Boras to speak tonight on Matsuzaka issue

[TheKilo]

gordon edes guess is that the deal is 5yrs 40mil. That wont even come close.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/zero_hour_appro.html

 

 

If I had to guess I'd say the total guaranteed money in the Sox proposal is in the $40 million range, with performance bonuses that could make it worth considerably more.

 

So if the base is 5/40, with incentives, how is that a bad deal? I mean I'd like to see the Sox offer maybe 5/50 plus incentives, but we don't know the incentives involved.

 

For a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch in the majors, $40 mil guaranteed is nothing to sneeze at.

 

BTW Boras said Matsuzaka is worth $100 mil including the posting fee last night, not on top of it.

 

I imagine this deal, if incentives are met, will exceed $100 mil including the posting fee.

[jacksonianmarch]

So if the base is 4/40' date=' with incentives, how is that a bad deal?[/quote']

 

he said 5-40. And Boras hates incentives. They are lottery tickets until guaranteed.

[jacksonianmarch]

"It's here in Southern California and it will leave on Wednesday morning," Epstein said. "We hope Matsuzaka-san will be on it so that we can complete the physical in Boston in time to get a contract done."

 

tomorrow morning is the end of it all.

[TheKilo]

he said 5-40. And Boras hates incentives. They are lottery tickets until guaranteed.

 

 

Incentives would be the way everyone saves face. If Matsuzaka pitches well enough he'll earn the money.

 

Boras can say "look what my client can potentially receive"

 

Sox FO says "You can earn the money, but we'll guarantee you $40 mil."

 

Did you also read my posts last night? How Seibu was ALREADY spending the $51.1 mil?

[a700hitter]

their MRI facilities are in Boston' date=' and getting an MRI on one days notice is impossible unless you own the facility.[/quote']Maybe they've already made the arrangements with a facility in CA. This deal will be close to $100 million by an organization worth more than a billion dollars and you think they will get tripped up by a physical. You have no idea where the Red Sox docs are and whether or not they have scheduled an MRI in a CA facility. Your deadline of Wednesday night is pure conjecture.

[jacksonianmarch]

Incentives would be the way everyone saves face. If Matsuzaka pitches well enough he'll earn the money.

 

Boras can say "look what my client can potentially receive"

 

Sox FO says "You can earn the money, but we'll guarantee you $40 mil."

 

Did you also read my posts last night? How Seibu was ALREADY spending the $51.1 mil?

 

If Boras has his way, Seibu gets nothing and everything goes to Dice-K.

[Beckett95]

Gagne got incentives. I think Matsuzaka whos never pitched in the MLB, is in the same situation. Gagne hasnt pitched in the MLB in 2 years, which is why he go an incentive contract with 6 miliion guranteed. Matsuzaka has never played in the MLB, which is why he deserves an incentive laden contract. I know Gagne has injury problems to, but its the closest comparison I can come up with.

 

I think he should be guranteed 8-12 million with incentives to get it to 16 million, maybe more

[mosox]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-redsox-matsuzaka&prov=ap&type=lgns

 

Epstein left Boras's at about 7 PM est tonight

 

Good, enough of this Boras side show. Fuel Henry's plane for Boston, and let Boras drive D-mat to LAX for the flight back to Japan.

[jacksonianmarch]

Gagne got incentives. I think Matsuzaka whos never pitched in the MLB, is in the same situation. Gagne hasnt pitched in the MLB in 2 years, which is why he go an incentive contract with 6 miliion guranteed. Matsuzaka has never played in the MLB, which is why he deserves an incentive laden contract. I know Gagne has injury problems to, but its the closest comparison I can come up with.

 

I think he should be guranteed 8-12 million with incentives to get it to 16 million, maybe more

 

two totally different situations. Gagne had other options and that was the best he could get. Dice K has one option in the states. Plus, Gagne is coming off some severe injuries, while Dice K is healthy.

[TheKilo]

If Boras has his way' date=' Seibu gets nothing and everything goes to Dice-K.[/quote']

 

You completely ignored the fact that Seibu is already spending the money.

 

Boras cannot buy out Matsuzaka from Seibu. The commissioner's office won't allow it.

 

If Matsuzaka does not sign with the Red Sox, Seibu has him pitch for them next year and most likely the year after because if Matsuzaka doesn't sign he costs the club $51 million. Why would they do him a favor and post him next year?

[jacksonianmarch]

I am saying that Boras couldnt give 2 shits if Seibu is spending money. And what does it matter. If no deal gets done, then Seibu is up the creek without a paddle.

 

Boras wont try to buy his freedom. He will likely take a lawsuit or at least threaten one. Remember, Boras has the capability to challenge baseball's anti-trust exemption. If he gets enough momentum in that direction, MLB will be a pawn in his hands.

[TheKilo]

I am saying that Boras couldnt give 2 shits if Seibu is spending money. And what does it matter. If no deal gets done, then Seibu is up the creek without a paddle.

 

Boras wont try to buy his freedom. He will likely take a lawsuit or at least threaten one. Remember, Boras has the capability to challenge baseball's anti-trust exemption. If he gets enough momentum in that direction, MLB will be a pawn in his hands.

 

Are you thickheaded? There's tremendous pressure on Matsuzaka to sign BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TEAM IS ALREADY SPENDING THE POSTING MONEY.

 

What grounds does Boras have to bring about a lawsuit? As far as you or I or anyone on here knows the porceedings to this point have been completely legal and legitimate. The Sox bid to negotiate with Matsuzaka. If they don't reach a deal, he goes back to Japan.

 

Typically, when lawsuits are brought about, there has to be some evidence of wrongdoing.

 

What has happened that can bring a lawsuit?

[jacksonianmarch]

Kilo, chill bro. Boras is making the decisions here. I think that is readily apparent in the negotiations. Dont try to kid yourself. Boras is the best bluffer in the game, and to be a great bluffer, you need not be afraid of what would happen if you fail. Boras is prepared to send this kid back. No amount of pressure will change that. Also, if Seibu is already spending his money, then it is pretty obvious why they are going bankrupt.

[jacksonianmarch]

Are you thickheaded? There's tremendous pressure on Matsuzaka to sign BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TEAM IS ALREADY SPENDING THE POSTING MONEY.

 

What grounds does Boras have to bring about a lawsuit? As far as you or I or anyone on here knows the porceedings to this point have been completely legal and legitimate. The Sox bid to negotiate with Matsuzaka. If they don't reach a deal, he goes back to Japan.

 

Typically, when lawsuits are brought about, there has to be some evidence of wrongdoing.

 

What has happened that can bring a lawsuit?

 

The lawsuit? How about not allowing someone to work in the US when they would be legally allowed to get any other job over here? I believe that is called discrimination to begin with. Also, I think it is kinda illegal to deny someone the ability to make their livelihood.

[a700hitter]

Are you thickheaded? There's tremendous pressure on Matsuzaka to sign BECAUSE HIS CURRENT TEAM IS ALREADY SPENDING THE POSTING MONEY.

 

What grounds does Boras have to bring about a lawsuit? As far as you or I or anyone on here knows the porceedings to this point have been completely legal and legitimate. The Sox bid to negotiate with Matsuzaka. If they don't reach a deal, he goes back to Japan.

 

Typically, when lawsuits are brought about, there has to be some evidence of wrongdoing.

 

What has happened that can bring a lawsuit?

Good points. Jacksonian thinks that this would be resolved quickly. Fat chance of that. There are two totally different jurisdictions involved-- the U.S. and japan. Unless there is an agreement by all the parties to go to arbitration, this could take a very long time. It could be very difficult to determine which laws apply. If he were able to secure Free Agency in the US, he would likely be sued in Japan. If a judgment were obtained against him in Japan, his property in Japan would be at risk to satisfy the judgment. The notion that Boras could free him earlier than 2 years is just preposterous. He won't even attempt it. It would be costly both in terms of money and time. The resolution if any could very likely come after the two years have expired.

[Fried Neckbones]

The lawsuit? How about not allowing someone to work in the US when they would be legally allowed to get any other job over here? I believe that is called discrimination to begin with. Also' date=' I think it is kinda illegal to deny someone the ability to make their livelihood.[/quote']

 

Seriously, jacksonian. I usually see your points, and give them some credit for validity, but come on. If I went out and applied for a job, then demanded a huge salary that far exceeded my experience and background, then got denied for said job, could I sue for that? I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is no. Nobody is denying Matsuzaka the right to work here. It's an argument about money. And save the talk about Boras trying to change the posting system as a whole. I don't give a crap about the posting system, I just give a crap about Matsuzaka. By the time any legal challenge is resolved, he'll be a free agent anyway.

[mosox]

This is not a question of denying someone to work in the U.S. It is about respecting an existing contract between DMat and Seibu, a contract which MLB and the Japan League have already agreed to acknowledge. That is why there is a posting system, to compensate Seibu which in turn will release Dmat from his Japanese contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

Seriously' date=' jacksonian. I usually see your points, and give them some credit for validity, but come on. If I went out and applied for a job, then demanded a huge salary that far exceeded my experience and background, then got denied for said job, could I sue for that? I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is no. Nobody is denying Matsuzaka the right to work here. It's an argument about money. And save the talk about Boras trying to change the posting system as a whole. I don't give a crap about the posting system, I just give a crap about Matsuzaka. By the time any legal challenge is resolved, he'll be a free agent anyway.[/quote']

 

Not that. By limiting his options through posting you are technically infringing on his rights to work where he wants to work.

[CrespoBlows]

The lawsuit? How about not allowing someone to work in the US when they would be legally allowed to get any other job over here? I believe that is called discrimination to begin with. Also' date=' I think it is kinda illegal to deny someone the ability to make their livelihood.[/quote']

 

Doesn't Seibu own Matsuzaka's rights until '08? I guess they could theoritically buy Matsuzaka's free agency, which probably could be won in court, but if Seibu doesn't want to sell him, they don't have to.

[example1]

The lawsuit? How about not allowing someone to work in the US when they would be legally allowed to get any other job over here? I believe that is called discrimination to begin with. Also' date=' I think it is kinda illegal to deny someone the ability to make their livelihood.[/quote']

 

I have a question...

 

can 18 year old Japanese players sign in the US without signing contracts in Japan? Or do high school players have to play in japan?

[jacksonianmarch]

Doesn't Seibu own Matsuzaka's rights until '08? I guess they could theoritically buy Matsuzaka's free agency' date=' which probably could be won in court, but if Seibu doesn't want to sell him, they don't have to.[/quote']

 

the fact that someone can "own your rights" even in this country is technically against the law. That is the antitrust exemption speaking. Forcing someone to work where they may not want to. Dont think Boras wont take that angle. You are talking about a lawyer here, and this guy is as scummy as they come.

[CrespoBlows]

I have a question...

 

can 18 year old Japanese players sign in the US without signing contracts in Japan? Or do high school players have the opportunity to sign with whomever they choose?

 

They haven't signed professional contracts. They are able to sign in the United States. Technically, Matsuzaka could have signed when he was 18, but decided to play in Japan.

[jacksonianmarch]

I have a question...

 

can 18 year old Japanese players sign in the US without signing contracts in Japan? Or do high school players have the opportunity to sign with whomever they choose?

 

yes, they can. Mac Suzuki did but then hurt his arm.

[CrespoBlows]

the fact that someone can "own your rights" even in this country is technically against the law. That is the antitrust exemption speaking. Forcing someone to work where they may not want to. Dont think Boras wont take that angle. You are talking about a lawyer here' date=' and this guy is as scummy as they come.[/quote']

 

No, not in this sense. If you sign a contract with a team, you cannot buy your free agency. You must serve the length of your contract.

 

No one is forcing Matsuzaka to play for the Red Sox, he can go back to Japan, and try to buy his free agency, but if Seibu doesn't want to sell, they don't have to.

[jacksonianmarch]

No' date=' not in this sense. If you sign a contract with a team, you cannot buy your free agency. You must serve the length of your contract.[/quote']

 

Have you ever quit a job and moved somewhere else in the same industry? You cannot do that in baseball.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/no_progress.html

 

no progress is the word.

[a700hitter]

Not that. By limiting his options through posting you are technically infringing on his rights to work where he wants to work.

Dude this is way above your head. He has a contractual relationship with Seibu. That contract probably requires that he go through posting. There is most likely a contract between Japan baseball and MLB regarding this. A breach of such an agreement also would have consequences. Such an agreement is completely legal. US companies constantly enter into agreements not to hire each others employees. You are talking about things of which you don't have a clue, so just stop.

[CrespoBlows]

Have you ever quit a job and moved somewhere else in the same industry? You cannot do that in baseball.

 

Yeah, but I don't sign contracts when I get hired.

 

If I signed a five year deal with Miller, quit in the middle of my contract, and Miller doesn't want me to go work for Budwiser for the rest of my contract, they are allowed to do that. If Miller and I, agree to a buyout, they cannot exercise a restraint of trade.

 

In this case, allowing baseball players to quit in the middle of their contracts hurts MLB as a whole, and couldn't possibly be ruled illegal.

[jacksonianmarch]

you are probably right. I just heard on XM that one thing Boras may go after was the antitrust exemption if he cannot get rid of the posting system.

[example1]

Not that. By limiting his options through posting you are technically infringing on his rights to work where he wants to work.

 

 

Couldn't someone sue the Japanese league for only allowing a certain number of non-Japanese players on each team?