Wily Mo revisited

[schillingouttheks]

The only question mark out of the 3 that you listed was Lowell.

 

Youkilis was going to be better than Millar. Hell, Mo Vaughn at this point in his career would have been better than Millar. I think someone also wanted Buckner to be brought back.

 

Loretta was expected to hit like this. He's a career .301 hitter coming into this season, and it was definitely expected that he'd hit like it. Graff was great, but Loretta was expected to do better.

 

Lowell coming off of the worst year of his career was the question mark, however he performed like the all-star 3B like he is in the years previous to his slumping year, and he's always been known for his D. This was the only question mark, IMO.

 

I don't think those are the greatest examples to use.

[seabeachfred]

Kilo, all the men you mentioned were question marks going into this year. There were dozens of posts here and on other boards during Spring Training saying Lowell was through, that without steroids he couldn't hit anymore, and, plus, he was coming off a horrendous years. He WAS a question mark. Youkalis was not a universal choice for a starting position because there was questions whether he could play first base and hit enough to stay in the lineup. He WAS also a question mark. As for Loretta, he was coming off a major injury and the talk was he was slowing down and losing a couple of steps in the field and some quickness at the plate. He was ALSO a question mark. As for Gonzo he will always be a question mark as long as he hits as lousy as he does and with Varitek having a poor year and Mirabelli in the lineup every time Wakefield pitches, we have some very weak bats in the lineup anyway. The fact that Youk, Mike and Loretta have done very well for us does should not detract from the fact that there were questions about each before the season.

[Mr Crunchy]

Strong words Crunch and I agree with a lot of what you say, but please do not give Arroyo more credit than he deserves. The fact is he NEVER beat the Yankees in the years he was with the Red Sox, NEVER, and his ERA against them was almost 6.00. Pena? I think the Red Sox are really taking a big chance with him. He could easily revert to the strikeout slob he was with the Reds and he cannot play right field in Boston. I think the Sox had better hope for a quick development from Dave Murphy, an emergence of Adam Stern or resign Trot Nixon because I really feel if Pena is a full time player he will set strikeout records that will stand the test of time. Before he got hurt he seemed to be reverting back to his Cincy habits of swinging at everything they threw at him.

 

 

sbf

i saw arroyo on back to back starts beat ny in may 04 against kevin brown who was at the time 5-0 and their savior...

i dont think he figured into the decision in the 1st game but he went 7

the 2nd game went 12-14 innings and he left with the lead after 7.....2-1

he shut them down in game 6 and made arod look like a moron

than in itself makes him a legend

who doesnt have arod wearing a purse and a womens hat on as he slaps at the ball for a screen saver??

 

anyways

my only point is this

if youre serious about winning it all( i thought we were) you dont trade a 15 game winner with 200innings a year as a given.

a guy with no ego who loved playing here

for wily f pena.

 

ya im beating a dead horse,ive got nothing else to beat.

my dick is torn to shreds and my kids and wife left town shortly after beckett beaned that guy in toronto up 4 runs in the 8th inning

life aint been the same since....

 

now our pitching looks worse than ny's

i penciled in schill for 20 beckett close to it,wake and arroyo 15 a yo and clement 13-8

as it stands now

schill is there

beckett was on his way till the above catastrophe occured

wake got off to a suck start and has no run support and clement may lose 20

 

i hate being desperate in early june but it is what it is

[RoyNHSox]

ya im beating a dead horse,ive got nothing else to beat.

my dick is torn to shreds and my kids and wife left town shortly after beckett beaned that guy in toronto up 4 runs in the 8th inning

life aint been the same since....

 

Good thing you don’t own a dog.

 

With hindsight it’s clear that Theo misjudged the depth of the starting pitching, but at the beginning of the season wasn’t Arroyo penciled to be the long man out of the pen?

 

And like you pointed out it’s early June, not early September. There is every reason to believe that the Sox FO is working on improving the pitching situation. A lot can happen between now and the trading deadline.

[Mr Crunchy]

roy

i own 2,both dachschunds....they run the house,theyre germans.

 

hindsight?

not on my end

clement sucked the entire 2nd half last season,wells was 40lbs overweight and with pending knee surgery we knew he wasnt ready,couple with the fact that he didnt want to pitch here tells me that theo had lenny dinardo penciled in the day arroyo was shipped out.

then we had nobody to catch wakefield...did theo really think josh bard could handle the job?....

losing doug,trading arroyo,wells trade request and a skittish clement were the givens

based on the givens you cant under any circumstances trade arroyo

what was up in the air was schills health and becketts blisters and foulkes knees.

thankfully those 3 havent been hurt because if they were??

 

ha

we'd be 10 out and looking up at tampa

 

theo gets respect and a pass because he won the big one but his legacy isnt as good as 1 may think considering the bunny kim for hillebrand deal,trading sanchez for suppan and sauerkraut etc....

he can redeem himself by getting us a solid arm down the stretch...

[seabeachfred]

Crunch, sorry to hear you are so down and I hope your wife and kids haven't left you for good; that would really be a bummer. I will keep the good thoughts coming on your behalf. Yes, you cleared up the Arroyo vs Yankees thing for me. He did have no decisions against them even though he pitched those two real good games as you mentioned. Look you are not alone; I was really down last night and I'm a little apprehensive about the future right this moment, but you know how it is with the Red Sox. They drive you from the penthouse to the outhouse in one swoop and you have to hold on tight or you get thrown off the ride flat on your ass. We have to weather the storm. Remember the last two series against the Yankees saw us hammer the hell out of them only to see them come back the next game and beat us. We have to show we can do the same thing.

[Mr Crunchy]

thank you fred

they didnt leave

they just keep me in a padded room till october 25th or in that area and let me out to go to work....

its not as bad as i make it sound.....

most of the time...

 

i didnt want to lay the big money on ny last nite so i bet them laying 1.5 runs

HA

serves me right

i came out of last nites game with another sick feeling but it was nice to see a kid compete for a job like it mattered and it did and he pitched his balls off

 

anyone remember juan pena?

i think he was 2-0 in his career and they both came against ny in a short stretch

then his arm went and

then he came back and was our best pitcher in that grapefruit season and in his last start he got hit with a soft liner right off that surgically repaired elbow and his career ended that day.....anyways

he was the last rookie i saw stick it in nys ass like dave pauley did last evening

[seabeachfred]

Crunch, glad to know you were over exaggerating on the spouse front but I certainly have known of cases where baseball has caused problems in marriages. Hell, my wife will NOT go to any game with me where the Red Sox are playing. Absolutely no way. Well, she learned quickly how rabid and out of kilter we can become. Yes, me, too. I'm singing the blues this morning. How the hell couldn't be back up David with more offensive support than we did. We laid down like dogs last night and if we have any pride at all we will come back smoking the next two games. I don't remember Juan Pena. Fact is, I didn't become a Red Sox fan until 2001. In August of 2000 on a baseball tour through Sports Travel we went to Fenway Park on the last leg of the journey. I got hooked right there, completely and utterly and have wondered since why I didn't see the Red Sox as my team all those years before. Trying to catch up for lost time is hard but I am doing my damndest to breach all those lost years. BTW, when the Red Sox won the World Series in 2004 it was on October 27th, my birthday. Think I ever got a better present than that? Have a great day my friend.

[mtbykr]

My wife is really good about the sox. She grew up in Virginia and didn't follow sports at all until we met--now she's stuck:D Everything is usually smooth, but then there are nights like last night when manram got robbed to top off a "perfect night:rolleyes: " I chucked the remote (not far though:) ) and she just looked at me and told me i needed to calm down!!! What truly sucks is that Pauley had the 1st great outing of his MLB career, in Yankee Stadium, against the yankers, and we couldn't put up more than one run.

[seabeachfred]

MTB, male Red Sox fans must have wives who are very very understanding because we are not anything like other fans, no way, no how. Our intensity and rabid devotion to our team borders on the insane and we need wonderful ladies who can put up with us. My wife Linda is a polished 14-karat gem even though she is an Angels and Dodgers fan. She gives me plenty of room to rant and rave, but when it is time to behave she knows when to let me have it and get back to reality. A Red Sox fan's wife earns everything she gets.

[RoyNHSox]

A couple of interesting points from the Globe’s Extra Bases re WMP and his rehab:

 

Wily Mo Pena's next move will be to extended spring training in Fort Myers, Fla. Pena, who still hasn't been able to hit on the field because of all the rain, plans to stay with the team until the Sox leave for Miami. After getting "free reign" in Florida, Pena will move up to Triple-A Pawtucket before rejoining the Red Sox. In addition to getting some at bats, Pena will likely take some balls at first base. Without a backup first baseman -- after J.T. Snow was designated for assignment -- Pena might be able to fill that role. Though Francona said he isn't sure that Pena would ever play at first in the big leagues, he's probably going to start at first a couple of times in Pawtucket.

 

"We want him to get some at bats because we don't want him to come here and sit," Francona said. "That doesn't do him any good to rush to sit. And I think he thinks he needs some at bats. We'll let him get comfortable."

 

The Sox are trying to increase his versatility by prepping him for 1B.

 

Good idea not to rush him back to Boston, but rather allow him to get some regular AB’s in Pawtucket. His lack of options and his assumed bench role would definitely limit any kind of consistent AB’s which would only delay his progress.

 

[Mr Crunchy]

Good idea not to rush him back to Boston, but rather allow him to get some regular AB’s in Pawtucket. His lack of options and his assumed bench role would definitely limit any kind of consistent AB’s which would only delay his progress.

 

look

theres no doubt about his power and his power potential

theres also no doubt about his lack of patience and how that will be exploited down the road against better pitchers

hes been a pro since he was 17 and that contract he signed stunted his growth

 

150abs under watchful eyes,tapes etc.. can only help him

[RoyNHSox]

I’d rather see the Sox take their time with him and not rush him back. This year was supposed to be a developmental/instructional year for him. Why not spend the time needed in AAA to work on his fielding and allow him to get everyday AB’s. With the surgery he probably has lost a great deal of power, so if takes until early/mid August before they bring him back then okay with me.

[seabeachfred]

When the Red Sox traded for Pena it was because they believed they had no real big power prospects in their farm system. Except for Brandon Moss who could become one if he ever gets consistent and learns how to make consistent contact, the Red Sox were right. The problem is Pena has used all his minor league options and still has the problem of discipline at the plate and strikeouts. Now we have an opportunity to give him a large rehab and not count it as a minor league option. He needs at-bats and video tape observations to really get him ready for when he bring him back up. Let's make sure he's ready because when he comes up he will no doubt get a large number of at-bats and we need him hitting well for us when called on.

[SCM33]

 

anyone remember juan pena?

i think he was 2-0 in his career and they both came against ny in a short stretch

then his arm went and

then he came back and was our best pitcher in that grapefruit season and in his last start he got hit with a soft liner right off that surgically repaired elbow and his career ended that day.....anyways

he was the last rookie i saw stick it in nys ass like dave pauley did last evening

 

 

Juan Pena is still playing, he was just never really that good. (http://thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Juan-Pena.shtml). I saw him pitch on TV during the winter dominican winter league, I believe he was Tejadas teamate. He was never that good, and wasnt supposed to be either, just a flash in the pan.

[a700hitter]

What is the word on WMP being activated? I am assuming it will be Monday. I need to know so I can schedule my Willie Harris DFA party.

[jsinger121]

It might be Monday. His 20 days in the minors is getting close to being over and you can sure the Red Sox want to get him as many at-bats in the minors as they can before he has to return.

[seabeachfred]

I'm still shocked that Willy Harris is still on the team. After he got picked off Thursday night which helped cost us a game, I thought for sure that the FO would finally realize this guy is useless and would send him on his way. For some reason Theo and the gang like this worthless bum.

[riverside sluggers]

I'm still shocked that Willy Harris is still on the team. After he got picked off Thursday night which helped cost us a game, I thought for sure that the FO would finally realize this guy is useless and would send him on his way. For some reason Theo and the gang like this worthless bum.

 

He's just here as the 5th outfielder until Wily Mo comes back, which is this week

[a700hitter]

He's just here as the 5th outfielder until Wily Mo comes back, which is this week

DFA Party at my house.

[seabeachfred]

He's just here as the 5th outfielder until Wily Mo comes back, which is this week

 

Riverside next week cannot come fast enough for me. My God, do you think Harris would have survived if he played for the Yankees? Steinbrenner would have put lickety split on the "D" Train out of the Bronx in two shakes of a monkey's ass.:dunno: :thumbdown

[Mr Crunchy]

hopefully the king of K's can pitch cause with wake not able to throw 6ip in a month we now need a 4and a 5

 

b a d

 

did i mention nobody sane trades pitching

[RoyNHSox]

In terms of 4th and 5th OF’er, I think WMP will be more the 4th and Gabe will move down to the 5th. It might just be semantics here, but I see Gabe becoming more of the pinch runner/utility guy off the bench now that Willie Harris is gone.

[jsinger121]

Bringing this thread back from the dead. WMP heating up while arroyo is 0-5 with a 5.29 era in his last 10 starts.

[BoSox34]

...and the best part is that he'll only get better.

[jsinger121]

while arroyo will continue to be average at best

[Pesky]

I have a $500 bet that Wily Mo out performs Abreu over the remainder of this year and next year. If he hits more homers, has a higher average and has more RBI, or just 2 of the 3, I win. Luckily my friend didn't want OBP or Ks to be a choice.

 

I love Wily Mo. I think he has some huge season in front of him. If he gets a little more discipline, he is easily a 40 HR, 120 RBI, .300 guy.

 

And the NL finally learned what type of pitcher Arroyo is. Imagine what his 3.5 ERA would translate in to the AL. Probably like 5...which we still could use. But he is sucking of late.

 

I always stood firm to my original opinion of the trade, that it was a steal for Boston. Wily is a talent that doesn't come around too often.

[riverside sluggers]

If Wily Mo is able to reduce his Ks consistently with help from Ortiz, Manny, and Dr. Papa Jack.... whoah watch out

[papi 74]

the trade was bad and we know that but the real problem is david wells we gambeled on him from the start ..and now we know we lost ... i mean he doesent evevn want a rehab start ....come on if he did we would of know he was done ... hes the real problem ... arroy is great dont get me wrong but we need more than just him ...

[RedSoxRooter]

while arroyo will continue to be average at best

 

He's lost like 6 straight decisions hasn't he?