The Official Bash Tito Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

I really dont get why so many people are on Francona for using WMP instead of Drew. Lets compare.

 

JD Drew in 176ABs has done this...

AVG/OBP/SLG/OPS

.244/.353/.364/.716

 

WMP in 83 ABs has done this...

.241/.323/.434/.756

 

Hence, they both have the same average, JD reaches base at a little better clip while WMP hits for power well more than JD has thus far. And, the OPS bears it out. There isnt need for a defense when you wish to play someone who has a higher OPS. Does DL Drew have a track record? Absolutely. But at the same time, DL Drew has had some serious injury concerns AND came into this yr already nicked up. This very well could be the decline phase of DL Drew's career, especially if his shoulder is as bad as they said it was in December. Whereas with WMP, who knows.

 

A couple things for the nitwits out there.

 

A: WMP for Arroyo was a stupid trade. Period. I dont think there are many who will pileon about this one.

 

B: What the hell is Francona to do when he has s*** for one option and diarrhea for another?

 

Alright. Now, in the 3 seasons he has gotten over 275ABs, he has put together a composite OPS in the .820 range. That is very, very good. Combine that with him being 25, and you have something working there. Is there a flaw in giving WMP a ton of time? Yes there is. Awful defender and he is also a bit of an injury liability. BUT, when it comes to him or Drew, right now, WMP is the better player. Hell, WMP is sluggin 70 points higher even AFTER Drew had a 2 homer and a double game.

 

So in conclusion, if Drew was kicking ass and Francona was using WMP instead, then that would be stupid. But right now, WMP has actually been the better slugger, and in the 5 hole, OBP isnt the biggest factor attributed to success. You want a guy who can hit the ball a long way to drive in the big boys ahead of him. And right now, that guy is WMP in comparison to Drew.

 

Now dont get me wrong. I am not here to stir the pot on this. I just find it interesting that people look at the salary and figure he has to be the better player. Because right now, the highest paid guy isnt.

 

And one other thing. Drew has the track record, the injuries, and also is much older. WMP has the potential to put it all together one day. This potential should make Francona think about using him more. Because if WMP can put it all together, he might become integral to your plans. Right now he is a spare part. Yet the spare part has been better than glass drew to this point.

[ORS]

Oh, he's been better to this point, but at the same time he hasn't looked excessively better or worse than before. The clamoring for Drew has to do with the fact that, when he's normal, he's better, and it looks like he's pulling out of the mire of a pretty bad slump. And, if it were any other pitcher, I'd agree, he should have played yesterday. But RJ, aged or not, is still hell on lefties.

 

For a comparable situation, consider Abreu. The same argument you made could have been made about him 2 weeks ago. Would you want him to find some pine time after a couple of games that looked like he found his stroke? I didn't think so.

[jacksonianmarch]

Oh, he's been better to this point, but at the same time he hasn't looked excessively better or worse than before. The clamoring for Drew has to do with the fact that, when he's normal, he's better, and it looks like he's pulling out of the mire of a pretty bad slump. And, if it were any other pitcher, I'd agree, he should have played yesterday. But RJ, aged or not, is still hell on lefties.

 

For a comparable situation, consider Abreu. The same argument you made could have been made about him 2 weeks ago. Would you want him to find some pine time after a couple of games that looked like he found his stroke? I didn't think so.

 

touche. But at the same time, our backup OFer was already starting in CF for the injured Damon. If Melky was riding the pine and Abreu had been playing as bad as he did when he hit rock bottom, then I'd probably have clamored for Melkman.

 

BTW, what I find interesting is that the yankees have found their stroke 2 seasons in a row when Melky became a full time player again. Probably coincidence, but I really like the kid.

[redsoxrules]

touche. But at the same time, our backup OFer was already starting in CF for the injured Damon. If Melky was riding the pine and Abreu had been playing as bad as he did when he hit rock bottom, then I'd probably have clamored for Melkman.

 

BTW, what I find interesting is that the yankees have found their stroke 2 seasons in a row when Melky became a full time player again. Probably coincidence, but I really like the kid.

 

LOL .... the yankee found their stroke because they played the crappy white sox and an even worse team the pirates . not cause of melky...lol

[jacksonianmarch]

LOL .... the yankee found their stroke because they played the crappy white sox and an even worse team the pirates . not cause of melky...lol

 

we started hitting against the white sox, which is no small order. They can pitch, they just cannot hit.

[yankees228]

LOL .... the yankee found their stroke because they played the crappy white sox and an even worse team the pirates . not cause of melky...lol

 

Pitchers he's faced in the last week:

Jon Garland

Mark Buerhle

Javier Vazuez

Jose Contreras

Tom Gorzelanny

(among others who are not so good)

[jacksonianmarch]

Maholm is good too. Chacon is garbage.

[redsoxrules]

we started hitting against the white sox' date=' which is no small order. They can pitch, they just cannot hit.[/quote']

 

white sox have a crappy bulpen wich is where NY did most of the damage to them

[redsoxrules]

Maholm is good too. Chacon is garbage.

 

maholm is good WTF . so 2-9 , 5.33ERA .OPP BA 296 is good? thats worse than chacon

[jacksonianmarch]

maholm is good WTF . so 2-9 ' date=' 5.33ERA .OPP BA 296 is good? thats worse than chacon[/quote']

 

Must be going off last yr then (when he had a mediocre yr). He is a promising pitcher nonetheless.

[jacksonianmarch]

12ER in 19.1IP vs Contreras, Buerhle, and Vazquez.

[ORS]

Maholm is good too.

Traditionals: 2-9, 5.33 era

Perphs: 5.21 k/9, 2.78 bb/9, 10.3 h/9, 1.39 hr/9

 

Please stop.

[jacksonianmarch]

Traditionals: 2-9, 5.33 era

Perphs: 5.21 k/9, 2.78 bb/9, 10.3 h/9, 1.39 hr/9

 

Please stop.

 

you missed my post amending that.

[redsoxrules]

in the 3 games that the white sox lost they scored 7 runs ..... yankees were winning that even if Buehrle , contreras and vasqez were on the top of their game

[seabeachfred]

in the 3 games that the white sox lost they scored 7 runs ..... yankees were winning that even if Buehrle ' date=' contreras and vasqez were on the top of their game[/quote']

 

The fact is the Yankees are making a move and trying to whittle away the big lead they spotted the Red Sox with their poor play last month. The question Red Sox fans should be asking themselves is whether Theo is going to try and sit on a lead with bums like Crisp in the lineup, a slumping Lugo at leadoff, having to stomach Mirabelli every fifth game, and, I know this really gets some of you Wakefield lovers upset, a back end of our rotation that is a disaster happening. Now that last statement can be mitigated if our team hits well but we have a couple of guys in our lineup who aren't and I would think Theo knows we have to keep trying to upgrade our team. He plays things pretty close to his vest and never tips what's up his sleeve, but usually there are some rumors floating around concerning player moves. So far not a sniff.

[CrespoBlows]

maholm is good WTF . so 2-9 ' date=' 5.33ERA .OPP BA 296 is good? thats worse than chacon[/quote']

 

The other five?

[TheKilo]

You must understand something Mo. Francona is a very stubborn man who will keep pushing the envelope until he is proven right, or, in most cases, until it completely blows up in his face. That is why he and Theo get along so well. They're two peas in a pod, unwilling to admit mistakes and forever trying to piss into a gale force wind.

 

As most of you know this is only my seventh season as a Red Sox fanatic, but in that time I have had to stomach Jimy Williams, Joe Kerrigan, Grady "f***in" Little, and now Francona. I have also followed the Red Sox goings on for longer than that as a non-fan and one thing has struck me like a blow to the kidneys. Time and again they seem to hire shithole managers who cannot compare to some of the men they go up against. Dick Williams was the last really good manager they hired with maybe Kevin Kennedy adequate. The rest of them are been a pile of s*** for the most part.:thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown :thumbdown

 

You really are an idiot, IMO, if you knock Francona this much.

 

Yes, he can't manage a 'pen (although he's done an excellent job this year) and yes, I take isue with some of his lineups.

 

But to compare him to the other three is ludicrous, especially when you call Kevin Kennedy an adequate manager.

[jacksonianmarch]

in the 3 games that the white sox lost they scored 7 runs ..... yankees were winning that even if Buehrle ' date=' contreras and vasqez were on the top of their game[/quote']

 

but your point was that we werent hitting quality pitchers and I proved you wrong. Keep spinning though.

[seabeachfred]

You really are an idiot, IMO, if you knock Francona this much.

 

Yes, he can't manage a 'pen (although he's done an excellent job this year) and yes, I take isue with some of his lineups.

 

But to compare him to the other three is ludicrous, especially when you call Kevin Kennedy an adequate manager.

 

An idiot Kilo???? Come on, give me a little credit for being a tad smarter than that. You yourself say he can't manage a pen, don't like his lineups. Does that make you a moron? Francona may be better than the other three but not by much. You certainly can't compare him with the likes of Leyland, Piniella or Scioscia, can you???? Watch your answer because the wrong one will put you with me in the 2007 Class of Idiots. Too bad we can't hit and pitch like the idiots of yore did. Anyway, different strokes for different folks.

[TheKilo]

An idiot Kilo???? Come on' date=' give me a little credit for being a tad smarter than that. You yourself say he can't manage a pen, don't like his lineups. Does that make you a moron? Francona may be better than the other three but not by much. You certainly can't compare him with the likes of Leyland, Piniella or Scioscia, can you???? Watch your answer because the wrong one will put you with me in the 2007 Class of Idiots. Too bad we can't hit and pitch like the idiots of yore did. Anyway, different strokes for different folks.[/quote']

 

Leyland? Pinella?

 

You don't think the value Francona brings managing in a big market is worth more?

[redsoxrules]

pinella , how's his chicago cubs doing ?

[seabeachfred]

Leyland? Pinella?

 

You don't think the value Francona brings managing in a big market is worth more?

 

Kilo, if you will take the time to explain that statement of yours to me I promise I will be all ears. Listen, I don't hate Francona; after all he is a Dago like I am, but some of his moves really leave me cold.

[TheKilo]

Kilo' date=' if you will take the time to explain that statement of yours to me I promise I will be all ears. Listen, I don't hate Francona; after all he is a Dago like I am, but some of his moves really leave me cold.[/quote']

 

I firmly believe there is no tougher market to play in than Boston. The way he protects his players from the media and the way he goes to the mat for his guys makes him a really good manager.

 

He's easily the best manager for the Sox in my lifetime, and he's still getting better.

[jacksonianmarch]

I firmly believe there is no tougher market to play in than Boston. The way he protects his players from the media and the way he goes to the mat for his guys makes him a really good manager.

 

He's easily the best manager for the Sox in my lifetime, and he's still getting better.

 

you may be right. I honestly think Boston may be tougher to play in than NY.

[schillingouttheks]

you may be right. I honestly think Boston may be tougher to play in than NY.

 

I think it is too. Think about the lingering pressure despite being a disappointing in the few years pre-2004. And, now that we won it, most Boston fans accept nothing less of the playoffs (much like NY). Take NY's atmosphere now, and add the intensity of that period pre-2004 that I just mentioned.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it is too. Think about the lingering pressure despite being a disappointing in the few years pre-2004. And' date=' now that we won it, most Boston fans accept nothing less of the playoffs (much like NY). Take NY's atmosphere now, and add the intensity of that period pre-2004 that I just mentioned.[/quote']

 

the thing about NY is that if you fail here, you just leave and your name is mildly cursed, but you are soon forgotten. If you fail miserably in Boston, you cannot show your face in new england again.

[schillingouttheks]

the thing about NY is that if you fail here' date=' you just leave and your name is mildly cursed, but you are soon forgotten. If you fail miserably in Boston, you cannot show your face in new england again.[/quote']

 

Yeah. I feel bad about that too. But it is what it is :dunno:

 

If A-Rod opts out and the Yanks don't win the WS this year, his name will NEVER, EVER be forgotten. Jesus, I'd ALMOST feel bad for him if I watched him return to NY as an opposing player. Almost.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah. I feel bad about that too. But it is what it is :dunno:

 

If A-Rod opts out and the Yanks don't win the WS this year, his name will NEVER, EVER be forgotten. Jesus, I'd ALMOST feel bad for him if I watched him return to NY as an opposing player. Almost.

 

there are those who suck, and then there are those who are traitors. We dont usually have traitors, because traitors love green and we have lots of it. If ARod opts out, he will be a traitor and no, he wont be forgotten.

[CrespoBlows]

pinella ' date=' how's his chicago cubs doing ?[/quote']

 

How did the Tampa Bay Devil Rays do under his stewardship?

[jacksonianmarch]

How did the Tampa Bay Devil Rays do under his stewardship?

 

they always played hard. Piniella is a good manager, but you have to give him the players that will respond. He isnt the kind of manager who can handle a ton of ego driven superstars. But he gets frustrated with the kids. He'd be great on a mid level team and the cubs are that kind of team. Dont crucify him on this yr. He will turn the cubs around.