The Red Sox will finish 3rd in the AL East

[Gom]

Riverside' date=' is GOM starting to get on your nerves as he is mine? I wish he would just cut the crap and take up another cause because he is beginning to act more and more like a troll, and, frankly, he is pissing me off no end.[/quote']

 

Why am I pissing you off? Because I make a prediction that you don't like?

 

You can give it, but can't take it? At least ORS sticks to his guns. Sinking ship, but he never abandons it. I give him credit for that.

 

Plus, I'm not the only one who thinks the Red Sox will finish third.

[jacksonianmarch]

come on now gom yankees are good but the not gods .. i really think moose has only one more good season left . They are still a team of just hired guns they need to be a team

 

adam. Have you ever seen the ESPNNews commercial where the guy is talking out of his ass? Cause you do that way too often. The red sox are all hired guns. Take a look at their roster and tell me how many guys made it through their system vs NY. Cmon now adam, dont be stupid. Then again, that is like asking s*** to not stink.

[adam123]

Hello Gom dont worry the all hate me to

[jacksonianmarch]

Cano is a statue and Jeter is the most overrated defensive player in the game.

 

That being said, I don't think the discrepancy is as big as most would believe. It think it's pretty close, actually.

 

Cano got a whole lot better last yr on defense. He was very solid. Jeter isnt the best defensively, but he is much better than Lugo.

[jacksonianmarch]

Why am I pissing you off? Because I make a prediction that you don't like?

 

You can give it, but can't take it? At least ORS sticks to his guns. Sinking ship, but he never abandons it. I give him credit for that.

 

Plus, I'm not the only one who thinks the Red Sox will finish third.

 

I think the dubbing of Towers as the #5 has essentially eliminated Toronto from top 2. Like it or not, the sox will finish second in the east this yr.

[adam123]

adam. Have you ever seen the ESPNNews commercial where the guy is talking out of his ass? Cause you do that way too often. The red sox are all hired guns. Take a look at their roster and tell me how many guys made it through their system vs NY. Cmon now adam, dont be stupid. Then again, that is like asking s*** to not stink.[/QUOT

 

 

Ok you might be right ..but they dont have that team chemistry thats what i mean . I really think when judas came to your team he would rub off we will see this year ,and moose come on do you really want him on your team for 2 more yrs that guy can only pitch 5 innings before hes gassed . Basiclly we have the same team as you guys do but i think we are a lil more younger than you guys . but i could be wrong i dont know all

[TGov]

adam. Have you ever seen the ESPNNews commercial where the guy is talking out of his ass? Cause you do that way too often. The red sox are all hired guns. Take a look at their roster and tell me how many guys made it through their system vs NY. Cmon now adam' date=' dont be stupid. Then again, that is like asking s*** to not stink.[/quote']

 

(from today's active rosters)

well for the Sox theres, Varitek, Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon... 4

and for the Yanks theres, Cabrera, Jeter, Cano, Pettitte, Posada, Rivera, Proctor... 7

[jacksonianmarch]

 

 

Ok you might be right ..but they dont have that team chemistry thats what i mean . I really think when judas came to your team he would rub off we will see this year ,and moose come on do you really want him on your team for 2 more yrs that guy can only pitch 5 innings before hes gassed . Basiclly we have the same team as you guys do but i think we are a lil more younger than you guys . but i could be wrong i dont know all

 

they dont have your team chemistry? Arent you guys the team that imploded last yr? Man, if only we can have that chemistry. We only deal away our two cancers and bring back a beloved team leader and our chemistry goes down the shitter.

 

Try again adam, maybe you will make sense one day.

[TheKilo]

(from today's active rosters)

well for the Sox theres, Varitek, Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon... 4

and for the Yanks theres, Cabrera, Jeter, Cano, Pettitte, Posada, Rivera, Proctor... 7

 

Wasn't Proctor brought over in a trade from LAD?

 

And can you count Pettite? I'll give you the others.

[TGov]

Wasn't Proctor brought over in a trade from LAD?

 

And can you count Pettite? I'll give you the others.

 

Well I looked at Proctors bio and it said that he was only on the Yankees...

[jacksonianmarch]

Wasn't Proctor brought over in a trade from LAD?

 

And can you count Pettite? I'll give you the others.

 

Proctor never saw the light of day in LA. We got him, developed him in AAA and brought him up.

 

What about Wang and Karstens? Both of them are DL.

[TheKilo]

Proctor never saw the light of day in LA. We got him, developed him in AAA and brought him up.

 

What about Wang and Karstens? Both of them are DL.

 

If Wang wasn't hurt Karstens wouldn't be on the team. Pick one.

 

And Proctor was still shipped off.

 

I'm thinking 6-4 Yanks?

[Gom]

I think the dubbing of Towers as the #5 has essentially eliminated Toronto from top 2. Like it or not' date=' the sox will finish second in the east this yr.[/quote']

 

The addition of Frank Thomas and a full season from Burnett will more than offset the loss of Lilly, etc.

 

I know it's just one start, but the odds, in my opinion, are much greater that Schilling will show his age and that Beckett will be much closer to Beckett 2006 than Beckett 2005. He pitched in the NL in one of the largest parks in baseball against, at the time, one of the worst hitting divisions in baseball, to going to the AL East. I think it is a much safer bet that Schilling will be an average pitcher than revert to elite status, considering, and I remember, that masterpiece he had against the Yankees one game during the regular season [can't remember year, you guys probably do] where his fastball was consistently clocked at 96. Those days are gone.

 

If what I am saying is true, you have really one good starter, and that would be Matsuzaka. Wakefield is Wakefield, he can pitch until he's 50. However, the whole season rests on Beckett and Schilling. If they both turn it around, you guys can win the World Series. If they do what they did last year, you might, just might, sneak in to the post-season. If Schilling continues the decline that naturally comes with age, and Beckett does not improve, the lights will be off in October in Fenway. My money is on the latter.

[Cityofchampions33]

Cano is a statue and Jeter is the most overrated defensive player in the game.

 

That being said, I don't think the discrepancy is as big as most would believe. It think it's pretty close, actually.

 

yeah, Cano is not better than Pedroia at all, and to say theyre a wash is even somehwat reaching.

 

C - Varitek (Gold Glove)

1B - Mientkiewicz

2B - Pedroia

3B - Lowell

SS - Jeter

LF - Matsui

CF - Crisp

RF - Drew (Better arm)

 

End Tally: Sox by 2

[jacksonianmarch]

yeah, Cano is not better than Pedroia at all, and to say theyre a wash is even somehwat reaching.

 

C - Varitek (Gold Glove)

1B - Mientkiewicz

2B - Pedroia

3B - Lowell

SS - Jeter

LF - Matsui

CF - Crisp

RF - Drew (Better arm)

 

End Tally: Sox by 2

 

 

Wow, CoC, you are reaching pretty far.

 

Varitek has a gold glove, but as we have said with Jetes, that doesnt mean much. Vtek is no longer a stone wall and he can no longer throw anyone out. He is not even close to the catcher that Posada is on either side of the ball.

 

Cano gets a bad rap because he made some dumbass errors when he came to the bigs. Last yr he was leagues better and should have been considered (but it is right that he didnt win) for a gold glove. Top 12 in F%, top 10 in both ZR and RF. He was very good defensively. And to judge Pedroia, you need a season under his belt.

 

As far as giving Crisp a good rank, I dont agree. Crisp is a converted left fielder who I have seen people post on here previously that he takes terrible routes to flyballs. Even though Damon throws like a 2 yr old girl with MS, he takes very solid routes and is a very good CFer. I'd give them more of a wash.

 

And taking Drew over Abreu because of the arm? Abreu has more range and has a VERY strong arm. The only knock on Abreu has been his inherent lack of diving, something he essentially refuses to do. But with Drew, you dont want him to dive cause he may die.

 

Overall, I dont care if the matchups are in our favor or not. I still think the sox as a whole will be better if the ball is put into play on the ground and the yankees will be better if the ball is put in the air or the catcher needs to make a play. And since grounders are harder to play than flyballs, I give them the edge at this point, especially since our best defender is likely to be sitting half the games (Minky).

[Gom]

I was being generous. Abreu is better than Drew. He won a gold glove in the NL in 2005, and probably would have won it again if he wasn't traded mid-season. This is not Varitek from years ago who won a gold glove, this is the last full season he had with one team. Give me a break.

 

I'll even give you Pedroia over Cano, and I will say that the advantages are slight in both RF and 2B. However, it is huge at SS, LF, and 1B, with an advantage in CF and 3B for you, and us at catcher.

 

Overall, the Yankee defense is better, and gets better with Melky coming in for Damon. Imagine putting Wily Mo out there with Manny?

 

Etiher way, neither team will win because of their defense. The Yankees will lose less games because of errors than the Red Sox will. Neither one of us is the Twins.

 

You also better hope those errors don't come in the 6th inning or later. Unless Papelbon is pitching, with your bullpen, it will be like throwing gas on a fire.

[riverside sluggers]

Cano is a statue and Jeter is the most overrated defensive player in the game.

 

That being said, I don't think the discrepancy is as big as most would believe. It think it's pretty close, actually.

 

Its still beyond me how both AGon and Lowell didnt get gold gloves

[Cityofchampions33]

Wow, CoC, you are reaching pretty far.

 

Varitek has a gold glove, but as we have said with Jetes, that doesnt mean much. Vtek is no longer a stone wall and he can no longer throw anyone out. He is not even close to the catcher that Posada is on either side of the ball.

 

I doubt 2 years would remove that much, I'd still much ratehr have Tek blocking home before Posada, the knock against him last season was his offense, lets not carry it over to his D. Plus Posada, while throwing out 30% also had 129 attempts to do so in 2005, whereas Tek only had 86 attempts against him, I think it's safe to say MLB teams would run more often if they faced worse throwing, whther it be accuracy or what have you.

 

Cano gets a bad rap because he made some dumbass errors when he came to the bigs. Last yr he was leagues better and should have been considered (but it is right that he didnt win) for a gold glove. Top 12 in F%, top 10 in both ZR and RF. He was very good defensively. And to judge Pedroia, you need a season under his belt.

 

Yeah, he improved, but no way he had a "very good season". His RAA of 15 speaks for itself.

 

As far as giving Crisp a good rank, I dont agree. Crisp is a converted left fielder who I have seen people post on here previously that he takes terrible routes to flyballs. Even though Damon throws like a 2 yr old girl with MS, he takes very solid routes and is a very good CFer. I'd give them more of a wash.

 

Crisp's F% was better, I'll give him a slight edge in arm strength though it is somewhat dubious, and his RFg was better as well. Just fyi, I was giving this is a slight edge, as their lgF%s and RF9 are both even.

 

And taking Drew over Abreu because of the arm? Abreu has more range and has a VERY strong arm. The only knock on Abreu has been his inherent lack of diving, something he essentially refuses to do. But with Drew, you dont want him to dive cause he may die.

 

Drew ahs the better range, while Abreu has the better F%, that's why I gave Drew the edge with the better arm.

[Gom]

How you can give Drew the edge over Abreu, when they both played in the NL in 2005, but Abreu won the gold glove? Once again, you guys have a problem with reality and fantasy.

 

Also, keep in mind, that the Varitek/Posada comparisons are ridiculously weak. Varitek averaged 0.60 stolen base attempts against per game, while Posada had 0.76 stolen base attempts. Keep in mind that teams historically don't run as much in Fenway, and the ratio is much closer than the gap. Now, considering that Posada threw out 37.3% of all baserunners, and Varitek threw out 22%, it's not even close. Posada threw out baserunners more successfully 59% of the time. This is like comparing Youkilis to Mientkiewicz. Varitek is a shell of the player he once was, both in the field and at the plate. In the clubhouse, he is still as good as they get. Guys like him, Jeter, Ortiz, Damon, Posada, Mariano, they never change in the clubhouse. They just get old.

[CrespoBlows]

(from today's active rosters)

well for the Sox theres, , Pedroia, Youkilis, Papelbon... 3

and for the Yanks theres, Cabrera, Jeter, Cano, , Posada, Rivera, ... 5

 

Fixed.

[ORS]

I agree with one notion shared here, the GG is pretty meaningless. Posada is a better defensive catcher than Varitek despite the GG. Same thing holds true with Abreu and Drew, though.

 

THT's ZR last year

 

Drew: .665 - 18 Out of Zone

Abreu: .611 - 14 Out of Zone

 

These figures are park adjusted. That said, it's far from a perfect stat, so I'd call it a wash. There's absolutely no way Abreu should be considered superior, though.

[Gom]

My initial assessment was that they were a wash. Slight edge to Pedroia over Cano. Slight edge Crisp over Damon. Big edge to Lowell over Arod. Big edge to the Yankees with Matsui, Jeter, Mientkiewicz. Slight edge to Posada over Varitek.

 

That gives you two slight edges and one big one. The Yankees have three big edges and one slight one. Do you agree?

[ANiMAL]

well, id take manny in LF at fenway; no one has quite as much experience as him with the green monster [as long as he doesnt need to go to the bathroom]

[Cityofchampions33]

How you can give Drew the edge over Abreu' date=' when they both played in the NL in 2005, but Abreu won the gold glove? Once again, you guys have a problem with reality and fantasy.[/quote']

 

How did Jeter win a GG over AGon last year?

 

Keep in mind that teams historically don't run as much in Fenway,

 

Are you talking runners not advancing because of the space behind home plate? because if thats true I honestly had no idea, given teams ran 170 times against Tek in the 2000 and even more in 1999. But the arm isn't the only thing, it's that Tek can block home plate with the best of them, and if your going to use that argument against Drew, the same could be applied here. "How you can give Posada the edge over Tek, when they both played in the AL in 2005, but Tek won the gold glove?

[ksushi]

You're giving the Yankees the edge in left field over Manny? You are the biggest New York homer on this board, Gom.

 

I'll take Posada over Tek, Youk over Phelps/Minky, Pedroia over Cano, Jeter over Lugo, A-rod over Lowell, Manny over Matsui, Coco over Damon, Drew over Abreu and our rotation and bullpen and bench over yours right now. Papelbon is Mo-like dominant and I think our middle relief is better than NY's.

 

3rd place won't happen.

[jacksonianmarch]

You're giving the Yankees the edge in left field over Manny? You are the biggest New York homer on this board, Gom.

 

I'll take Posada over Tek, Youk over Phelps/Minky, Pedroia over Cano, Jeter over Lugo, A-rod over Lowell, Manny over Matsui, Coco over Damon, Drew over Abreu and our rotation and bullpen and bench over yours right now. Papelbon is Mo-like dominant and I think our middle relief is better than NY's.

 

3rd place won't happen.

 

 

Kool Aid anyone?

[ORS]

My initial assessment was that they were a wash. Slight edge to Pedroia over Cano. Slight edge Crisp over Damon. Big edge to Lowell over Arod. Big edge to the Yankees with Matsui, Jeter, Mientkiewicz. Slight edge to Posada over Varitek.

 

That gives you two slight edges and one big one. The Yankees have three big edges and one slight one. Do you agree?

I wouldn't call Jeter a big edge over Lugo. Each is strong where the other is weak. Jeter has a solid and accurate arm, but he's lacking in range. Lugo scampers to everything, but his arm is a blunder waiting to happen. You can see this in their THT ZR numbers. Jeter has a moderate, less than the difference between Abreu and Drew, edge there because he doesn't boot the ball, but he only averaged 27 OOZ plays the last 3 years. Lugo made 53, 70, and was on pace for 56 before getting traded last year.

 

Eyechart is much better than Youkilis, but will he play every day? Unlikely.

 

I'd call the comparison on the whole a wash.

[jacksonianmarch]

How did Jeter win a GG over AGon last year?

 

 

 

Are you talking runners not advancing because of the space behind home plate? because if thats true I honestly had no idea, given teams ran 170 times against Tek in the 2000 and even more in 1999. But the arm isn't the only thing, it's that Tek can block home plate with the best of them, and if your going to use that argument against Drew, the same could be applied here. "How you can give Posada the edge over Tek, when they both played in the AL in 2005, but Tek won the gold glove?

 

the gold glove is a popularity contest. AGon was far and away better defensively than Jeter.

[Cityofchampions33]

the gold glove is a popularity contest. AGon was far and away better defensively than Jeter.

 

that was my point

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

Our defense, yesterday notwithstanding, is better than Boston's. Look position by position. We get the nod at first with Mientkiewicz, Cano is better than Pedroia, Jeter is better than Lugo. I'll say at this point, Lowell is better than Arod. I think Posada is better than Varitek due to the throwing arm, as shown in the five game series when the Yankees ran wild on the paths. Abreu and Drew are a wash, Crisp takes it over Damon, and Matsui runs rings around Manny.

 

A few of these are tossups, but there is no doubt the Yankees get the edge at 1B, SS, and catcher. The Sox get CF and 3B, with RF and 2B kind of a tossup, with a slight edge at 2B for Cano.

 

When Phelps/Giambi is at first, agreed, 1B becomes a wash.

 

Youkilis/Mientkiewicz 2006 Zone Ratings: .847 (Youk) .824 (Mientkiewicz)

Pedroia/Cano 2006 ZR: .806 (Pedroia) .807 (Cano)

Lugo/Jeter 2006 ZR: .779 (Lugo) .805 (Jeter)

Lowell/Arod 2006 ZR: .765 (Lowell) .695 (Arod)

Manny/Matsui 2006 ZR: .482 (Manny) .684 (Matsui)

Crisp/Damon 2006 ZR: .780 (Crisp) .828 (Damon)

Drew/Abreu 2006 ZR: .665 (Drew) .604 (Philly)/.627 (NYY)

Varitek/Posada CS%: 18% (Tek) 35% (Posada)

 

4-3 Yanks (Pedroia and Cano are even), although I would argue that Tek is better than Posada.