Yankees to make huge offer to Burnett

[TheKilo]

it isnt an argument. Its a fact.

 

Fact - The 2008 Yankees had the highest payroll of any team any team, in history, that did not make the playoffs.

 

The point is I'm not sure what the purpose of bringing that point up was. Enlighten me.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yep, thats a fact too.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

A coup is a highly successful' date=' unexpected, clever act. For the the Yankees to acquire the best two pitchers on the market by throwing gobs of cash at them is neither unexpected nor clever. Find another word.[/quote']

 

A coup doesn't have to be clever or unexpected. It can be, but it's not required. It just has to be a huge notable success.

[jacksonianmarch]

I am hoping the yankees become the world series team with the highest payroll of all time. Cause I really dont care what the payroll is. I just know that it does have some role in determining what the team will become and hence I would minimize it as much as we could. But if you told me the yankees were willing to spend $300 million in salary and would win the WS, I'd say go get em. All that matters is the rings my friend. I've seen 4 in my lifetime. I want to see more.

[jacksonianmarch]

A coup doesn't have to be clever or unexpected. It can be' date=' but it's not required. It just has to be a huge notable success.[/quote']

 

If it wasnt so public, then I'd call it a coup. If the papers thought CC and Burnett were going to Anaheim for instance, and all of a sudden, we see them in front of a yankee press conference, then that's a coup. Johnny Damon signing in NY was a coup. CC not signing in NY would be a coup at this point, IMO.

[TheKilo]

Who did this guy develope? Please help me out here? Jed Lowrie? John Lester? 2 guys in like 5 years? Clay Buccholz looks solid with his robust ERA. Oh i'm sorry Jacoby Ellsbury who can't do s*** offensivly other then run. Who's to stop the Rays and Yankees next year?

 

Dustin Pedroia? Jonathan Papelbon? Lars Anderson?

 

Oh please allow me. Josh Beckett the biggest under achiever in baseball had one big year like his former teammate Burnett then sucked every other year. Maybe Varitek can help out with his 208 BA. Oh BoSox21 your right I figured it out :drum roll: thank you' JULIO LUGO!!! theres the answer!!

 

I'm confused, what are you saying here?

 

How is Theo to blame for Beckett getting hurt? Varitek was under contract, one signed four years ago....you can't knock Theo for Varitek's lack of production unless he re-signs him.

 

Did you have a problem with Varitek in 2005? Hell, even last year?

 

We can't compete with the Yankees hitting wise or the Rays for that matter. Sabattha Wang and Burnett against Beckett Lester and Dice BB. hmmm Advantage NY Garza Sonnanstine Shields own us like slaves. Bullpen maybe we have a edge on NY but not TB we're done 2010 please with Theo on the unemployed line.

 

This is what, 15 usernames now?

[TheKilo]

A coup doesn't have to be clever or unexpected. It can be' date=' but it's not required. It just has to be a huge notable success.[/quote']

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/coup%5B2%5D

 

1 : a brilliant, sudden, and usually highly successful stroke or act

[Sock it to em]

We scored more runs than both teams in 2008' date=' you stupid idiot[/quote']

 

Scoreboard check. Game 7 Rays 3 RedSox 1. Rays offense> Our garbage.

[jacksonianmarch]

enlightening.

[TheKilo]

Scoreboard check. Game 7 Rays 3 RedSox 1. Rays offense> Our garbage.

 

Welcome back,

Your dreams were your ticket out.

 

Welcome back,

To that same old place that you laughed about.

 

Well the names have all changed since you hung around,

But those dreams have remained and they're turned around.

 

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)

Here where we need ya (Here where we need ya)

 

Yeah we tease him a lot cause we've hot him on the spot, welcome back,

Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.

[BoSox21]

Scoreboard check. Game 7 Rays 3 RedSox 1. Rays offense> Our garbage.

 

go back to baking your whites-only pies

[rician blast]

Technically, yes. But who cares. Rician felt it necessary to point it out, so I redirected it right back at him.

 

But for any sox fan to point a finger back our way and say that we are trying to buy a championship, should look in the mirror. The 2 highest payrolls for any championship teams were the Sox in 07 and the Sox in 04.

 

Did I use the phrase "attempting to buy the championship"? Did I say it was wrong to do? No on both accounts...all I said was that THAT sort of spending spree diminishes the accomplishment in my eyes.

 

Let me put it this way. If the Red Sox went out and signed Sabathia, Burnett and Lowe, and then won the WS, it would be a very expected win...in fact to me anything short of the WS championship would be a complete and utter failure. Tell you this, not the I ever gloat about them winning it, but IMO no Sox fan would have the right to gloat...I know some tools would anyway...but there would be no reason to as all they'd have done is meet obvious and attainable expectations. Would I be happy? Sure. But my enthusiasm would be greatly tempered.

 

So that's my point...if the proposed signings did occur I'd expect the Yankees to win it all, and if they did not it would be absolute failure. If they did win? So what, they should have anyway. No sour grapes or anything, just my feeling.

 

As for 2004 and 2007? Although you contend those championships were bought, if it's all about spending $$$ then I guess the Sox beat the odds, considering the Yanks had outspent them and the rest of MLB by $60-$80m.

 

Also, let's remember that that the Sox were 4th in team payroll in 2008, that there were 10 teams that started 2008 with payroll over $100m and that after the Yankees, the next 8 highest payrolls were within $20m of each other (includes Mets, Tigers, Angels, White Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Mariners, Red Sox).

 

The Red Sox are not the only team beyond the Yanks with a large payroll. In fact, if you claim that the Sox bought the title in 2004 and 2007, then it applies, I suppose, that if the Mets or Tigers or Dodgers or Angels had won last year, you'd say they bought the title too?

[ORS]

A coup doesn't have to be clever or unexpected. It can be' date=' but it's not required. It just has to be a huge notable success.[/quote']

This is wrong. Every definition of coup I've seen includes some language about the unexpected, or sudden, nature of the success. Everyone saw the Yankees throwing money around this offseason months ago. He used the word wrong, and you are too in keeping party lines.

[jacksonianmarch]

yeah, wrong word. I admit it.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

If it wasnt so public' date=' then I'd call it a coup. If the papers thought CC and Burnett were going to Anaheim for instance, and all of a sudden, we see them in front of a yankee press conference, then that's a coup. Johnny Damon signing in NY was a coup. CC not signing in NY would be a coup at this point, IMO.[/quote']

 

I disagree. When a coup d'etat takes place, it is sudden and forceful, but not necessarily secret or unexpected.

 

This is wrong. Every definition of coup I've seen includes some language about the unexpected' date=' or sudden, nature of the success. Everyone saw the Yankees throwing money around this offseason months ago. He used the word wrong, and you are too in keeping party lines.[/quote']

 

Ok, well here is one for you then. It's actually one of the first ones I came across:

S: (n) coup (a brilliant and notable success)

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=coup&h=00&j=1#c

[ORS]

I disagree. When a coup d'etat takes place, it is sudden and forceful, but not necessarily secret or unexpected.

 

 

 

Ok, well here is one for you then. It's actually one of the first ones I came across:

 

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=coup&h=00&j=1#c

Ok, so there are two different definitions, which suggests there is some ambiguity in the current meaning of the term. What is your point when Jacko has essentially conceded his understanding of the word's meaning is the one with the sudden component?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Ok' date=' so there are two different definitions, which suggests there is some ambiguity in the current meaning of the term. What is your point when Jacko has essentially conceded his understanding of the word's meaning is the one with the sudden component?[/quote']

 

Since we got into a semantics argument, I just thought I would point out that I disagree with it having to be unexpected. It can still be sudden, and when CC signs with whoever he decides, it will be. If it's with the Yankees, it will not be unexpected.

[Gom]

Kilo...you sound really stupid when you play the payroll card, considering what your team spent $200 million on three free agents in one winter.

 

Then again...I've come to expect this from you. You and Jacko are the same person, just on opposite sides.

[Sock it to em]

Kilo...you sound really stupid when you play the payroll card, considering what your team spent $200 million on three free agents in one winter.

 

Then again...I've come to expect this from you. You and Jacko are the same person, just on opposite sides.

 

He is really skull f***ed. Guy boo's Ortiz then gets on everyone else for being down on the team. I don't know much about Jacko but this guy is the biggest hypocritical Sox fan alive booing Ortiz is like booing god.

[TheKilo]

Kilo...you sound really stupid when you play the payroll card, considering what your team spent $200 million on three free agents in one winter.

 

Then again...I've come to expect this from you. You and Jacko are the same person, just on opposite sides.

 

I didn't bring it up. I've come to expect needless strawmen and stupidity from you, to which I am never disappointed.

 

I'll ask you this - do you feel the Yankees have a significant advantage over the Red Sox when it comes to payroll?

 

Follow up to that is do you believe the Red Sox have a comparable advantage when it comes to the rest of the league?

[TheKilo]

He is really skull f***ed. Guy boo's Ortiz then gets on everyone else for being down on the team. I don't know much about Jacko but this guy is the biggest hypocritical Sox fan alive booing Ortiz is like booing god.

 

So it is you.

 

How long til you'll be banned again?

[Cocos Disciples]

My head just exploded due to overload of stupidity.

[Dipre]

We scored more runs than both teams in 2008' date=' you stupid idiot[/quote']

 

http://www.own3d.at/players/4617/gallery/owned.jpg

 

That's you newbie.

[Dipre]

We can't compete with the Yankees hitting wise or the Rays for that matter.

 

Better late than never.

 

http://love4clab.com/uploads/fail-1_full550.jpg

[Cocos Disciples]

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/terraphon/Fail/success-fail.jpg

[rician blast]

I didn't bring it up. I've come to expect needless strawmen and stupidity from you, to which I am never disappointed.

 

I'll ask you this - do you feel the Yankees have a significant advantage over the Red Sox when it comes to payroll?

 

Follow up to that is do you believe the Red Sox have a comparable advantage when it comes to the rest of the league?

 

To help GOM, let me repost a couple of things here (from my earlier reply to Jacks):

 

- the Sox were 4th in team payroll in 2008

- there were 10 teams that started 2008 with payroll over $100m and after the Yankees, the next 8 highest payrolls were within $20m of each other (includes Mets, Tigers, Angels, White Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Mariners, Red Sox).

 

As I post from time to time, no one claims the Sox don't have significant resources which enable the organization to compete. However, the disparity between the Sox and the other teams with 7 teams within a $20m range is dwarfed by the disparity between the Yankees and everyone else.

[TheKilo]

To help GOM, let me repost a couple of things here (from my earlier reply to Jacks):

 

- the Sox were 4th in team payroll in 2008

- there were 10 teams that started 2008 with payroll over $100m and after the Yankees, the next 8 highest payrolls were within $20m of each other (includes Mets, Tigers, Angels, White Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Mariners, Red Sox).

 

As I post from time to time, no one claims the Sox don't have significant resources which enable the organization to compete. However, the disparity between the Sox and the other teams with 7 teams within a $20m range is dwarfed by the disparity between the Yankees and everyone else.

 

THANK YOU.

[yankee20715]

I'll ask you this - do you feel the Yankees have a significant advantage over the Red Sox when it comes to payroll?

 

Follow up to that is do you believe the Red Sox have a comparable advantage when it comes to the rest of the league?

 

1) George Steinbrenner net worth 1.3 billion dollars (wikipedia)

 

John Henry net worth 840 mill (March 06 Boston Mag), Tom Werner 600 mill (2002 Forbes most recent I could find).

 

SO yes the Boston has the exact same spending power that the Yankees have but I honestly cant imagine Henry and Werner's net wealth remaining stagnant the last few years....

 

2) Nintendo owns Seattle, Liberty Media owns the Braves, and the Tribune company owns the Cubs. Your Steinbrenners or Henrys cant compete with those 3 companies.

[Gom]

I'll ask you this - do you feel the Yankees have a significant advantage over the Red Sox when it comes to payroll?

Yes and no. Yes that they have a significant advantage in current payrolls. No in the fact that the Red Sox choose not to spend more than they do. It's their business model...and last I checked, no team has to follow another's business model.

Follow up to that is do you believe the Red Sox have a comparable advantage when it comes to the rest of the league?

Absolutely. I think you have the Yankees far and away above everyone. Then you have the Red Sox. Followed relatively closely by the Mets, Dodgers, then Cubs. Then...you have everyone else.

 

This if from Forbes Magazine, team valuations.

 

Yankees: 1.3 Billion

Mets: 824 Million

Red Sox: 816 Million

Dodgers: 694 Million

Cubs: 642 Million

Angels: 500 Million

 

So...what do you see there? I am going to make an assumption due to the Red Sox stellar play and a World Series victory in 2007, they have probably leapfrogged the Mets. No matter. I will use the figures listed.

 

The Yankees, when dividing their net worth by the Red Sox net worth you get a value of 1.59. That means in net worth, the Yankees are worth 1.59 times more than the Red Sox.

 

Now...lets compare the Red Sox and the Angels. When doing the same calculation...the Red Sox are worth 1.62 times the Angels.

 

So...do the Yankees have a significant advantage over everyone? Yes. In fact, consider yourselves lucky the Yankees don't spend even MORE than they do. This doesn't even take into account the YES network, which is actually valued to be worth MORE than the Yankees.

 

Lets look at this quote, boys and girls.

 

To help GOM, let me repost a couple of things here (from my earlier reply to Jacks):

 

- the Sox were 4th in team payroll in 2008

- there were 10 teams that started 2008 with payroll over $100m and after the Yankees, the next 8 highest payrolls were within $20m of each other (includes Mets, Tigers, Angels, White Sox, Dodgers, Cubs, Mariners, Red Sox).

 

As I post from time to time, no one claims the Sox don't have significant resources which enable the organization to compete. However, the disparity between the Sox and the other teams with 7 teams within a $20m range is dwarfed by the disparity between the Yankees and everyone else.

 

Wow...look at that. There is a bunching up of 8 teams, after a large difference between the Yankees and the 2nd highest payroll. Does that...does that look like...wait....does that look very similarly to the distribution of net worth? Wow. Amazing what happens when you open your eyes, isn't it? Now..back to the lesson.

 

Do the Red Sox enjoy a similar advantage? Absolutely. Over 25 other teams. So the Red Sox have a greater net worth than 83.3% of all the teams in baseball with a greater disparity than what exists between the Red Sox and the Yankees.

 

Do they choose to utilize it? Yes they do...but not as much as they should. Let's see what happens when Beckett and Youkilis and Pedroia and Paps become eligible. So...when you have a net worth that is that much higher, you have the ABILITY to pay that much money in payroll. Their CHOICE is not to...until they went apeshit and spent 200 million in one off-season for 3 players.

 

You choose to believe your front office's cries of poverty. You're no different than Jacko. You are sheep, being led around by wolves. Your front office tells you something, you believe it. You with your payroll, him with his prospects. Open your eyes. Realize that the disparity that you lament about in payroll is tied to net worth. Can't spend what you don't have. Your Red Sox have the ability. They choose to use it at their discretion. So do the Yankees. I commend the Sox on spending it. Same with the Yankees. The real deplorable thing is the Marlins, and teams that POCKET luxury tax money instead of throwing it in the team.

 

Personally...I see no reason why the Yankees don't go after CC, Burnett, Tex, and Manny. Why not? One season of spending. Nothing really needed after this for 3 years. Better to do it this way, and cost your team only one year of picks, than to do this every year.

 

It's the Red Sox model...borrowed from two years ago. Good plan.

[rician blast]

So...when you have a net worth that is that much higher, you have the ABILITY to pay that much money in payroll.

 

Realize that the disparity that you lament about in payroll is tied to net worth. Can't spend what you don't have.

 

You can spend what you don't have if you borrow...but I get your point. However, I'd argue that net worth is not necesarily a measure of "what you have" to spend.

 

I think one needs to know a lot more about what that net worth value represents, how it's being measured, the organization's capital structure, their ownership structure and commitments to those owners in terms of ROI and especially the annual revenue and expense data before one can blindly say that "Team A is worth more so they have more to spend."