Yankees to make huge offer to Burnett

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/11182008/sports/yankees/yankees_prepare_a_j__offer_139209.htm

 

Hank aint f***ing around. 5yrs 80 mil for Burnett as well? That's 220 mil on 2 pitchers alone. And the yankees are still likely to be offering a big deal to Lowe or retaining Pettitte for the 4 hole. This would be one hell of a coup if we could get CC, Burnett and Lowe/Pettitte to add to a healthy Wang and Joba. That leaves Hughes, Kennedy, and Coke in AAA to gain innings and hone their stuff. This is the best way to go.

[riverside sluggers]

Lets say the Yanks have a rotation of CC, Burnett, Joba, Wang, Lowe

 

Hughes, Kennedy, and Coke would be honing their stuff in New York's Triple A for sometime.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

5 years 80M for a 32 y.o. pitcher who cant stay healthy. awesome.

[TheKilo]

Please oh please let this be true

[jacksonianmarch]

Burnett is not a guy you hang your entire offseason on. He shouldnt be counted upon as an ace by any means and I'd consider it a stretch to count on him as a #2. But if you have CC and Wang in the 1/2 slot and you have a guy like Pettitte or Lowe in the 4 hole, you can afford to gamble on AJ in the 3 hole. AJ isnt as injury prone as people would like to make him out to be. For what its worth, he's only had one big injury that limited him (TJS). He just has shown to be a bit more of a prima donna than a 6'5" pitcher should be. He's been in the bigs full time for 8 season. Of those seasons, he missed one with TJ and came back in the middle of one after recovering from TJ (both seasons under 25 starts). In the other 6 seasons, he's taken the bump 25 times or more 5 times. Meaning that, when he doesnt blow out his UCL in his elbow, he avoids the serious injuries. He just doesnt shake off the minor ones well enough to pitch injured. Kinda like Beckett was prior to coming to Boston. 21, 23, 26, and 29 were the numbers of starts that Beckett made in his first 4 yrs in the bigs. Then he comes to Boston and throws 33, 30, and 27. Its a crap shoot. And I am not for this move unless we get CC and Pettitte (or Lowe) to give us 3 pitchers who will, in all likelihood, surpass 200IP this yr.

[rician blast]

This would be one hell of a coup if we could get CC, Burnett and Lowe

 

Sabathia, Burnett AND Lowe? IF the Yankees do this and don't win it all, it'll be among the biggest failures in team sports history. That kind of spending spree, in my eyes, diminishes the accomplishment a tad, although I understand that a title is a title, and I'm sure the Yank fans wouldn't feel that way.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont care how they do it. The sox bought the 2004 title. We can try and buy the 2009 one.

[BoSox21]

I dont care how they do it. The sox bought the 2004 title. We can try and buy the 2009 one.

 

So Schilling and Foulke are the sole reasons the Sox won in '04?

[jacksonianmarch]

how many home grown players were on the 2004 sox?

[TheKilo]

how many home grown players were on the 2004 sox?

 

loltrollllllllllllll

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

how many home grown players were on the 2004 sox?

 

maybe 2007 is a better example - DiceK, Drew, Lugo, etc.

[BoSox21]

so the general logic is that if the majority team isn't comprised of home grown players, then the championship is bought?

[BoSox21]

maybe 2007 is a better example - DiceK' date=' Drew, Lugo, etc.[/quote']

 

or you could point to the guys who had a significant impact on that championship team...Youkilis, Papelpon, Pedroia, Lester

[jacksonianmarch]

Technically, yes. But who cares. Rician felt it necessary to point it out, so I redirected it right back at him.

 

But for any sox fan to point a finger back our way and say that we are trying to buy a championship, should look in the mirror. The 2 highest payrolls for any championship teams were the Sox in 07 and the Sox in 04.

[Sock it to em]

Yankees are taking advantage of free agentcy nuthin wrong with that. Is there? I wish our owner's gave a s*** about 2009 and start going after some players this is the deepest free agent-pool in ages!! But while we sit on our hands and do nothing cause of this idiot Epstein's pride is retarded what did we win last year????? Thank god they told his ass to take a hike in 2006 the whole 2007 season he mooched off Becketts success and Lowells fluke year. If not for that i'd litterally be even more pissed at this offseason.

[TheKilo]

Technically, yes. But who cares. Rician felt it necessary to point it out, so I redirected it right back at him.

 

But for any sox fan to point a finger back our way and say that we are trying to buy a championship, should look in the mirror. The 2 highest payrolls for any championship teams were the Sox in 07 and the Sox in 04.

 

 

Keep in mind the Yankees significantly outspent the Red Sox in both of those seasons, however...so your little "comeback" doesn't hold water.

 

Yankees are taking advantage of free agentcy nuthin wrong with that. Is there? I wish our owner's gave a s*** about 2009 and start going after some players this is the deepest free agent-pool in ages!! But while we sit on our hands and do nothing cause of this idiot Epstein's pride is retarded what did we win last year????? Thank god they told his ass to take a hike in 2006 the whole 2007 season he mooched off Becketts success and Lowells fluke year. If not for that i'd litterally be even more pissed at this offseason.

 

Sweet first post d00der!

[BoSox21]

Yankees are taking advantage of free agentcy nuthin wrong with that. Is there? I wish our owner's gave a s*** about 2009 and start going after some players this is the deepest free agent-pool in ages!! But while we sit on our hands and do nothing cause of this idiot Epstein's pride is retarded what did we win last year????? Thank god they told his ass to take a hike in 2006 the whole 2007 season he mooched off Becketts success and Lowells fluke year. If not for that i'd litterally be even more pissed at this offseason.

 

How many championships have the Yankees won since they've thrown insane amounts of money into the free agent/trade pool?

 

And how many championships have the Red Sox won since the FO started implementing their plan to make the Red Sox a player development machine?

 

Moral of the story: It's better to be October's winner than December's

[Sock it to em]

Keep in mind the Yankees significantly outspent the Red Sox in both of those seasons, however...so your little "comeback" doesn't hold water.

 

 

 

Sweet first post d00der!

 

I take it you agree. Just taking advantage of a message board to vent while at work sick of Epsteins money ball s*** it doesn't work f*** Sean Casey, f*** Mike Lowell and f*** this thought process that Becketts a ace. Then again there's always Renteria and David Aardsma's of the world out there. f*** him fire Epstein and get Walt Jockety please.

[jacksonianmarch]

The answers...

 

The Yankees really started pumping money into their team in 99 when we got Roger whose contract at that time was a bear. But we really started going insane in early 2001 with Mussina and late 2001 with Giambi.

 

That being said, the sox turned on the player development machine in 2004 or so, but that certainly wasnt the yr that they started reaping the benefits. 2004 was a team of mercenaries who were strong enough to fight for a common goal and dumb enough to drown out the pressure. 2007 was the sox only championship that showed off their player development skills.

[BoSox21]

That being said' date=' the sox turned on the player development machine in 2004 or so, but that certainly wasnt the yr that they started reaping the benefits. 2004 was a team of mercenaries who were strong enough to fight for a common goal and dumb enough to drown out the pressure. 2007 was the sox only championship that showed off their player development skills.[/quote']

 

Yea fine but to imply that the Sox bought the '04 championship is to imply that they took a page out of the Yankees book by throwing insane money at sought-after free agents. The Sox won with guys like Bill Mueller, David Ortiz, Kevin Millar, Mark Bellhorn, Dave Roberts and Orlando Cabrera, guys who were either unheralded or picked off the scrap heap which is just as much of a credit to the FO as winning with their own drafted guys

 

The Yankees can throw all the money they want at the top free agent pitchers but this smells of the Johnson, Wright, Pavano off-season

[Sock it to em]

How many championships have the Yankees won since they've thrown insane amounts of money into the free agent/trade pool?

 

And how many championships have the Red Sox won since the FO started implementing their plan to make the Red Sox a player development machine?

 

Moral of the story: It's better to be October's winner than December's

 

Who did this guy develope? Please help me out here? Jed Lowrie? John Lester? 2 guys in like 5 years? Clay Buccholz looks solid with his robust ERA. Oh i'm sorry Jacoby Ellsbury who can't do s*** offensivly other then run. Who's to stop the Rays and Yankees next year?

 

Oh please allow me. Josh Beckett the biggest under achiever in baseball had one big year like his former teammate Burnett then sucked every other year. Maybe Varitek can help out with his 208 BA. Oh BoSox21 your right I figured it out :drum roll: thank you' JULIO LUGO!!! theres the answer!!

 

We can't compete with the Yankees hitting wise or the Rays for that matter. Sabattha Wang and Burnett against Beckett Lester and Dice BB. hmmm Advantage NY Garza Sonnanstine Shields own us like slaves. Bullpen maybe we have a edge on NY but not TB we're done 2010 please with Theo on the unemployed line.

[BoSox21]

We can't compete with the Yankees hitting wise or the Rays for that matter.

 

We scored more runs than both teams in 2008, you stupid idiot

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees can throw all the money they want at the top free agent pitchers but this smells of the Johnson' date=' Wright, Pavano off-season[/quote']

 

This is just stupid. Just because it didnt work out once does not mean that a different team with a different set of pitchers at a different stage in their careers would result in the same outcome. Too many variables on the last one that I didnt take into account. AL to NL conversions for all of them, and the ace of the staff was 41 when we got him. Plus, Wright was a project who was injured all the time and, well, nobody could have predicted Pavano would have bombed out as badly as he did. That being said, it is a different circumstance this time around.

 

This time around, the bullpen is much better. Meaning, the guys we get dont have to be worked to 120-130 pitches a night, like CC was. It also means that we'll preserve more victories for these players than we would have 4 yrs ago.

 

We also have young players with high upsides sitting in the wings. When we obtained Pavano, Wright, and Johnson, the only guy sitting in the minors was Wang who at the time, wasnt even a sinker baller. This time around, we have a lot of minor league depth. Last yr, we saw a lot of that depth in use way too early by Cashman giving 2 spots to unproven rookies. Now, he gives one spot to a semi-proven kid in Joba and has Hughes, Coke, Aceves, and Kennedy primed for any opening available.

 

Now I wont sit here and make the stupid predictions I made before. Any long term deal for a pitcher is frought with risk. But having the chance to obtain a durable, left handed power pitcher at 28 is a chance we havent had in a long time. I'd take him and Wang as a 1-2 punch that nobody can beat IMO. Move Burnett to 3, Pettitte/Lowe to #4, and Joba as the 5, and you have a deep rotation with guys who have both durability and power as well as a hot shot young kid ready to dominate. Thats a hell of a rotation. And when you consider Hughes in the wings, you have to expect this to be a good yr.

[ORS]

...a coup....

A coup is a highly successful, unexpected, clever act. For the the Yankees to acquire the best two pitchers on the market by throwing gobs of cash at them is neither unexpected nor clever. Find another word.

 

As for them getting Burnett, 5/80 is a lot of juice for a guy who gets his mail forwarded to the training room.

[riverside sluggers]

Jacko you gotta accept the fact that the depth will be definite trade bait if they sign 2 or 3 of those pitchers

 

In terms of Pettitte, his agent doesnt want a pay cut from this past season's $16 million

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

so the general logic is that if the majority team isn't comprised of home grown players' date=' then the championship is bought?[/quote']

 

I think the general logic is that if you commit 200+ million in the offseason and then win the ensuing World Series, you bought a championship.

[jacksonianmarch]

It absolutely would be trade bait and I'd be fine with that if we had the guys at the big league level. Going back to Pettitte, they'll work something out. I have a feeling the Lowe rumors are just there to get Pettitte to agree to a pay cut. It really doesnt make sense to go after Lowe when Pettitte will likely give the same performance for less money and yrs, AND he's proven he can do it here. It'll get done.

[TheKilo]

The answers...

 

The Yankees really started pumping money into their team in 99 when we got Roger whose contract at that time was a bear. But we really started going insane in early 2001 with Mussina and late 2001 with Giambi.

 

That being said, the sox turned on the player development machine in 2004 or so, but that certainly wasnt the yr that they started reaping the benefits. 2004 was a team of mercenaries who were strong enough to fight for a common goal and dumb enough to drown out the pressure. 2007 was the sox only championship that showed off their player development skills.

 

That wasn't your argument, though.

 

"The Red Sox bought a World Series in 2004."

"The 2 highest payrolls for any championship teams were the Sox in 07 and the Sox in 04."

 

In both of those seasons, the Yankees SIGNIFICANTLY outspent the Boston Red Sox. What exactly are you accusing the Red Sox of, exactly?

 

[table]Year|Highest Payroll|Amount|Second Highest Payroll|Amount|% above #2

1996|NYY|$61,511,870|BAL|$55,127,855|11.580%

1997|NYY|$73,389,577|BAL|$64,611,399|13.586%

1998|BAL|$74,170,921|NYY|$73,963,698|0.280%

1999|NYY|$91,990,955|TEX|$80,801,598|13.848%

2000|NYY|$113,365,877|ATL|$95,010,734|19.319%

2001|NYY|$109,791,893|BOS|$109,558,908|0.213%

2002|NYY|$125,928,583|BOS|$108,366,060|16.207%

2003|NYY|$149,710,995|NYM|$116,868,613|28.102%

2004|NYY|$182,835,513|BOS|$125,208,542|46.025%

2005|NYY|$208,306,817|BOS|$123,505,125|68.662%

2006|NYY|$194,663,079|BOS|$120,099,824|62.084%

2007|NYY|$195,229,045|BOS|$143,526,214|36.023%

2008|NYY|$209,081,579|DET|$138,685,197|50.760%[/table]

 

My point is, can you really use an argument that says the Sox had the highest payroll of any WS winner when the Yankees outspent them by 46 and 36%, respectively?

[jacksonianmarch]

it isnt an argument. Its a fact.

[TheKilo]

I take it you agree. Just taking advantage of a message board to vent while at work sick of Epsteins money ball s*** it doesn't work f*** Sean Casey' date=' f*** Mike Lowell and f*** this thought process that Becketts a ace. Then again there's always Renteria and David Aardsma's of the world out there. f*** him fire Epstein and get Walt Jockety please.[/quote']

 

My brain hurts.

 

Form coherent thoughts before posting this drivel, please.