ARod tested positive

[Paradisecity]

well, I mean, he lied before, why not lie again?

 

But I agree, at least admitting it is better than denial.

[RedSoxRooter]

He's lying out his ass. Let me ask you this, if he hit 57, 52 and 47 HRs in Texas using the stuff, why would he stop cheating once he got to NY of all places?

 

The guy's been on roids from the moment he came into the league. I mean, he had been putting up huge numbers for 10 year and the very first year they tested him, he failed. He's a lifer and he's not the only one.

[BoSox21]

Good for him, this is absolutely the best way to respond to it

[rician blast]

Cheating' date=' in any form, shouldn't be condoned. It should be condemned. Period.[/quote']

 

But only if you're caught, right? So all the juicers who timed things right or otherwise went (or ARE going) undetected get the glory? The league and the union will obviously have to deal with this in some manner, but the fans can choose how they view the issue for themselves.

 

There'll be many who condemn those caught and who assume those not named are clean. Given the degree of prevalence, I can't get worked up about any individual showing up on a list, cuz for everyone of them there are probably 2 others who've gone unscathed.

 

By the way, if I'm right, there still is no test being used for HGH? I think I've heard that it is two years away. So for the most naive who are going to say from here on "we have a clean slate and gee, we have drug testing now...everyone must be clean, no? " I say:

 

Watch all of these players jump to HGH to "prove" that their accomplishments weren't tainted, to "prove" that they were indeed clean. I wish no one would buy it, but people are much too (1) gullible and (2) forgiving and for some reason holding these guys in their highest esteem, thus not wanting to believe they're cheaters. Wake the f*** up folks. Here's some examples of what I've heard from fans:

 

(1) Gullibility - "Jeter never used, he wouldn't do that. Pujols is a Christian, he'd never use. Griffey is the one clean guy, you can tell cuz he's still kinda skinny." Right, the same sort of s*** people were saying when they claimed ARod was clean....surprise!

 

(2) Forgiving - It's ok, Andy PEDitte, you got caught and fessed up to a couple of times using, then when more evidence came out you fessed a little more, then a little more....you're a lieing sack of s***, but you aplogized, so you are forgiven.

 

Right now Jose Canseco has more credibility than most of these clowns.

[26 to 6]

He's lying out his ass. Let me ask you this, if he hit 57, 52 and 47 HRs in Texas using the stuff, why would he stop cheating once he got to NY of all places?

 

The guy's been on roids from the moment he came into the league. I mean, he had been putting up huge numbers for 10 year and the very first year they tested him, he failed. He's a lifer and he's not the only one.

Wow listen to you. Since he first came into the league huh? Stfu. When eh came to NY in '04 regular testing was implemented for the first time. And if you look at any pictures of him in Texas compared to now he does look smaller. Not much because he's such a strong guy anyway but you can detect the characteristics. si.com has a year by year gallery of A-Rod pictures, go take a look at it. His veins were big and bulging during his Texas years, not so much now. Now like i said, I'm not saying there's no chance he used here; but I do believe him because of the testing being implemented, the pysical appearance, and the fact that he wasn't exposed to the culture of steroids here in NY in 2004 that he was in Texas. Look at the guys on those teams. He was obviously being influenced in some way. Not that that justifies what he did, but he didn't even know what substances he was taking, just that they were illegal. He says "honestly i couldn't tell you what I tested positive for." I believe him. When you have guys like Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Pudge, etc., etc., etc. in your clubhouse running wild with the s*** and exposing you to ti it's more likely you'll give in. Most of the Yankee's steroid users were gone by the time A-Rod got here, testing was in place, and you saw hsi numbers slightly decline. Plain and simple though, no matter the duration of his use he was WRONG. I don't even think A-Rod needed to use, he's such a great player anyway. Like he said he was "stupid." And he'll be judged for this mistake for the rest of his career.

[rician blast]

WHat a f***ing joke of an interview. He didn't know what he was taking? He only did it because of the pressure in Texas? He stopped (conveniently, eh?) after 2003, the only time he was caught?

 

I smell a big f***ing lie coming out of his purple lips. Nope, I ain't buying it at all.

 

That said, I still understand why guys do it, especially the highest paid guy...but I know he's a f***ing liar.

[Keeper]

But only if you're caught, right? So all the juicers who timed things right or otherwise went (or ARE going) undetected get the glory?

 

Right now Jose Canseco has more credibility than most of these clowns.

 

Not what I said. Everyone who used should be condemned. If you used and haven't been exposed, count yourself lucky. But you shouldn't get a reprieve.

 

Agreed. Everyone initially laughed at Canseco. Who's laughing now?

[example1]

Disclosure won't allow baseball to start with a clean slate. Disclosure of the other 103 will still leave out a hefty number of individuals who either flew under the radar despite being users or who just happened to cycle off before their test, or guys who simply weren't part of the random selection process (I'm assuming they didn't "survey" EVERY player).

 

You also can't have a clean slate when even now there are players using PEDs...the players and their handlers are getting smarter, there are labs creating new designer steroids, and there is stuff out there that is not on MLB's banned substance list.

 

Frankly I am not at all appalled at ARod's alleged usage. Put yourself in ARod's shoes:

 

Here you are, one of the most naturally gifted players the game has seen, multi-tool player, in a league that increasingly loves the long ball (I'll focus a lot on HRs, just to make a point):

 

In 1991, only 2 players hit 40 HRs, only 12 hit over 30.

In 1992, 2 hit over 40 and only 10 reached 30.

 

In 1993, while you are in the minors, in MLB 5 reached 40 HRs, a total of 22 hit 30+...and that list includes such "powers" as Ron Gant, Phil Plantier, Dean Palmer, Mickey Tettleton, R. Wilkins..and there are hints that some of these guys are using steroids.

 

In 1994, you're still in the minors during this strike shortened season where no one played more than 116 games...25 players were on pace to reach 30+ Hrs, many of them being those rumored to be using PEDs.

 

In 1995 you're almost ready to break in to the league, and here you are, KNOWING that your 10x better than many of MLB's sluggers...you see Albert f***ing Belle slug .690 with 50 HRs, the first 50 HR season in some time, Dante Bichette hits 40, Buhner hits 40, Palmeiro hits 39, 21 guys end up with 30+, christ even John Valentin hits 27, and you hear more whispers of 'roid use.

 

So you break in in 1996, want to make a splash, you've got an ego to start with, maybe you choose to use right away...or maybe your 36 Hrs as a rookie are legit...who knows. What you DO know is that your 36 HRs puts you around 23rd in MLB...23rd! f*** that, I'm not going to be outperformed by guys that can't hold my jock, guys like Ellis Burks, Todd Hundley, Caminiti, Vinnie Castilla, Dean Palmer, Jorge Berroa. Now you're in the bigs and you KNOW what these guys are doing to reach the heights they're reaching...so you consider doing it too.

 

In 1997, still knowing you have more talent than most, you only hit 23 Hrs, .300 Avg, 84 RBI's and you're not about to watch Nomar, or Raul Mondesi, or Chili Fkn Davis, Eric Karros, Matt Williams, Tony Clark, Burks, etc. outhit you. You're gonna get yours.

 

1998 you hit 42, 12th in MLB

1999 you hit 42

2000 you hit 41, but that isn't enoough...so you turn up the juice.

2001 you hit 52, and you're out-homered by Luis Gonzalez? f*** that!

2002 you hit 57

From 2003 to 2008 you go 47, 36, 59, 35, 54, 35.

 

You've got yours and you know that there are only 3 definites in life...death, taxes and steroids work really well.

 

While I'm speculating, it is not hard to imagine this playing out this way for ARod and for many other MLB players. Now, where exactly he started using? We can speculate on that, but I'm pretty sure it was before being caught in 2003.

 

Steroid and PED use in baseball is epidemic and contagious. There's a lot of ego involved and the financial rewards are too huge to forego. I understand why these guys do what they do and since they're not my role models, heroes or friends I don't really give a f***.

 

 

This is a great post. We now Giambi roided in the minors. We know that Bonds was furious with all the attention Mac and Sosa got for their HR pursuits and that (supposedly) led him to start super-roiding. Ego plays a big part of it, but so does our competitive culture, so does the availability of roids, so does the lack of testing, etc.,

 

I guess my sense is that players moving forward who wish to be considered for the HOF or for "all time" records, should have to submit not just to random testing, but to planned, SUPER testing, and should be willing to waive their rights if they don't pass. Yes, there are not tests for everything (HGH) right now, but there will be, and those tests should be able to retroactively test samples (if it is possible). Contracts should be guaranteed only insofar as the player is not on steroids/growth hormone, and they should be able to be voided if something like this comes out, because the Yankees are paying for A-Roid, not A-Rod.

 

A-Rod should have been 'allowed' (for lack of a better term) to meet his potential naturally, not feel forced to improve himself so he could catch up to the Dante Bichettes and Bret Boone's of the world just to prove what a natural talent he is. That's my problem with the "just let them roid, it's entertainment!" crowd. There are plenty of players who are good naturally and have no interest in messing up their bodies with this junk. I don't know who those players are any more, but I have my suspicions.

 

I think we'll see more and more of these guys in the next few years, even with the designer drugs, because the consequence of having the news cycle looking closely at your legacy is a big consequence for people with these egos. I doubt that a guy like Dustin Pedroia would want his skill level questioned when he retires, especially if he's anywhere near a HOF discussion.

 

I realize that my suggestions are improbable, and probably a violation of someone's individual rights, but now is the time for the players association and the players to come out and say "test me with anything, any day, any time. I'm willing to subject myself to daily, hell, hourly testosterone tests and if you find that I've cheated, you can void my contract and I'll pay you back a bunch of money. Keep my samples, test them later. I'm clean and I want to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt."

 

They won't say that, but that's about the level it will need to come to if the fans are going to get to a place where they are trustworthy again.

 

FWIW, I don't believe A-Rod that he only used from 2001 to 2003. The guy hit, what, 57 HR in NY? He happened to be good enough to get a 200m+ contract without any roids, and then decided that he needed to roid to prove to people that he was worth it? C'mon!

[example1]

WHat a f***ing joke of an interview. He didn't know what he was taking? He only did it because of the pressure in Texas? He stopped (conveniently, eh?) after 2003, the only time he was caught?

 

I smell a big f***ing lie coming out of his purple lips. Nope, I ain't buying it at all.

 

That said, I still understand why guys do it, especially the highest paid guy...but I know he's a f***ing liar.

 

I like how hard hitting Gammons was: (paraphrasing):

 

Gammons: So you used from 2001 to 2003 and that was all

A-Rod: that mostly covers it, yeah, that's pretty accurate

Gammons: .... what did you use?

 

Nice follow up Gammons. How about "That's mostly it? Is there anything else you would like to share with the viewers and your fans Alex?"

 

God love Gammons, this isn't the type of interview he dreams about I'm sure, but seriously. What a flat curveball A-Rod threw him and he didn't take advantage of it.

[rician blast]

His veins were big and bulging during his Texas years' date=' not so much now. [/quote']

 

Switched to HGH maybe? Or other substances that have less of a bulking effect? Just a thought. Not every PED has the same effect.

 

I do believe him because of the testing being implemented, the pysical appearance, and the fact that he wasn't exposed to the culture of steroids here in NY in 2004 that he was in Texas.

 

ahem, Sheffield, [cough, cough] Giambi [cough], PEDitte [cough] Clemens...right, no PED culture in the Bronx.

 

He says "honestly i couldn't tell you what I tested positive for." I believe him.

And ARod, a very intelligent man, with very savvy handlers, was banking on exactly that...he sold it, you bought it...kinda knew that would be the case.

 

When you have guys like Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Pudge, etc., etc., etc. in your clubhouse running wild with the s*** and exposing you to ti it's more likely you'll give in.

You HAVE to be kidding? So he "gave in"? Didn't want to to it, but was somehow persuaded to?

 

I don't even think A-Rod needed to use, he's such a great player anyway. Like he said he was "stupid." And he'll be judged for this mistake for the rest of his career.

 

He DID need to use, because he didn't want to be just great...he wanted to be the BEST and keep up with the other PED users. He even said that it was a culture, no? Doesn't that scream of keeping up with the other sluggers?

 

Can't believe anyone buys this ********...which, by the way, he'd never have admitted had not the report been leaked and he'd still be telling you, me and Katie Couric that he never used PEDs. Jeezus krist, open your eyes.

[a700hitter]

Those Texas teams had some group: Juan Gone, Raffy Palmiero, IRod, Ruben Sierra, Caminiti, Velarde.

[Keeper]

Murderers' Row of douchebags.

[RedSoxRooter]

Wow listen to you. Since he first came into the league huh? Stfu. When eh came to NY in '04 regular testing was implemented for the first time. And if you look at any pictures of him in Texas compared to now he does look smaller. Not much because he's such a strong guy anyway but you can detect the characteristics. si.com has a year by year gallery of A-Rod pictures' date=' go take a look at it. His veins were big and bulging during his Texas years, not so much now. Now like i said, I'm not saying there's no chance he used here; but I do believe him because of the testing being implemented, the pysical appearance, and the fact that he wasn't exposed to the culture of steroids here in NY in 2004 that he was in Texas. Look at the guys on those teams. He was obviously being influenced in some way. Not that that justifies what he did, but he didn't even know what substances he was taking, just that they were illegal. He says "honestly i couldn't tell you what I tested positive for." I believe him. When you have guys like Juan Gonzalez, Palmeiro, Pudge, etc., etc., etc. in your clubhouse running wild with the s*** and exposing you to ti it's more likely you'll give in. Most of the Yankee's steroid users were gone by the time A-Rod got here, testing was in place, and you saw hsi numbers slightly decline. Plain and simple though, no matter the duration of his use he was WRONG. I don't even think A-Rod needed to use, he's such a great player anyway. Like he said he was "stupid." And he'll be judged for this mistake for the rest of his career.[/quote']

 

 

I'm just saying, you have to be pretty gullible to believe the guy. He came into the league when there was no testing and steriods were running rampant. You are correct, he hasn't really changed phisically (unlike Bonds) but that doesn't dispute the fact he's always been a monster sized SS from day one. And even though there was a stronger substance policy in the minors, do you think they were testing for the latest steriods in 1992? He's a lifer.

 

I will give him and Boras credit though, it seems this lame excuse will indeed satisfy most people.

[rician blast]

I will give him and Boras credit though, it seems this lame excuse will indeed satisfy most people.

 

Yup, high style points, good content, his delivery was excellent, exept for the part where he stops and puckers his lips over and over...he tried to sell that as his remorse getting to him, but I actually think he simply forgot what he was supposed to say next.

 

I'll have to visit the NY blogs and see if they all buy it or not.

 

Edit: NY Post and Daily news...about 75% negative, 10% who cares and 15% believe him or commend him for "coming clean" and say now we can move forward.

[26 to 6]

Switched to HGH maybe? Or other substances that have less of a bulking effect? Just a thought. Not every PED has the same effect.

Possible

 

ahem, Sheffield, [cough, cough] Giambi [cough], PEDitte [cough] Clemens...right, no PED culture in the Bronx.

Sheffield and Giambi were there, true. Andy and Roger were not when A-Rod came to town.Aand with the testing I doubt either of the 3; Sheff, Giambi, or A-Rod were "juicing." HGH is a possibility, but there's really no way to prove anything.

 

And ARod, a very intelligent man, with very savvy handlers, was banking on exactly that...he sold it, you bought it...kinda knew that would be the case.

What the f*** are you talking about man, I'm just relaying the quotes and putting into perspective the enormous amount of pressure he was under and the exposure he had to it in Texas. Nobody has been harder on A-Rod than me here, NOBODY.

 

You HAVE to be kidding? So he "gave in"? Didn't want to to it, but was somehow persuaded to?

You're stupid if you think most of the users weren't pressured into it over the years. Most of them felt they had to do it so thye could stay afloat in the league. Not that I'm trying to justify their actions, but pressure is a significant contributor to the problem.

[BoSox21]

To me, it doesn't matter whether he lied when he said he "only" used it for three years. He lied to Couric when he said he never used, he got caught and he fessed up. In the court of public opinion, it doesn't matter whether he used for three years or whether he's used from his rookie season up until now.

[rician blast]

What the f*** are you talking about man, I'm just relaying the quotes and putting into perspective the enormous amount of pressure he was under and the exposure he had to it in Texas. Nobody has been harder on A-Rod than me here, NOBODY.

 

I'm talking about the "woe is me" ******** not fooling anyone...so he did it in Texas because of enormous pressure, but NOT in NY where the pressure is 100x that of Texas? Does that make sense? That's what the f*** I am talking about, man.

 

 

You're stupid if you think most of the users weren't pressured into it over the years. Most of them felt they had to do it so thye could stay afloat in the league. Not that I'm trying to justify their actions, but pressure is a significant contributor to the problem.

 

Well first, I'm not stupid, I think that's pretty obvious. Perhaps we're getting caught up here in your definition of "pressured into it." Now I have clearly stated that I believe he did it to keep up with the other juicers, particularly since he wasn't going to let guys like Burks and Bichette and such out-slugg him..similar to what Example 1 stated about Bonds...but your earlier comments seemed to say he "gave in to pressure" as if it were out of his control...he very concsiously made the decision to use. I think we're both in agreement there.

[soxfan17881]

The confession...

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3894963

 

I am glad he went this route, rather than issue some idiotic denial or whatever.

 

I want to see the other 103!

[rician blast]

"Yeah, Ozzie, that s*** does make your nuts shrink like crazy, but if you check really carefully you can still find those little fellas in there somewhere....yeah, there's one now...gotcha little fella"

 

http://www3.allaroundphilly.com/blogs/trentonian/yankeessuck/uploaded_images/arod.bmp-732811.jpg

[TheKilo]

Jose Canseco has said on multiple occasions ARod has used steroids since high school, and he hasn't been wrong on this topic yet.

 

FWIW.

[rician blast]

The confession...

 

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=3894963

 

I am glad he went this route, rather than issue some idiotic denial or whatever.

 

I want to see the other 103!

 

 

I too want to see the other names, it is unfair to expose only one player.

 

Oh, by the way, his admission is sort of an idiotic denial, it takes him 45 seconds to answer the question of whether he used banned substances, and he only says he did AFTER saying:

 

There was tremendous pressure on him (excuse 1)

The culture was different (excuse 2)

He was stupid and naive (excuse 3)

 

I don't like false excuses...man the f*** up, you purple lipped pussy. Admit you did it because everyone else was. Help baseball really "come clean" or at least cleaner.

 

BTW, still I don't blame him for doing it!

 

If a Sox player is named, I hope he has the balls to say Yes I did it, here is what I used, I'm not going to go into the details of when and for how long, it doesn't matter, I did it because I wanted to hit more taters, or recover faster...I too wanted the edge that my opponents and teammates were getting. That's coming clean enough for me.

[Cocos Disciples]

Jose Canseco has said on multiple occasions ARod has used steroids since high school, and he hasn't been wrong on this topic yet.

 

FWIW.

 

Yeah, Canseco may prove to be one of the few honest people regarding steroids when it's all said and done.

[rician blast]

Liek I said, he's got more credibility than most guys right now...he's still a tool, but he's been on the money so far.

[a700hitter]

Liek I said' date=' he's got more credibility than most guys right now...he's still a tool, but he's been on the money so far.[/quote']One other thing about which Canseco was right was that he was blacklisted by MLB. He said that they didn't want him around because they knew he was a mentor to other players in the PED area. This was typical of the small-minded approach that MLB ownership takes to problem. They put their head in the sand and exiled the loose canon, who they feared. If they had met the problem head on back in '99- 2000, they would have prevented the huge stain currently carried by the game and its players.

[italstallianion]

Yeah, although I don't like A-rod, it's not fair to only release his name and protect the other players. I'm bracing for impact for when the list finally does get revealed in case any players I like are on it. So help me god if Ken Griffey Jr. is on it I may not watch baseball again...

[BoSox21]

its still pretty odd to me that out of 104 names on that list, the biggest name is the one that was leaked

[TheKilo]

Speculation on WFAN this afternoon that it could have been Bonds's lawyers who leaked ARod's name, and it makes some sense.

 

ARod is chasing who in the HR chase?

 

Who is the one guy who, deserving or not, has gotten the most negative press when it comes to steroids and probably feels he's gotten an unfair rap?

 

Who's legal team got lots of evidence dismissed from court last week, some of which could be this list of 104 names?

 

Not saying they did it but it could be a place to start.

[jacksonianmarch]

WHat a f***ing joke of an interview. He didn't know what he was taking? He only did it because of the pressure in Texas? He stopped (conveniently, eh?) after 2003, the only time he was caught?

 

I smell a big f***ing lie coming out of his purple lips. Nope, I ain't buying it at all.

 

That said, I still understand why guys do it, especially the highest paid guy...but I know he's a f***ing liar.

 

The jist I got out of the interview was that he knew it was roids, but he didnt know which kind they were. Thats fair. If someone handed me a syringe of winstril I wouldnt know what it was either, and I'm a doctor.

[rician blast]

The jist I got out of the interview was that he knew it was roids' date=' but he didnt know which kind they were. [/quote']

 

And if you believe that then I have a 42 inch cock and I f***ed Mother Theresa with it.

 

I believe he knew precisely what he was taking, I believe he did it before 2001 and I think he continued to use something post 2003. He's very intelligent, very savvy, he's not the kind of guy that would inject anything into his body not having a clue what it was.

 

I was 22 yrs old, finishing college while working in a gym, and I knew what Winstrol, Deca Durabolin, Testosterone Cypionate, Anavar and Dianabol were just by hearing others talk.

 

He was in a big league clubhouse...amid the PED CULTURE that he "gave in to" and he didn't know what was being injected into his own body? And people are buying this line of crap. I don't get it.

[See Red]

And if you believe that then I have a 42 inch cock and I f***ed Mother Theresa with it.

 

I believe he knew precisely what he was taking, I believe he did it before 2001 and I think he continued to use something post 2003. He's very intelligent, very savvy, he's not the kind of guy that would inject anything into his body not having a clue what it was.

 

I was 22 yrs old, finishing college while working in a gym, and I knew what Winstrol, Deca Durabolin, Testosterone Cypionate, Anavar and Dianabol were just by hearing others talk.

 

He was in a big league clubhouse...amid the PED CULTURE that he "gave in to" and he didn't know what was being injected into his own body? And people are buying this line of crap. I don't get it.

 

He admitted to knowingly taking performance enhancing drugs. What does he have to gain by saying he doesn't know exactly what they were when we already know what he tested positive for?

 

edit: That's actually a legitimate question I have.