The Official Bash Tito Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

Tuesday night in Toronto in the 7th. Tito lets WMP face a righty (flies out to right on the first pitch) rather than pinch hit Drew. Is he paying attention? Can't Brad Mills shake some sense into him?

 

Having Drew leadoff an inning was a smart move.

[CrespoBlows]

David Ortiz is in the hole, and they sent JD Drew?

[jacksonianmarch]

David Ortiz is in the hole' date=' and they sent JD Drew?[/quote']

 

now that is dumb.

[schillingouttheks]

It was a hit and run, just unlucky.

[MANNYHOF24]

now that is dumb.

 

No it wasnt dumb, if Lugo's frozen rope went down the left field line, then Drew would have scored. It's a play any manager would put on. Like Schill said it was just a very unlucky play. After Chacin left, the Toronto bullpen got lucky, their were a lot of hard hit balls right off guys.

[CrespoBlows]

No it wasnt dumb' date=' if Lugo's frozen rope went down the left field line, then Drew would have scored. It's a play any manager would put on. Like Schill said it was just a very unlucky play. After Chacin left, the Toronto bullpen got lucky, their were a lot of hard hit balls right off guys.[/quote']

 

Look, if the bottom of the lineup were coming up, I'd send the runner, but David Ortiz was on deck. We shouldn't have taken the risk. The worst case scenario is that Drew is on first with one out.

 

If Lugo hit a frozen rope down the line, Drew would be on third, Lugo at second, no outs.

 

The decision was dumb. You don't risk baserunners with your RBI men coming up.

[mosox]

Over the course of a season Tito will prove to be more lucky than good. I just hope he doesn't have to match move for move with Torre this weekend.

[schillingouttheks]

Look, if the bottom of the lineup were coming up, I'd send the runner, but David Ortiz was on deck. We shouldn't have taken the risk. The worst case scenario is that Drew is on first with one out.

 

If Lugo hit a frozen rope down the line, Drew would be on third, Lugo at second, no outs.

 

The decision was dumb. You don't risk baserunners with your RBI men coming up.

 

I agree. I don't necessarily blame him for putting on the hit and run, I can understand it, but with Ortiz and Manny coming up it didn't make much sense.

 

At least putting on the hit and run wasn't as dumb as a straight steal...

[jacksonianmarch]

I would have bunted and forced them to walk Ortiz with Manny on deck. You wanted to have Manny or Ortiz up with the tying run in scoring position. The risk he took was not worth IMO.

[BSN07]

Torre will be asleep by the 6th inning this weekend like normal...

 

Just because Ortiz is on deck doesn't mean you should freeze the runners, you try and make something happen and see how it works out, you cant rely on Ortiz to hit a HR every time he comes up late in a game because its just not going to happen... you have to beable to do other things to produce runs...

[schillingouttheks]

I agree that you have to manufacture runs, but we weren't banking on a homer. If he doesn't send Drew, then he makes it back to first. At worst, we have runner on 1st with 1 down. Then assuming Crisp gets that hit, you have 1st and 2nd with Papi at the plate. They can't put the shift on in that situation, giving Ortiz more of a chance to plate a run. Then Manny comes up...

 

Yeah, a lot of if's, but with the potential of things like that happening, you can't take risks like that. It was in too crucial of a situation to try making something happen.

[ORS]

I don't think it was the wrong move. He sent Drew on a full-count, which reduces the risk of CS because of the chance for a BB. There's only one bad outcome of sending him there, and that is the hot-shot liner right at a fielder. Unfortunately, that happened. Bad luck.

[jacksonianmarch]

I didnt know it was a full count. I agree with you then ORS, it was a smart move.

[seabeachfred]

Torre will be asleep by the 6th inning this weekend like normal...

 

Just because Ortiz is on deck doesn't mean you should freeze the runners, you try and make something happen and see how it works out, you cant rely on Ortiz to hit a HR every time he comes up late in a game because its just not going to happen... you have to beable to do other things to produce runs...

 

Right BoNat. I get frustrated with some of the moves our manager makes but with our hitters being so inconsistent this year it was a way for force the issue. If we had been a run or two ahead we wouldn't have had to do it. Let the hitters start doing their part and we won't have to worry about Francona all that much.

[jacksonianmarch]

Torre will be asleep by the 6th inning this weekend like normal...

 

Just because Ortiz is on deck doesn't mean you should freeze the runners, you try and make something happen and see how it works out, you cant rely on Ortiz to hit a HR every time he comes up late in a game because its just not going to happen... you have to beable to do other things to produce runs...

 

you give him WAY too much credit. The real question is, Is he ever awake?

[CrespoBlows]

I don't think it was the wrong move. He sent Drew on a full-count' date=' which reduces the risk of CS because of the chance for a BB. There's only one bad outcome of sending him there, and that is the hot-shot liner right at a fielder. Unfortunately, that happened. Bad luck.[/quote']

 

He could have struck out.

 

EDIT* Drew would have been thrown out by a large margin.

[TheKilo]

1. Bringing Timlin in for the 345 hitters was inexcusable. He needed to bring in Donnelly or Okajima.

 

2. WMP needed to pinch hit for Cora.

 

Of course, both moves work out for Tito. Luckiest manager ever.

[seabeachfred]

1. Bringing Timlin in for the 345 hitters was inexcusable. He needed to bring in Donnelly or Okajima.

 

2. WMP needed to pinch hit for Cora.

 

Of course, both moves work out for Tito. Luckiest manager ever.

 

Tito did a pretty good job today of running the team from where I sit. The only thing I would have done, and you have to believe me on this, was when he threw that wild pitch to Wells it was time for Francona to come out and get Taverez. Maybe even before he pitched to Wells. First of all, it looked like Julian was starting to lose it and, secondly, I have noticed some in the past that when Taverez throws a wild pitch or hits a batter bad things happen to us.

 

Anyway, a great two wins the past two days. It takes a little sting of that loss on Tuesday when we couldn't give Dice K any run support and we won the game today when Toronto threw their best pitcher. A nice way to enter the Yankee series. Cora, used wisely, is a good reserve player and, well, I might catch hell for this, do any of you notice that when Crisp hits first of second, he seems to do better? Just a thought.

[ORS]

He could have struck out.

 

EDIT* Drew would have been thrown out by a large margin.

He could have, but I feel confident in Lugo's bat handling ability with the hit and run on.

[TheKilo]

Tito did a pretty good job today of running the team from where I sit. The only thing I would have done, and you have to believe me on this, was when he threw that wild pitch to Wells it was time for Francona to come out and get Taverez. Maybe even before he pitched to Wells. First of all, it looked like Julian was starting to lose it and, secondly, I have noticed some in the past that when Taverez throws a wild pitch or hits a batter bad things happen to us.

 

Anyway, a great two wins the past two days. It takes a little sting of that loss on Tuesday when we couldn't give Dice K any run support and we won the game today when Toronto threw their best pitcher. A nice way to enter the Yankee series. Cora, used wisely, is a good reserve player and, well, I might catch hell for this, do any of you notice that when Crisp hits first of second, he seems to do better? Just a thought.

 

Bringing Timlin into that situation was awful. But, Timlin's Tito's security blanket.

 

I hope Crisp can build off of today and have a great weekend.

[MANNYHOF24]

Bringing Timlin into that situation was awful. But, Timlin's Tito's security blanket.

 

I hope Crisp can build off of today and have a great weekend.

 

I don't think brining Timlin in was a horrible idea. At some point the Sox have to see what they have this year with Timlin, and finding out earlier the better. He pitched O.K. today getting out of the jam.

[CrespoBlows]

I don't think brining Timlin in was a horrible idea. At some point the Sox have to see what they have this year with Timlin' date=' and finding out earlier the better. He pitched O.K. today getting out of the jam.[/quote']

 

OK, but do it when the game is out of hand, not in the 9th inning.

[jacksonianmarch]

now the question is, will Tito use Paps 3 days in a row?

[MANNYHOF24]

OK' date=' but do it when the game is out of hand, not in the 9th inning.[/quote']

 

When the game is out of hand it's hard to get a good idea how he is going to react in a pressure situation. I think he pitched fine today. He gave up one hard hit, but then got a ground ball double play to end the inning. I do understand you wanting to bring Donnely in that situation though he was filthy last night.

[MANNYHOF24]

now the question is' date=' will Tito use Paps 3 days in a row?[/quote']

 

It kind of sucks too because Pettitte is your best pitcher and the score is probably going to be low, so its going to be a Papelbon kind of game. You never know what Karstens and Wright are going to give you.

[jacksonianmarch]

It kind of sucks too because Pettitte is your best pitcher and the score is probably going to be low' date=' so its going to be a Papelbon kind of game. You never know what Karstens and Wright are going to give you.[/quote']

 

We wont score a lot on Sunday, I guarantee that. I think tomorrow will be a battle. I think Saturday will be a high scoring game and we are gonna get whitewashed on Sunday. We are terrible against "rookie" pitchers that we havent seen before. But typically, we dominate them the 2nd time around. So, if I was a betting man, I'd bet sunday for the sox HARD.

[CrespoBlows]

When the game is out of hand it's hard to get a good idea how he is going to react in a pressure situation. I think he pitched fine today. He gave up one hard hit' date=' but then got a ground ball double play to end the inning. I do understand you wanting to bring Donnely in that situation though he was filthy last night.[/quote']

 

Yeah, because most major leauge ballplayers meltdown completely in pressure situations, especially 41 year old relief pitchers who were closers for World Series teams.

[jacksonianmarch]

bringing in Donnelly would have been a bad move also. Right now, the only guys I'd have faith in vs the yankees in your middle relief are Okajima and Donnelly. Both will be available for tomorrow and if they were used today, they most likely wouldnt have been.

[Cocos Disciples]

Agreed Jackso. Besides Papelbon, Donnelly and Okajima, we don't have anything. Romero was solid today but I still don't trust him. Timlin is very much over the hill. Snyder was never trustworthy, and he's just a mop up guy anyways. Pineiro sucks.

[MANNYHOF24]

Yeah' date=' because most major leauge ballplayers meltdown completely in pressure situations, especially 41 year old relief pitchers who were closers for World Series teams.[/quote']

 

You know that pitching in a 10-1 game is a whole different ball game than a 3-3 ball game in the 8th inning. Mike Timlin was so bad the second half of last year in those situations, so why is it stupid to want to see how Timlin would pitch in a meaningful situation this season?