and secondary pitches that run hot/cold. On days that he's on, nobody touches him. On days that he's off, he walks the park or gets smashed

 

And you are touting his command improvement, which was there. But his 4BB in 28IP at low A for a 23 yr old isnt the biggest achievement. The fact that he jumped from 1.3BB/9IP to 4.7BB/9IP when he made the jump to AA should tell you all you need to know.

[kreinbihl34]

By labelling him "your Joba", you are trying to equate one guy who blew away the minors and another guy who was awful for a yr in the minors. So right there your point takes a bit of a hit.

 

Saying he'll develop better secondary stuff is one thing. Saying he'll develop a slider thats considered an 80 and a curve considered a 70 is unrealistic. Most teams would be happy if he was able to maintain a breaking ball at a 50 with consistent command with that heater he has.

 

So you are equating Bard and Joba because Bard is more durable but a clearly inferior player? Thats like saying Melky and JD Drew are comparable because Melky will at least be on the field for 150 games a yr.

 

If you brought him along right, I think his ceiling is a Kyle Farnsworth type. Good fastball but inconsistent location and secondary pitches that run hot/cold. On days that he's on, nobody touches him. On days that he's off, he walks the park or gets smashed

 

And you are touting his command improvement, which was there. But his 4BB in 28IP at low A for a 23 yr old isnt the biggest achievement. The fact that he jumped from 1.3BB/9IP to 4.7BB/9IP when he made the jump to AA should tell you all you need to know.

 

Farnsworth type? Sox Prospects much?

 

Listen I'll agree right now he isn't much, but IMO this kid has the ability to be a lights out reliever. Just give him a couple of years.

 

Joba will end up with a better career, barring any type of injury. But the JD Drew/Melky comparison is a little much for me.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree that Bard's fastball should get anyone excited. But in order for him to even break into the sox pen, he's gotta get much better. We'll see. He's young and has made significant improvements since his move to the pen. But IMHO, he is not a guy that sox fans are gonna love. After going through 2.5 yrs watching a guy with similar stuff and command dominate and struggle like a manic depressive in our pen, I'd be skeptical. Think about it this way. Hansen was the better pitcher between the two and you saw how that worked out.

[Dipre]

I agree that Bard's fastball should get anyone excited. But in order for him to even break into the sox pen' date=' he's gotta get much better. We'll see. He's young and has made significant improvements since his move to the pen. But IMHO, he is not a guy that sox fans are gonna love. After going through 2.5 yrs watching a guy with similar stuff and command dominate and struggle like a manic depressive in our pen, I'd be skeptical. Think about it this way. Hansen was the better pitcher between the two and you saw how that worked out.[/quote']

 

Hansen was rushed to the majors, he got shelled and lost confidence, it happens to a lot of young guys, getting rushed to the bigs destroys their psyche and they never fulfill their potential, the Sox made that mistake with Hansen. but i fail to see how that is a valid comparison regarding Bard.