Wily Mo Pena

[seabeachfred]

You can't blame this whole debacle on Wily Mo Pena as much as some of us want to. The team sucked tonight and Toronto had their best pitcher going for them. Halladay is one helluva hurler. I think, though, that this idea of Taverez as our fifth starter is now a non-starter. There has to be someone else we can use. Maybe bring Hansack up and give him a shot. As for Pena, he now has struck out over half, well over half, of the time he has batted, has muffed balls two games in a row. What the hell is it going to take for the Red Sox to realize that this guy just isn't going to help us at all. My God, what is it going to take before someone in the FO wakes up. If this guy gets enough at bats, say 300 he will probably strike out over half the time. Pathetic.

[seabeachfred]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't get a tad irritated with him tonight.

 

I still have to watch him play more, though.

 

Fred: You said something about WMP being as good as Ortiz...I have never said that. I don't think it's possible for him to be as good as a hitter as Ortiz is, but he can definitely get better. Someone like WMP with all that raw power doesn't come around very often. The ONLY way to see him start to improve is to let him get his playing time and stomach some of his disasters. The good thing about tonight is that it didn't cost us the game. Halladay was auto-freakin-matic after his slow start, and we had no chance. I understand your impatience with him, he doesn't look very good right now, but at least just give the guy some time. He'll continue to work with the hitting coaches, and as he gets more and more at bats he'll have better command of the strike zone. These things are processes, they don't happen overnight, over a week, nor over a month. It'll suck to watch him suck it up out there, but patience is a virtue.

 

If he doesn't show any signs of improvement after a substantial amount of playing time and he's still wailing at terrible pitches, then I'll start to back off. But for now, we all need to be a little bit patient.

 

Schill, I do NOT like to disagree or argue with you because you are one of my three or four best friends on this board, but from what I have seen of this guy last year and this I am afraid that, if anything, he is regressing and regressing badly. You and I both know he cannot field worth a damn in the outfield. We both know he has struck out well over half his plate appearances, and we both know that all the pitchers know that he will chase any breaking ball no matter how outside the pitch is and miss it. Yes, I would love it if you were right and I turned out to be very very wrong, but as this juncture I think you are whistling past the graveyard with this guy. But you're my pal so I will cut you all the slack you want. Just don't count me in the pro Wily Mo parade. I've seen this guy too many times in person to think he is anything but a big blob on our roster.

 

BTW my friend, what the hell is going on with the AL East??? The Red Sox, Orioles and Yankees go down again. Is Toronto and Tampa Bay for real? We could have a real pier six brawl in the division this season.

[riverside sluggers]

Fred, Tampa Bay is just feasting on New York pitching. I dont think they'll stick around for the long haul with their pitching staff

[schillingouttheks]

Schill, I do NOT like to disagree or argue with you because you are one of my three or four best friends on this board, but from what I have seen of this guy last year and this I am afraid that, if anything, he is regressing and regressing badly. You and I both know he cannot field worth a damn in the outfield. We both know he has struck out well over half his plate appearances, and we both know that all the pitchers know that he will chase any breaking ball no matter how outside the pitch is and miss it. Yes, I would love it if you were right and I turned out to be very very wrong, but as this juncture I think you are whistling past the graveyard with this guy. But you're my pal so I will cut you all the slack you want. Just don't count me in the pro Wily Mo parade. I've seen this guy too many times in person to think he is anything but a big blob on our roster.

 

BTW my friend, what the hell is going on with the AL East??? The Red Sox, Orioles and Yankees go down again. Is Toronto and Tampa Bay for real? We could have a real pier six brawl in the division this season.

 

If WMP doesn't pick up his slack soon, I'll start getting angry with him. I will give you this, though: He hasn't done anything to help the Red Sox this year. The only thing that his homerun in Toronto did was light a fire under Coco's ass...I think he felt WMP breathing down his neck. Ever since, Coco's been hot hot hot. It's too bad he went down with an injury. I can't wait to have him back.

 

I'm not blind to the fact that WMP has done pretty much nothing, but I guess I'm just a bit more patient than most people. I still think he has the opportunity to be a solid hitter with tremendous power, but if he doesn't start showing the slightest bit of improvement I'll start ranting about him. Fair enough?

 

And no, I don't think Baltimore nor Tampa Bay are for real. Tampa's lineup is real nice (that's what teams should be afraid of), but their pitching is their downfall. They won't stick around too long. Baltimore's alright...I don't think they'll be worse than last year, but I just can't see them staying this hot throughout the season. I mean, they did get swept by Minnesota to start the year, and they've lost both games to Oakland (both teams have really nice pitching). Sure, they took 2/3 from the Yanks, but they were starting to hurt around that time as well. They feasted on KC, which is more than we can say, but this hot streak won't last long. Toronto's lineup is real, real good when at full strength and their pitching isn't bad, but they didn't upgrade as well as the Sox did this off season. And now, with BJ Ryan gone for what appears to be a long long time (just went on the 60 day DL yesterday), they're relying heavily on Frasor to get the job done. I think Toronto will be lingering around, but they won't make any real impact when all is said and done. They are some damn Red Sox killers, though <_ it come to down yanks and sox as normally does. if the yankees bullpen is burnt out by end of may i expect see run away with division stretch. pitching should get loads better when they have everyone back though lineup just damn nasty. going be a helluva ride once again.>

[TedWilliams101]

My patience for WMP has already expired. I've been watching him for a few years, I watched him play for Cincy before we got him. I always liked the power potential, but after watching him for several years and not seeing a single improvement, I know the guy will never amount to anything. Not only do I not think he has the skills to become consistant at the plate, but I just don't think he will ever work hard enough to become a great hitter. I see his performance this year for what it really is, pitchers understanding that if they throw him any breaking ball, he can't hit it. And guess what, they are proving that he can't hit.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

If WMP doesn't pick up his slack soon, I'll start getting angry with him. I will give you this, though: He hasn't done anything to help the Red Sox this year. The only thing that his homerun in Toronto did was light a fire under Coco's ass...I think he felt WMP breathing down his neck. Ever since, Coco's been hot hot hot. It's too bad he went down with an injury. I can't wait to have him back.

 

I'm not blind to the fact that WMP has done pretty much nothing, but I guess I'm just a bit more patient than most people. I still think he has the opportunity to be a solid hitter with tremendous power, but if he doesn't start showing the slightest bit of improvement I'll start ranting about him. Fair enough?

 

Very well done, Zach.

[pudge]

WMP SUCKS 0-3 3 strikouts and a walk what a scrub

there are a lot of people on this board that where wrong about wily mo that's for sure. hes a complete stiff

[exsubmariner]

NOW' date=' I officially hate WMP. 0-2 with a strike out in todays game, then screws up a routine flyball and causes 3 uneared runs to score. As I have pointed out before, he is a liability on defense, tonight was a painful reminder of that.[/quote']

 

From his first game in Fenway he has been terrible. As bad as he was the last two nights in center, remember he is even worse in right and left (or have you forgotten the ball that became a home run when Foulke was pitching)? Also, don't forget that last year on his rehab they tried to turn him into a first baseman ala boog powell and he was even worse.

 

As for his bat, last year as the teams became aware that he can't lay off of that curve/slider/change up out of the zone that is all he sees when he is behind in the count. The team all says he works hard and is a good person and maybe, maybe he can become a good hitter. He has DH written all over him and if he was on any other team that would be the only way he would get at bats. I say trade or cut him, but please don't put him in the field!!!!

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' Tampa Bay is just feasting on New York pitching. I dont think they'll stick around for the long haul with their pitching staff[/quote']

 

Possibly so Riverside, but it would have done us a lot of good to have won at least one of the two games against Toronto. We didn't hurt ourselves where the Yankees are concerned but we certainly didn't help us either. And Taverez must be taken out of the rotation. It is one thing to pitch well as he did last season with the pressure off and another thing to pitch when we are needing to win games. There must be someone better who can start in the 5th spot until Lester is ready.

[a700hitter]

there are a lot of people on this board that where wrong about wily mo that's for sure. hes a complete stiff

I originally liked the trade, but I changed my mind well before the end of last year. This guy is more than a project. He's a lost cause.

[TedWilliams101]

That trade was pretty aweful. Last season we were desperate for SP and this year we need a 5th starter right now. Insteady of having a CF who strikes out 3 times a game and gives up runs with lack of a glove, we would have a quality starter who could give us good chances of wins until lester can get back. He would also be great insurance if lester gets into trouble or the injury bug arrives. If only we could try and trade WMP back to Cincy for Arroyo. Oh wait, Cincy would laugh in our faces.

[seabeachfred]

You know guys, I would rather be wrong about Pena and see him come back and have a banner season and make me look like a dunce for my diatribes about the guy rather than be on the mark with him. However, this is one time I am convinced that my opinion is a spot-on slam dunk. Anyway, let's take on the Orioles and get back to our winning ways.

[Mr Crunchy]

coulda been arroyo starting last nite at 4.5M per season instead of julian tavarez

wouldnt it be nice to have a legit#5 throwing 200+ innings??

pena eats it

hes not a mlb player,never was and lets face it

he will never be

 

the worst trade since larry andersen for jeff bagwell

[jacksonianmarch]

200IP and a mid 4's ERA? Where do I sign?

[seabeachfred]

I'll keep adding to the cause if this thread topic continues but it looks to me like we now have a majority that see Pena as an albatross around our collective necks. In 2004 he hit 26 homers for the Reds and looked like he was finally on his way. The next year he fell off in most categories and looked helpless in the field. Remember when he came to Fenway for that series and played a fly ball off his head for a homer? Now with all AL pitchers on to him he is going to be a disaster unless we sit him in one deep corner of the bench and keep him there until we can either trade him or release him. Send him to the minors? Oh, Theo is scared shitless that someone might draft him away from us. Ridiculous???? It would be an early Christmas present from where I sit.

[jacksonianmarch]

If someone claims Wily off waivers and manages to sneak him past waivers on an attempt to send him to AAA, then he could rejuvenate his career.

 

I have a proposal for you.

 

What would you say if the Pirates claimed Wily off waivers next week, demoted him to AAA and by the start of next yr he is tearing the cover off the ball. Would you be ripping theo?

[BSN07]

Of course everyone be ripping Theo. Then you would get the people in the argument that would say the NL East is far easier then the AL East.

 

Of course then he would probably regress the following year and everyone would think it was a smart move to waive him.

 

If he did well people would be all pissed we let him go, if he stunk it up and was out of baseball byt the time he turned 28 everyone would rave about how much of a great move it was.

[jacksonianmarch]

right now, he is stalled. And to be honest with you, a kid with his kind of power is rare. But he wont get better in Boston. If he plays, he is playing at a level where his skill set hasnt reached and if he doesnt play, he is getting rusty. He needs to learn a little plate discipline and gather some skills at making solid contact first and going for the homer second. This comes about when he is playing at a level he can dominate, so he can work on one thing at a time. That level is AAA or AA. No the AL East in the thick of a playoff chase every season. The best thing the sox could do for themselves and for WMP is to deal him for some minor league pitching prospects (future relievers preferred) and watch him grow. I have said before that not having Murphy on your team is hurting you because of his perfect fit as a 4th OFer. He has okay contact skills, can hit the homer occasionally, runs like the wind and plays all 3 OF spots very well. WMP is not as good of a 4th OFer and hence it is hurting the sox.

[rician blast]

What would you say if the Pirates claimed Wily off waivers next week' date=' demoted him to AAA and by the start of next yr he is tearing the cover off the ball. Would you be ripping theo?[/quote']

 

First off anyone rips the GM for making a move of a guy who's got ML experience after seeing what the guy does a year down the road is pretty lame, IMO. You judge a move by what you know at the time. Exceptions are where you hold the scouting staff and FO responsible for underestimating a guys potential very early on and then the guy rises dramatically with another organization (i.e. Bagwell was never viewed as good as Scott Cooper which made him expendable).

 

At this time WMP sucks. Perhaps more patience is needed, I don't know. But his resume is pretty ugly at this time. If they waive him and he's grabbed by another team, it just further drives home the point that some of us made over a year ago.....before seeing what WMP did (or didn't do) and before seeing Arroyo perform as one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL...

 

The Arroyo trade sucked. Rip Theo for that, based on what he should've have knows THEN, cuz you don't trade 200 IPs, 15 Wins and 180K's for a 4th OF with "potential".

[adam123]

Hell Ya rician blast ... finally people are comming around

[jacksonianmarch]

I got mail, YAY!!

[ORS]

I got mail' date=' YAY!![/quote']

f***er. I just spit water all over the place.

[jacksonianmarch]

nice.

[TedWilliams101]

WMP 0-4 today with 1BB, 3K. He's now hitting .120 He might be below .100 by the end of the week...

[riverside sluggers]

And that walk he drew, did spark a rally to get them the lead for the game. he did do something productive

[TedWilliams101]

Right... He laid off pitches that were no where near the strike zone. I think anyone in baseball could have gotten a walk there... It was the pitchers mistake that 'sparked' the rally, not anything that WMP did...

[riverside sluggers]

Jeez cant even give the guy credit. Keep in mind those pitches he laid off of were pitches he would also swing at during the game

[ORS]

That's BS. WMP has done nothing this year, but he deserves credit for that. According to you, he can't layoff the breaking ball in the dirt. Well, he did it 3 times that AB. The pitcher didn't f*** up, because that is what you are supposed to do with WMP. WMP showed some patience and earned a walk. Be a man, get over your rant, and give credit where credit is due.

[jacksonianmarch]

WEELYMOO SUXCXKXS AND NUTHHING UYOU SAAYS WEELL ++CHASNGE _+MY_ MYNDDE__+!!!

[TedWilliams101]

wow, he did something just about every major league player, including NL pitchers, do in every atbat... It was one at bat for him... not the norm...