Official 07 offseason thread

[BSN07]

Ok guys lets say meither is an option. Say Arod heads West and The Yanks Give Lowell a Damon type deal(1yr longer) then what the Sox give and he signs.

 

The Marlins have stated MC is on the block. Should the Sox pony up some rpospects to get this big, young RH power bat would coult petentially replace Manny as the RH slugger? Yes hes getting big, but I think we could put him at 1B and be fine. Being around Manny and Papi couldn't hurt him any either.

[jacksonianmarch]

The point is, even if the yankees sign Lowell, the Fish can still say that the yankees are "in the bidding". As I have said before, I dont want Cabrera for his asking price. But if you truly have a bidding war, you guys are gonna have to pony up BIG time just to get into the bidding.

 

Consider this. We know ARod's agent, Bora$, will wait until January to sign a deal. This is what he does. That being said, most teams will try and make a run at Cabrera at the winter meetings, one month prior to ARod's landing. So therefore, every team in need of a slugger, a 3b, or a 1b will be calling. That includes

 

The NYY, who have the young pitching that the Marlins would want and ALSO would have the young impact MLBer that they are looking for in Cano if they really wanted to rape their team. (Just say no to Cano!)

 

The LAA, who have one of the deepest collection of young MLBers and prospects in all of baseball, who have been DYING to get another impact bat to protect Vlade.

 

The dodgers, who have the anemic Nomar playing 3b. And LA has probably the second best collection of young talent in the game second only to the Angels.

 

Texas would most certainly be in the mix and would have a certain top notch catching rookie on the list for deal. (Salty). Not to mention some pretty good arms in the minors.

 

The Tigers would be in the mix. Their 3b is the terrible Brandon Inge and they certainly could upgrade. They have young pitching to spare even after the Renteria deal.

 

The Mets may make a move on him, and even though their farm isnt the best, their top 5 or so prospects are good enough in collection to land a guy like Cabrera.

 

And there are more, but lets stop there. If all of those teams are in the running, and if the Florida GM has any idea what he is doing, he can play them all off each other. Tell the Yankees that the sox are offering so and so, then turn around and lie to the sox. Tell the Angels that the Dodgers are gonna get him if they offer XYZ. And around it will go.

 

To win the bidding war that will ensue for this guy who would fill a major hole on nearly any team, you'd be giving up what you'd have to give up for Santana and then some. Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, Ellsbury. Who knows. Think about it. It aint worth it.

[Beaneater]

This made absolutely zero sense. You want to win' date=' but you want the team purged of all "jerks?"[/quote']

 

Just wondering if you can show me where I said I wanted the team purged of all jerks. Because, like, actually, you know, I never said that. I know that on a 25-man roster there will be some not-that-stellar citizens. Unavoidable.

 

But since you didn't follow me the first time, here it is in a nutshell: for me, if the team achieves a certain Jerk Threshhold, it becomes less fun to root for them. I specifically did NOT say (Kilo's post notwithstanding) that adding A-Rod and/or Bonds would push the Sox over that threshhold. In my mind, the jury is out on A-Rod, but Bonds is absolutely a toolbox. Does that mean I will stop rooting for the Sox if they pick up Bonds? No. Does it mean that it's more fun to root for (as an example) Ellsbury than it is to root for Bonds? Yep. So that factors into my thoughts about whether or not I'd like to see the Sox pick up a player like Bonds.

[zackredsox]

Glavine wants to return home

 

Whattya think guys? I don't think it could happen, especially wth all the young arms coming up...

[Thumper]

Glavine wants to return home

 

Whattya think guys? I don't think it could happen, especially wth all the young arms coming up...

 

No.

[Cocos Disciples]

Don't want him.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather keep Schilling

[BSN07]

No thanks, Glavin is about an 6 ERA guy in the AL East.

[das11209]

Misc. injury reports from rotoworld:

 

David Ortiz is scheduled to undergo arthroscopic surgery to repair his right knee on Tuesday.

 

The surgery will fix a slight tear Ortiz has in the meniscus cartilage. He should only a need a few weeks to recover from the procedure.

 

An MRI Friday revealed that RHP Tim Wakefield has a small tear in his right labrum, but he won't need surgery to repair it.

 

Wakefield, who just had his 2008 club option picked up by the Red Sox, should be able to begin his offseason conditioning program in early December, as scheduled

[das11209]

Rotoworld :

I will do Salty for Ellsbury myself.

 

The Red Sox have inquired about the Rangers' catching situation, according to the Dallas Morning News.

 

Coco Crisp for Gerald Laird would make sense, as would Jacoby Ellsbury for Jarrod Saltalamacchia. It's doubtful the latter has been seriously discussed, but the former might have been. The Red Sox could ask for a little more in return (Engel Beltre, the third player they gave up for Eric Gagne at the deadline, is someone they'd probably like to have back), but it wouldn't be an awful deal as a one-for-one. Laird would serve as Jason Varitek's backup for a year and then become a candidate to start in 2009.

Source: Dallas Morning News

[Thumper]

Rotoworld :

I will do Salty for Ellsbury myself.

 

The Red Sox have inquired about the Rangers' catching situation, according to the Dallas Morning News.

 

Coco Crisp for Gerald Laird would make sense, as would Jacoby Ellsbury for Jarrod Saltalamacchia. It's doubtful the latter has been seriously discussed, but the former might have been. The Red Sox could ask for a little more in return (Engel Beltre, the third player they gave up for Eric Gagne at the deadline, is someone they'd probably like to have back), but it wouldn't be an awful deal as a one-for-one. Laird would serve as Jason Varitek's backup for a year and then become a candidate to start in 2009.

Source: Dallas Morning News

 

If Ellsbury gets traded Theo is officially a retard.

[redsoxrules]

If Ellsbury gets traded Theo is officially a retard.

 

yeah what a f***ing retard , we should just fire him allready 2 WS isnt good enough theo , you suck

[TheKilo]

yeah what a f***ing retard ' date=' we should just fire him allready 2 WS isnt good enough theo , you suck[/quote']

 

Nah, Thumper's right.

 

Ellsbury - Lock for HoF, 3000 hits, and 500 homers.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Nah, Thumper's right.

 

Ellsbury - Lock for HoF, 3000 hits, and 500 homers.

 

Ellsbury - Lock for All Star Team, 1500+ hits, and 100 homers.

 

But, hey, here's a question: who's a better candidate for the HOF, Miggy Cabrera or Jacoby Ellsbury? In my eyes it's Ellsbury, by far: Miggy Cabrera is going to grow his waistline out of MLB by roughly his 30th birthday, and Ellsbury is going to be around MLB for at least 15 more years. If you don't play well through your 30's, your HOF chances are very slim...I don't think that Miggy Cabrera will make it to the HOF without a side trip to gastric bypass on his journey there.

 

*****************************************************************

 

A-Rod? Bonds? I'd take either one at fair value, but if Lowell agrees to anything in the 3/45 range or less I see neither happening.

 

Here's one for everybody: Barry Bonds wants a World Series ring, and his time is growing short to get one. Were you Theo, would you offer him a nominal $5 million contract to be a fifth outfielder? By going with 12 pitchers you'd get four bench players. Would a bench of Crisp/Ellsbury/Kielty (choose one), Cash/Mirabelli/Kottaras (choose one), Alex Cora and Barry Bonds be good enough?

 

I've posted before against Bonds, and I recognize the realities. Three points in his favor:

 

1) Barry Bonds can replace either Manny or Papi offensively in case of injury. No other available veteran can do that...not even A-Rod, IMO, although a case could be made otherwise.

 

2) Barry Bonds can pinch hit effectively--he'd be a lethal weapon on the bench.

 

3) Few cities and teams are bigger than Barry Bonds. Boston and the Red Sox are...unquestionably, they (we) are.

 

From Bonds' perspective, coming to Boston and becoming a team player (or reasonable facsimile thereof) for one year could erase a whole lot of the stigma that's clouded his career. There's potential merit on each side.

 

***

 

Frankly, I see Bonds going to the A's, Padres or New York, not the Red Sox. Still, I wanted to raise the question with a different spin.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/110707dnsporangnotes.2cb3699.html

 

Coco Crisp for Rangers catcher Gerald Laird?

[Thumper]

yeah what a f***ing retard ' date=' we should just fire him allready 2 WS isnt good enough theo , you suck[/quote']

 

Who said anything about another WS win? I like having Ellsbury on the team, he's great definsively, he can hit, and he can run. Theo would be a fool for getting rid of that young talent.

[TheKilo]

Who said anything about another WS win? I like having Ellsbury on the team' date=' he's great definsively, he can hit, and he can run. Theo would be a fool for getting rid of that young talent.[/quote']

 

No, especially if he got better young talent in return.

[TheKilo]

Ellsbury - Lock for All Star Team, 1500+ hits, and 100 homers.

 

But, hey, here's a question: who's a better candidate for the HOF, Miggy Cabrera or Jacoby Ellsbury? In my eyes it's Ellsbury, by far: Miggy Cabrera is going to grow his waistline out of MLB by roughly his 30th birthday, and Ellsbury is going to be around MLB for at least 15 more years. If you don't play well through your 30's, your HOF chances are very slim...I don't think that Miggy Cabrera will make it to the HOF without a side trip to gastric bypass on his journey there.

 

*****************************************************************

 

A-Rod? Bonds? I'd take either one at fair value, but if Lowell agrees to anything in the 3/45 range or less I see neither happening.

 

Here's one for everybody: Barry Bonds wants a World Series ring, and his time is growing short to get one. Were you Theo, would you offer him a nominal $5 million contract to be a fifth outfielder? By going with 12 pitchers you'd get four bench players. Would a bench of Crisp/Ellsbury/Kielty (choose one), Cash/Mirabelli/Kottaras (choose one), Alex Cora and Barry Bonds be good enough?

 

I've posted before against Bonds, and I recognize the realities. Three points in his favor:

 

1) Barry Bonds can replace either Manny or Papi offensively in case of injury. No other available veteran can do that...not even A-Rod, IMO, although a case could be made otherwise.

 

2) Barry Bonds can pinch hit effectively--he'd be a lethal weapon on the bench.

 

3) Few cities and teams are bigger than Barry Bonds. Boston and the Red Sox are...unquestionably, they (we) are.

 

From Bonds' perspective, coming to Boston and becoming a team player (or reasonable facsimile thereof) for one year could erase a whole lot of the stigma that's clouded his career. There's potential merit on each side.

 

***

 

Frankly, I see Bonds going to the A's, Padres or New York, not the Red Sox. Still, I wanted to raise the question with a different spin.

 

It's been an idea that has been thrown around lately. PS I was being sarcastic Re: the Ellsbury thing.

[riverside sluggers]

They dealt Hanley Ramirez (ROY, projecting to be Derek Jeter/Miguel Tejada). That trade brought us ace Josh Beckett (& Mike Lowell) and well he did some great things this past post season.

[TheKilo]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

 

November 7, 2007

Sox to meet with Boras

By Nick Cafardo, Globe Staff

 

ORLANDO -- The much anticipated Red Sox and Scott Boras meeting will take place later tonight at the GM meetings.

 

Theo Epstein acknowledged the meeting this afternoon but warned that while he would listen to talk about You Know Who -- he expected that most of the discussion would be centered around Boras's current Sox clients as well as some of his other free-agent clients.

 

Nevertheless, Alex Rodriguez's name will likely come up, and the former Yankees third baseman would love to play in Boston. The Sox continue to "make progress" on a deal for Mike Lowell, but it does not appear to be imminent, which still gives Boras some hope to plead the A-Rod case to Epstein.

 

There have been several teams who have inquired to Epstein about center fielder Coco Crisp, but no substantative talks have occurred.

[Jayhawk Bill]

PS I was being sarcastic Re: the Ellsbury thing.

 

Yeah, I know...my point was that it's not as unrealistic as most sarcasm. Neither 3,000 hits nor the HOF is out of reach for a player of Ellsbury's talent.

 

Five hundred HR...well, not unless the next generation PEDs are better than the steroids of the '90's.

 

*****************************************************************

 

Coco Crisp for Rangers catcher Gerald Laird?

 

That's 2:1 in favor of Texas, at least by WARP1. Laird's batting in 2007 is reflective of his talent; his batting in 2006 was not. He's a good catcher, but he's a mediocre batter.

 

Saltalamacchia is on the block, too.

 

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/100407dnsporanggmadv.2a2e9cd.html

 

Offer Crisp for Saltalamacchia. Salty is far less polished as a catcher, but he can handle Schilling on a regular basis and other pitchers occasionally to give Tek a break. Tek can catch Wakefield: he doesn't like to, but he can. Kevin Cash can hang out in AAA in case we need him to cover an injury to Tek; Salty could catch 80% of the games, it's just that he can't call games like Tek and he can't catch a knuckleball.

 

What Salty can do is hit: he's projected as a 1B/C, an indictment of his defense but a compliment to his skill as a batter.

 

Coco Crisp is a rare cost-controlled championship-caliber veteran CF. He's worth a lot: I'd ask for a high-upside young catcher with questions, not a known mediocre player.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Crisp for Salty? Surely we'd need to add more.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Crisp for Salty? Surely we'd need to add more.

 

Maybe.

 

Dunno, though. Entering 2007, before Coco's great season in CF and Salty's OK-but-not-stellar rookie season, BP had them pegged as almost equal in five-year value in projected WARP and in potential upside.

 

Look, Salty hit .266/.310/.422 this year and he'll never be a great defensive catcher. Coco hit .268/.330/.382 and he is a great defensive center fielder. Salty is still just a sophomore--Coco is a veteran, a guy who's been even better than he was in 2007.

 

I'd ask for Salty, not Laird, were I dealing with Texas. YMMV.

[CrespoBlows]

Maybe.

 

Dunno, though. Entering 2007, before Coco's great season in CF and Salty's OK-but-not-stellar rookie season, BP had them pegged as almost equal in five-year value in projected WARP and in potential upside.

 

Look, Salty hit .266/.310/.422 this year and he'll never be a great defensive catcher. Coco hit .268/.330/.382 and he is a great defensive center fielder. Salty is still just a sophomore--Coco is a veteran, a guy who's been even better than he was in 2007.

 

I'd ask for Salty, not Laird, were I dealing with Texas. YMMV.

 

Would you do Crisp and Masterson for Salty?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Would you do Crisp and Masterson for Salty?

 

Yes I would.

 

Between Matsuzaka, Beckett, Buchholz, and Lester we are looking at one extra spot in the rotation going forward into the future. Nick Hagadone has looked good and of course we are still working with Michael Bowden. I'm expecting the Red Sox to have another strong draft in 2008 and continue to add pitching. There are going to be plenty of starters available next offseason as well.

 

Catchers are tough to come by, especially with the offensive potential of Salty. He may never become a strong defensive catcher but surely he can make up for that with his power potential.

 

I was reading somewhere that the Red Sox inquired about Andy LaRoche for the Dodgers. That could be another player we could continue to develop under Mike Lowell even though I think LaRoche is ready for the majors right now. So thats another possible option:

 

Coco Crisp for Andy LaRoche? Coco Crisp for Salty?....throw in Masterson if need be to get it done. I'm thinking Theo Epstein will get an excellent return on Crisp due to the amount of interest at the GM meetings. Rightly so, he is incredible on the defensive side of the ball. I still think the Atlanta Braves will be the team we get a deal done with.

[TheKilo]

Would you do Crisp and Masterson for Salty?

 

I'd do that deal yesterday.

[jacksonianmarch]

Salty was a major piece used to acquire Teixeira. I have a hard time believing the Rangers deal him without getting something significant. Coco and Masterson arent nearly enough.

[Soxfan1]

I'd love Salty here. I love that dude.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Salty was a major piece used to acquire Teixeira. I have a hard time believing the Rangers deal him without getting something significant. Coco and Masterson arent nearly enough.

 

You're undervaluing Red Sox talent (not that I'm surprised ). Crisp and Masterson are too much.

 

First, I've already made my case: Crisp ~ Salty. Very good center fielders are very rare commodities--look, Coco cost Boston (indirectly) Edgar Renteria, Kelly Shoppach and cash. The rest of those trades were fungible talent, and Andy Marte was just a means of converting Renteria's value into a form desired by Cleveland. Coco cost Boston a lot. He's coming off a good year--he's worth a lot.

 

The question, then, is whether Masterson is pocket change or a significant trading chip. I submit that he's significant, for these reasons:

 

1) His High-A stats were posted in one of the worst pitchers' ballparks in MiLB. Here are the Park Factors:

 

Lancaster JetHawks H 1.16 2B 1.06 HR 1.84 W 1.08 K 1.01

 

To pull off a decent season pitching there is amazing. Masterson did it, and he did it with lousy defense. Masterson is a sinkerball pitcher on the caliber of Brandon Webb: he allowed only four home runs in almost a hundred IP with Lancaster by avoiding fly balls and line drives. Still, his defense allowed a .317 BABIP when he pitched, increasing hits by maybe 10% over what might be expected for an extreme ground ball pitcher.

 

2) His AA stats are inflated because he hit a wall at roughly 130 IP. Masterson's July OPS allowed at AA was .406; his August OPS allowed was .871. Kids run out of steam, and Masterson projects more as a relief pitcher than a starter: the August stats need to come with an asterisk...even though July and August combined were a 4.34 ERA with a 3.28 K/BB ratio, nothing shabby for a 22-year-old in AA. Notably, 66% of the balls in play against Masterson at AA were ground balls, and a mere 12% were line drives.

 

Entering 2007 BP PECOTA projected Masterson to be more valuable than Buchholz. I'm not sure of that--but I'm very sure that Masterson is a valuable prospect, more valuable than loose change in a transaction.

 

Crisp for Salty? Yeah. A mid-level prospect, too? Maybe. Masterson? No way.

 

Thanks to SoxProspects.com and Minor League Splits for reference material on Masterson:

 

http://www.soxprospects.com/players/masterson-justin.htm

http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/plSearch.cgi

[riverside sluggers]

The Rangers gave up Mark Texeira (young 40 HR slugger, gold glover) and 2 of their best pitching prospects (which they dont have much of) to get their catcher of the future

 

Coco is not a very good center fielder. That is reserved to Ichiro, Hunter, Jones, Beltran, and Ellsbury might be in the category by next season. Yes he has speed and makes unbelievable catches... but over the last 2 seasons he fas failed to hit above .270, has a poor K:BB ratio, 10-15 HR power at best. Tell me, how often is it for a starting player to lose his job to a rookie during the playoffs?

 

To get Salty it would have to take a package like Coco, Masterson and another prospect

 

Coco for Salty straight up? Jon Daniels here is your sign, wear it proud