Sox close to signing Penny

[a700hitter]

There was no reward to Jason Johnson, he was a piece of s***. He always was.

 

 

Penny's a good pitcher when he's right.

But he's at high risk of being a piece of s***, so he is not a low risk move.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

But he's at high risk of being a piece of s***' date=' so he is not a low risk move.[/quote']

If you're committed to him for one season for a minimal amount of money, there's not a whole lot of risk tied to him. Of course he's at risk of not being good, that's why we didn't tie ourselves to him long-term.

[example1]

Jesus Christ you're a negative guy a700. Yes, Brad Penny and Jason Johnson are indistinguishable. The Sox are blind and you are extremely prescient.

 

Does anyone else remember when Jason Johnson finished 3rd for the Cy Young two years ago? Jason Johnson was AWESOME when he started the 2006 All Star game for the NL, remember that? I remember how dominant Johnson was when he pitched in the 2007 all star game too.

 

They're basically the same.

 

method:

 

Find potential high reward move by Sox

 

Find obvious failed low reward move by Sox

 

Conflate the two in an obviously weak way

 

 

700, if Penny sucks he probably won't pitch all that long. If he doesn't suck he gets a huge payday next year. He's not Jason Johnson and he's not Josh Beckett. He's a high reward, medium risk pitcher signed for not very much in a contract year. When healthy Penny could hit 96 on the gun and was pretty dominant. Not many #5 starters do that.

[a700hitter]

If you're committed to him for one season for a minimal amount of money' date=' there's not a whole lot of risk tied to him. Of course he's at risk of not being good, that's why we didn't tie ourselves to him long-term.[/quote']Right, he is low cost, but probably a bad baseball move in the short term that will result in fewer wins than if they went in a different direction. It is not a low risk baseball move as he will probably stink, leaving a hole in the rotation that will stress the bullpen and result in lowered performance by the pitching staff. While that may be low cost, it is not a low risk to your baseball club. The FO is selling this low cost mentality to the fans as a low risk concept. It is not low risk to the performance of the team. It is a high risk move. He is damaged goods and probably washed up.

[diony]

Wrong on both counts.

 

 

DipreG, sir, is a good reasonable guy who even has a law degree. So he knows his s***.

 

 

You, on the other hand, are just a retarded troll.

 

Lol @ DR Law Degree.

 

Suck a dick dude, you're an idiot.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Lol @ DR Law Degree.

 

Suck a dick dude, you're an idiot.

http://telepromptedanthems.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/u-mad1.jpg

[Cocos Disciples]

Lol @ DR Law Degree.

 

Suck a dick dude, you're an idiot.

 

Suck an idiot dude, you're a dick.

 

:dunno:

[a700hitter]

Jesus Christ you're a negative guy a700. Yes, Brad Penny and Jason Johnson are indistinguishable. The Sox are blind and you are extremely prescient.

 

Does anyone else remember when Jason Johnson finished 3rd for the Cy Young two years ago? Jason Johnson was AWESOME when he started the 2006 All Star game for the NL, remember that? I remember how dominant Johnson was when he pitched in the 2007 all star game too.

 

They're basically the same.

 

method:

 

Find potential high reward move by Sox

 

Find obvious failed low reward move by Sox

 

Conflate the two in an obviously weak way

 

 

700, if Penny sucks he probably won't pitch all that long. If he doesn't suck he gets a huge payday next year. He's not Jason Johnson and he's not Josh Beckett. He's a high reward, medium risk pitcher signed for not very much in a contract year. When healthy Penny could hit 96 on the gun and was pretty dominant. Not many #5 starters do that.

How about Wade Miller? He's was comparable to Penny. How did that work out? Bartolo Colon? He actually won a Cy Young. Going further back there was Ramon Martinez. Penny is every bit as likely to fail as those others and either rot on the DL or just stink. Penny is not a low risk move. He is a high risk move, because he is a long shot to return to form. The fact that he will not pitch much if he bombs out doesn't make it a low risk move. Who will take his place when he is rotting on the DL... Clay Bucholz who cost the team the AL East Crown in 2008 or David Pauley? I am gagging. By going with Penny who has a high probability of failing, the FO is eschewing other more reliable options who will not be available in May when Penny bombs out. Declining to pursue a reliable option in favor of a pitcher who has a high probability of failing doesn't seem like a low risk baseball move to me. Yes, it is low cost, but not low risk to the objective of winning.

[example1]

You're right a700hitter. It was a stupid move. They should have gone with the sure thing like Ben Sheets or John Smoltz. Or maybe they should have locked themselves into a 4 year deal with Derek Lowe to make him the highest paid player on their team, after he wasn't good enough to be in the playoff rotation during the 04 playoffs.

 

If Lowe were willing to take a hometown discount then perhaps I would think differently, but it sounds like he wants to make s*** load of money and would cost a draft pick--players are trying to hold the Sox hostage to get to play on a contender AND make more money than they're worth, largely because they think that fans like you will raise a ruckus if the Sox don't spend spend spend. I don't think that's going to sway their management.

[TheKilo]

John Smoltz would have been a better deal, IMO.

[a700hitter]

You're right a700hitter. It was a stupid move. They should have gone with the sure thing like Ben Sheets or John Smoltz. Or maybe they should have locked themselves into a 4 year deal with Derek Lowe to make him the highest paid player on their team, after he wasn't good enough to be in the playoff rotation during the 04 playoffs.

 

If Lowe were willing to take a hometown discount then perhaps I would think differently, but it sounds like he wants to make s*** load of money and would cost a draft pick--players are trying to hold the Sox hostage to get to play on a contender AND make more money than they're worth, largely because they think that fans like you will raise a ruckus if the Sox don't spend spend spend. I don't think that's going to sway their management.

There are no other possibilities? If I told you yesterday that the Sox would try to make a move for HanRam, you would have said that I was nuts. Why are you limiting yourself to the three remaining FA's. I'm not, nor should the FO limit themselves to the FA pool. Who is available? I don't know, but I guess if the Marlins will entertain offers about HanRam, anyone is available.

 

Penny is a low cost, high risk move.

[a700hitter]

If Lowe were willing to take a hometown discount then perhaps I would think differently' date=' but it sounds like he wants to make s*** load of money and would cost a draft pick--players are trying to hold the Sox hostage to get to play on a contender AND make more money than they're worth, largely because they think that fans like you will raise a ruckus if the Sox don't spend spend spend. I don't think that's going to sway their management.[/quote']You just create all sorts of scenarios in your head involving the motivations and thoughts of other posters. I don't like relying on damaged pitchers. How do you come to these other conclusions about me thinking the Sox should "spend spend spend"? Did I post that they should have outbid the Yankees for Sabbathia or Burnett? I don't like pitchers with shoulder damage. They are not low risk.

[Cocos Disciples]

John Smoltz would have been a better deal' date=' IMO.[/quote']

 

I asked this earlier, but can anyone confirm/deny that he wouldn't be ready by mid-season? I read it in the 09 Graphical Player but I couldn't find a definite answer anywhere else.

[example1]

John Smoltz would have been a better deal' date=' IMO.[/quote']

 

I actually liked the idea of signing smoltz more than I liked signing Penny too. He's a type B, so the Sox would not have lost any picks while the Braves would have picked one up. Is it bad that I'm still hoping they sign Smoltz? I would think that combined Smoltz and Penny can equal one veteran pitcher who can bring some skill to the Sox.

[example1]

There are no other possibilities? If I told you yesterday that the Sox would try to make a move for HanRam, you would have said that I was nuts. Why are you limiting yourself to the three remaining FA's. I'm not, nor should the FO limit themselves to the FA pool. Who is available? I don't know, but I guess if the Marlins will entertain offers about HanRam, anyone is available.

 

Penny is a low cost, high risk move.

 

I wouldn't have said you were nuts. The move makes a lot of sense. Basically I think that the Sox have one BIG trade acquisition in their arsenal. The combination of Buchholz/Bowden/Ellsbury/Bard/Masterson can net them something very nice indeed (not all of them, mind you, but some combination) and leave them with enough young talent to move forward comfortably.

 

You ask "who is available"? and I think I have the same question. So why assume the Sox can't do anything or haven't looked? Who do you suggest they trade their players for to pitch? I have suggested that they make a big run for Felix Hernandez, and like everyone else we have explored the Peavy rumors. Who do you propose? Until you throw out names I can only go with who we know are available. D-Lowe, Penny, Smoltz, Sheets, etc.,

 

You just create all sorts of scenarios in your head involving the motivations and thoughts of other posters. I don't like relying on damaged pitchers. How do you come to these other conclusions about me thinking the Sox should "spend spend spend"? Did I post that they should have outbid the Yankees for Sabbathia or Burnett? I don't like pitchers with shoulder damage. They are not low risk.

 

 

That's my bad a700. You are upset with them because you don't think they've gotten better. I realize that you don't care as much about the money piece as some other posters here, and I apologize if I put bad words in your mouth.

 

I think that Brad Penny is a risk like Eric Bedard or Jason Schmidt (a few years back) and that he's considerably cheaper. If he pitches well for a contract and pulls it together then great. If not, this is a team that throws Wakefield out there every fifth night and says its okay if he's .500. The offense carries plenty of bad pitching. As long as a bad Penny isn't starting in crucial playoff games I'm fine with it... for now.

[a700hitter]

I actually liked the idea of signing smoltz more than I liked signing Penny too. He's a type B' date=' so the Sox would not have lost any picks while the Braves would have picked one up. Is it bad that I'm still hoping they sign Smoltz? I would think that combined Smoltz and Penny can equal one veteran pitcher who can bring some skill to the Sox.[/quote']Smoltz will not be ready by opening day. One or two setbacks and his season is a washout.

[Gom]

At least he can keep Schilling company.

[Cocos Disciples]

At least he can keep Schilling company.

 

Since they're both pitchers who aren't under contract by the Red Sox?

[mvp 78]

Anyone who isn't all that thrilled with Wake's production needs to understand that Penny doesn't offer anything more than Wake. I don't see much upside with Penny. He's cheap, but Wake's cheaper. I'd rather tie up more salary in a longer term deal with someone that you can expect to be more than a 5th/6th starter. Ugh.

[Cocos Disciples]

Right now both are in the rotation.

[Dipre]

Lol @ DR Law Degree.

 

Suck a dick dude, you're an idiot.

 

Lol @ me being an idiot.

 

At least i have never in this site used the word "hitted"

 

He "hiited"

 

That is as much a tribute to your intelligence (or lack thereof) as to the quality (or lack thereof) of your posts.

 

You, sir, are a douchy troll, and a pretty dumb one at that.

[Fenways Faithful]

im with the FO on this decision with Penny. you guys can bitch and moan all you want but you have no idea what is going on with sheets or penny, and especially the FO. The sox FO has been known for making the decisions that in the long run make everyone who freaked out look stupid. So stop acting like The FO is dumb because we have 2 championships this decade, and came close to two others. also im glad we didnt get teixeira he is just a big a flamer as A-Rod.

[Cocos Disciples]

im with the FO on this decision with Penny. you guys can bitch and moan all you want but you have no idea what is going on with sheets or penny' date=' and especially the FO. The sox FO has been known for making the decisions that in the long run make everyone who freaked out look stupid. So stop acting like The FO is dumb because we have 2 championships this decade, and came close to two others. [b']also im glad we didnt get teixeira he is just a big a flamer as A-Rod.[/b]

 

*Un-reads above post*

[BSN07]

im with the FO on this decision with Penny. you guys can bitch and moan all you want but you have no idea what is going on with sheets or penny' date=' and especially the FO. The sox FO has been known for making the decisions that in the long run make everyone who freaked out look stupid. So stop acting like The FO is dumb because we have 2 championships this decade, and came close to two others. [b']also im glad we didnt get teixeira he is just a big a flamer as A-Rod[/b].

 

 

 

 

 

So is he the Red Sox version of Diony, or is Diony the Yankee version of Fenways Faithful?:dunno:

 

He starts with something reasonable, then takes a big mouth turd...

[a700hitter]

im with the FO on this decision with Penny. you guys can bitch and moan all you want but you have no idea what is going on with sheets or penny' date=' and especially the FO. The sox FO has been known for making the decisions that in the long run make everyone who freaked out look stupid. So stop acting like The FO is dumb because we have 2 championships this decade, and came close to two others. also im glad we didnt get teixeira he is just a big a flamer as A-Rod.[/quote']The 2004 team was built as much by Dan Duquette as the present FO.

[diony]

So is he the Red Sox version of Diony, or is Diony the Yankee version of Fenways Faithful?:dunno:

 

He starts with something reasonable, then takes a big mouth turd...

 

Wow, when did I posted something like that?

[Dojji]

im with the FO on this decision with Penny. you guys can bitch and moan all you want but you have no idea what is going on with sheets or penny' date=' and especially the FO. The sox FO has been known for making the decisions that in the long run make everyone who freaked out look stupid. So stop acting like The FO is dumb because we have 2 championships this decade, and came close to two others. also im glad we didnt get teixeira he is just a big a flamer as A-Rod.[/quote']

 

Don't take this wrong but please, FF.., stop helping.. :dunno:

 

He does kinda sorta maybe just a little have a point on Teixeira. You can cite lack of opportunity, but that "makes the team around him better" thing that some superstars seem to have? There's no particular evidence Teixeira has it. He's been a leader on a lot of talented losers in Texas and while that might be more the fault of screwup GM's than anything else he's actually been on a couple good clubs recently and got them nowhere they haven't been before either.

 

That wouldn't matter in Boston where we pretty much know who the team leaders are, but other than Jeter and Mo I'm not sure how all these Yankees fit together from year to year and sometimes from the sounds of it they aren't either.

[BSN07]

Wow' date=' when did I posted something like that?[/quote']

 

I'm just poking fun. You where the zaniest Yankees poster I could think of off the top of my head:lol:

[jacksonianmarch]

Don't take this wrong but please, FF.., stop helping.. :dunno:

 

He does kinda sorta maybe just a little have a point on Teixeira. You can cite lack of opportunity, but that "makes the team around him better" thing that some superstars seem to have? There's no particular evidence Teixeira has it. He's been a leader on a lot of talented losers in Texas and while that might be more the fault of screwup GM's than anything else he's actually been on a couple good clubs recently and got them nowhere they haven't been before either.

 

That wouldn't matter in Boston where we pretty much know who the team leaders are, but other than Jeter and Mo I'm not sure how all these Yankees fit together from year to year and sometimes from the sounds of it they aren't either.

 

Tex doesnt make the lineup around him better? Here are the MLB ranks for runs scored

 

Texas

2006- 6th in MLB

2005- 3rd in MLB

2004- 4th in MLB

2003- 8th in MLB

 

Then lets look at what he did for Anaheim. Pre-ASB the Angels OPS was .706 (23rd in MLB). Post ASB, their OPS was .793 (6th in MLB). The difference? You get the picture. He didnt win anything in Texas or Atlanta because the pitching on the Rangers and the rest of the team around him in Atlanta were terrible. But the absolute facts are that when Tex is in a lineup, they seem to rise to top 10 MLB material. Add him to the middle of our order with ARod, consider the solid OBP capability of the top of our order and the power of the bottom of our order and we'll see Tex make the guys around him plenty good.

[BoSox21]

Tex doesnt make the lineup around him better? Here are the MLB ranks for runs scored

 

Texas

2006- 6th in MLB

2005- 3rd in MLB

2004- 4th in MLB

2003- 8th in MLB

 

And in 2008, without Tex, they were 1st....