Wily Mo revisited

[TheRivernator]

MTB, just think of what you said. YES seems more open minded about the opposition than ESPN is when someone is playing the Yankees. Why should that be? I cannot get over the feeling the Yankees are the darlings of ESPN--pure and simple. They didn't seem none to happy when the Red Sox came from behind Thursday to beat their darling Yankees, I would bet. I only saw snippets of the game, though I saw the Red Sox score their last three runs. I saw most of the game on Wednesday and the bias of Joe Morgan was absolutely sickening, and that other clown, the guy who love to make games out of people's names, should stick with football because he is a pathetic baseball analyst. Well at least we wound up happier than ESPN did since we took the series.

 

I think you are being a little paranoid. Look at the programming. When the yankees lose it is the first story on sportscenter. When they win, they are an afterthough. I think ESPN actually wants both of us to fail...

[seabeachfred]

Riverman, what you say may contain an element of truth but please don't try and tell me that Joe Morgan and that other clown that was teamed up with him on those two broadcasts did not have a Yankee bias. They certainly did. As for the Yankees being big news when they lose, ESPN isn't stupid. They know that most of the country is anti-Yankee and they play to their audience. Besides, the Yankees usually win and they have their tradition and record behind them so it is special with a lot of people when they fail and ESPN wants to milk it for the benefit of those fans to despise the Yankees. As for that cable's bias against the Red Sox, it is ingrained and has been for quite some time. I noticed when they gave the highlights of the two Red Sox wins it was like over and out and that's that. Sorry, I still maintain that ESPN and what passes for their announcers are pro-Yankee. My opinion.

[mtbykr]

Riverman, what you say may contain an element of truth but please don't try and tell me that Joe Morgan and that other clown that was teamed up with him on those two broadcasts did not have a Yankee bias. They certainly did. As for the Yankees being big news when they lose, ESPN isn't stupid. They know that most of the country is anti-Yankee and they play to their audience. Besides, the Yankees usually win and they have their tradition and record behind them so it is special with a lot of people when they fail and ESPN wants to milk it for the benefit of those fans to despise the Yankees. As for that cable's bias against the Red Sox, it is ingrained and has been for quite some time. I noticed when they gave the highlights of the two Red Sox wins it was like over and out and that's that. Sorry, I still maintain that ESPN and what passes for their announcers are pro-Yankee. My opinion.

 

 

Well, to add a little to this: i watched the 1st 2 games of the series on YES and the 3rd on ESPN. What i found funny was that during the 3rd I got bombarded with a lot of older yank highlights---i forget how many times i saw the aaron boone highlight from 03. There were actually more yank highlights on ESPN than on YES...at least that's what i remember! Ohh and i really like Berman (morgan's partner) but i would prefer to hear him do football where he is at his best!

[MC Hammer]

I think you are being a little paranoid. Look at the programming. When the yankees lose it is the first story on sportscenter. When they win, they are an afterthough. I think ESPN actually wants both of us to fail...

... yeaaaaaaaaaaah ... no. If you can honestly watch ESPN, and not see the clear bias they have for certain teams then maybe you're watching the wrong channel. Just consider that ESPN's baseball analysts completely ignored the fact that the Yankees have no rotation to speak of, and just discussed their amazing offense. They didn't spend a second discussing the fact that a team with WS aspirations has Shawn Chacon as their 3rd best starter.

[TheRivernator]

... yeaaaaaaaaaaah ... no. If you can honestly watch ESPN, and not see the clear bias they have for certain teams then maybe you're watching the wrong channel. Just consider that ESPN's baseball analysts completely ignored the fact that the Yankees have no rotation to speak of, and just discussed their amazing offense. They didn't spend a second discussing the fact that a team with WS aspirations has Shawn Chacon as their 3rd best starter.

 

Chacon has been fine, just because he struggled against you guys doesnt discount what he has done. Wang just threw 8 innings of shutout ball. Mussina has been amazing. RJ is our problem, and we'll see just how big today....

[a700hitter]

Chacon has been fine, just because he struggled against you guys doesnt discount what he has done. Wang just threw 8 innings of shutout ball. Mussina has been amazing. RJ is our problem, and we'll see just how big today....

Chacon's Leiter-esque high pitch counts will eventually wear down the Yankee pen. He rarely can get past the 6th, even in his wins, because of his pitch count. Wang had a really great game against an Oakland lineup without Chavez and Frank Thomas, Bobby Crosby was batting 5th. It was a god awful lineup fielded by the A's that game. Wang is an average starter, nothing more than a number 4 or 5 guy.

[TheRivernator]

Chacon's Leiter-esque high pitch counts will eventually wear down the Yankee pen. He rarely can get past the 6th, even in his wins, because of his pitch count. Wang had a really great game against an Oakland lineup without Chavez and Frank Thomas, Bobby Crosby was batting 5th. It was a god awful lineup fielded by the A's that game. Wang is an average starter, nothing more than a number 4 or 5 guy.

 

Our bullpen can handle Chacon's high pitch counts this season as compared to the past. Plus, he may only give you 6, but for the most part, he allowed 1 run in that 6 and hands off a lead. Its better than having a leiteresque pitch count and handing over a deficit like your boy Clement. Also, having watched Wang throw in his last few games, he has been very very good. After watching him last yr, I can say that he is finally finding his control again and is ready to be a solid #3. I dont care what the lineup was last game, he would have dominated them. His stuff was that good. His sinker was consistently at 94 and he was hitting spots with it, something he wasnt able to do earlier this season....

[NomahsHammSammich]

Wang is ok. He reminds me alot of Derek Lowe. If he is getting the low strike, he is gonna be pretty tough to score on unless all of those grounders find holes. Right now, I would say Wang is the Yankees 2nd best starter.. and it isn't even close.

[Dana Kiecker]

Gammons said the same thing on EEI this morning... " privately, Brian and Joe consider Wang their best starter"

[Cityofchampions33]

I actually like Wang a lot, he is basically lowe but without the emotion. I think he'll be very good in a few years, when RJ n Mussina are either gone or gettin worse. And the ne thing I notice about Moose, is thateven when he is off, he can keep it togetehr and get out of multiple jams, and always keeps his team in it. I remember one game he gave up 4 in the 1st and shut us down the rest of the way.

[Cocos Disciples]

I actually like Wang a lot, he is basically lowe but without the emotion. I think he'll be very good in a few years, when RJ n Mussina are either gone or gettin worse. And the ne thing I notice about Moose, is thateven when he is off, he can keep it togetehr and get out of multiple jams, and always keeps his team in it. I remember one game he gave up 4 in the 1st and shut us down the rest of the way.

 

[a700hitter]

Wang is ok. He reminds me alot of Derek Lowe. If he is getting the low strike, he is gonna be pretty tough to score on unless all of those grounders find holes. Right now, I would say Wang is the Yankees 2nd best starter.. and it isn't even close.

The dif between Lowe and Wang is that Lowe has a rubber arm. He never had a sore arm. Wang has already had shoulder problems.

[seabeachfred]

Well, to add a little to this: i watched the 1st 2 games of the series on YES and the 3rd on ESPN. What i found funny was that during the 3rd I got bombarded with a lot of older yank highlights---i forget how many times i saw the aaron boone highlight from 03. There were actually more yank highlights on ESPN than on YES...at least that's what i remember! Ohh and i really like Berman (morgan's partner) but i would prefer to hear him do football where he is at his best!

 

Well MTB, are we in the same boat then? Can you even tell me why ESPN would do such a thing and ring in the Yankee highlights of the past? Sure you can and so can Hammer, One Red Seat and the whole lot of us. Simple really. They are pro-Yankee. Did you see Ortiz' fourth game homer in that ALCS montage? Did you see Foulke strike out Tony what's his name to end game six? Did you Pokey make the final play in game seven? You saw none of that, and let me let you in on a little secret. You won't see on ESPN now or never. What more proof do we need? :D :D :harhar: :harhar:

[The Monster is my Mom]

I would like to extend my official apology to Wily Mo for doubting his mad skills. Wily, you are the man!!!

[SCM33]

I would like to extend my official apology to

Wily Mo for doubting his mad skills. Wily, you are the man!!!

 

I have been saying it since day one. We are watching the transformation from a beast with power in to a premier major league hitter. We saw it once with David Ortiz, and I think this is very similar.

 

The last few games teams were pitching him away and he was hitting soft shots to right field with no power, tonight he takes an outside pitch and drives into the seats in right field. You have to think that Manny, Papi, and Papa Jack were working with him to notice that teams were looking to work him away. Tonight he looked away, and drove the ball outta the yard. Lets not forget how atrocious he was in the OF either, he is looking better and starting to get more comfortable. The guy is turning into a star, watch todays game, and the past few weeks games....and compare his approach at the plate compared to earlier this season. He is a completely different hitter taking much better SWINGS instead of HACKS.

[seabeachfred]

Monsterman and SCM, count me in for an apology to Wily Mo as well. He has been a very pleasant surprise and has made tremendous progress under the tutelege of Papa Jack and the TLC of Ortiz and Ramirez. On Baseball Tonight I just saw what he looked like in Cincy last year, swinging wildly at everything and striking out in droves while looking absolutely crappy with the bat. He looks totally different. His new found plate discipline has astounded me. We might have walked into a real good thing with the man.

[a700hitter]

Monsterman and SCM, count me in for an apology to Wily Mo as well. He has been a very pleasant surprise and has made tremendous progress under the tutelege of Papa Jack and the TLC of Ortiz and Ramirez. On Baseball Tonight I just saw what he looked like in Cincy last year, swinging wildly at everything and striking out in droves while looking absolutely crappy with the bat. He looks totally different. His new found plate discipline has astounded me. We might have walked into a real good thing with the man.

He's not a bad CF either.

[SCM33]

Well, you and monsterman can aplogize lol. I always said that from day one till now he is a completely different hitter and takes a completely different approach. A RH with that power hitting the ball opposite field for power and average reminds me of a young Manny Ramirez.

[seabeachfred]

SCM, come on. You didn't really say that when the trade was made. Did you? I mean he looked absolutely crappy when he first got to the Red Sox, swinging at balls in the dirt, over his head and behind him. Well, if you did, you are in the wrong profession. Hire yourself out as a roving coach with some ML team.

[seabeachfred]

Hitman, yes, he is a good CF. I've told a number of people here and on other boards that as a former CF when I played as a youngster, I have always felt that CF was the easiest position in the OF to play. You have to cover more ground but you see the ball off the bat a lot better and that makes you get a better jump on the ball. I hated to play LF later in my career and I could take or leave RF.

[SCM33]

SCM, come on. You didn't really say that when the trade was made. Did you? I mean he looked absolutely crappy when he first got to the Red Sox, swinging at balls in the dirt, over his head and behind him. Well, if you did, you are in the wrong profession. Hire yourself out as a roving coach with some ML team.

 

What I saw, was a guy with huge HR ability, and a ton of raw ability, much like David Ortiz. Check back at my postings, I have been saying it since day one. I have kept saying that Manny, Papi, and Papa Jack are going to influence him, and teach him how to become a big league hitter and harness his power. And say what you want about him last year, people were oogly eyed about the talent he had as a big league hitter. I also followed him a little last year an years before. He is a kid, and has monster HR power and superstar talent. Look at my previous postings if you dont believe me...

[jsinger121]

I know this is a small sample but in the 13 Games Pena has played in Center he has a ZR of 9.39 and a RF of 3.21 in 31 total chances. Pretty good so far.

[seabeachfred]

SCM, no checking necessary. Since when do Red Sox fans doubt each other? That's for Yankee fans. Well, good show. You had it wired all along. Me? I had real doubts but I would rather be wrong as see him do well rather than be right and watch him parade endlessly back to the dugout after striking out. I just keep my fingers crossed that this is the start of a great career with him on our team and not a mirage.

[SCM33]

SCM, no checking necessary. Since when do Red Sox fans doubt each other? That's for Yankee fans. Well, good show. You had it wired all along. Me? I had real doubts but I would rather be wrong as see him do well rather than be right and watch him parade endlessly back to the dugout after striking out. I just keep my fingers crossed that this is the start of a great career with him on our team and not a mirage.

 

 

Its not a mirage. Bob Zupzic was a mirage, Phil Plantier was a mirage, Izzy Alcantara was a mirage, Michael Coleman, Rudy Pemberton were mirages.

 

WMP has a track record in the big leagues, he just needed somebody to harness the talent he had. Instead of hacking, like he has done his whole big league career, he is now going the other way, looking for his pitches and taking pitches that are intended to get him out. A mirage would be someone we think will be good based on minor league numbers. WMP has already dispalyed impressive big league power numbers, now he is refining his other hitting abilities.

[seabeachfred]

Jsing, I don't know how much baseball you played as a youngster, but if you did I think you know that playing CF is actually the easiest to play. I played that position for three years during the time I was a pretty good lefthanded life drive hitter. When the competition got tougher as I got old older there were CF's who were better than I was and I had to play the other two spots some of the time. LF was terrible; hard to play. RF was a little easier, but I was a left handed thrower so maybe that's the reason.

[Beckett95]

i play OF right now, and agree that CF is the easiest. It much easier to get a good jump playing CF than one of the corners. You need to be able to cover more ground in CF, but dont necesarily need a strong arm. In center you know where the ball is going, right after it leaves the bat. In LF/RF its harder to judge the ball.

[SCM33]

i play OF right now, and agree that CF is the easiest. It much easier to get a good jump playing CF than one of the corners. You need to be able to cover more ground in CF, but dont necesarily need a strong arm. In center you know where the ball is going, right after it leaves the bat. In LF/RF its harder to judge the ball.

 

 

CF is not the easiest OF position to play. You can get a better read on the ball yes, but you still need the speed and ability to play CF. If CF is the easiest position to play, then why are most bad OF's playing LF? Example...Rondell White, Manny Ramirez, Canseco when he played...Why did Biggio go from CF to LF? Why was Knoblauch a LF and not a CF?

 

Then let me ask you this....why are the BEST OF's in the game playing CF? Torrii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Bernie for so many years, Griffey when he was right. Darren Lewis (most consecutive games played without an error). Johnny Damon, Jim Edmonds. Why was Coco Crisp a LF in Cleveland? Because he struggled in CF.

 

LF is the easiest position to play, especially in Fenway. Manny Ramirez has limited ability going back on a ball, which is why he plays the monster rather than RF like he did for so many years in Cleveland.

 

I played all three and I felt that RF was the hardest, then CF....and LF was by far the easiest. In LF most batters are RH so they hit alot of balls that dont move. In RF most hitters are RH and the ball is always slicing away or hooking. CF gets a little bit of both but allows you to get good jumps. At Fenway, RF is the hardest....with the corner, the large amount of area to cover and the Sun and shadow in day games.

 

You need to be athletic to play CF, and there are not many good CF's in the game. If this is true, then how is it the easiest?

 

EDIT: CF may have been the easiest in highschool, or DIV 3 College baseball...but I think its unfair to say what is or isnt the easiest to play at the major league level. The game moves alot faster, and the players are alot better. But I do know this. In Little league, HS and College...my team always has the BEST Outfielder playing CF, and the worst playing LF. Just my experiences though.

[seabeachfred]

SCM, the thing that worried me about Wily Mo was his high strikeout totals and real lack of progress toward eliminating this problem in the eight years of pro ball experience he had before the Red Sox traded for him. When he played against us last summer he looked absolutely horrid, striking out seven times in ten at bats and looking lost out in RF. His improvement has been remarkable and I only hope that he keeps this up and not regresses. He does havethe advantage of Papa Jack, Manny and Big Papi to help him along and watch his back. So far so good.

[seabeachfred]

i play OF right now, and agree that CF is the easiest. It much easier to get a good jump playing CF than one of the corners. You need to be able to cover more ground in CF, but dont necesarily need a strong arm. In center you know where the ball is going, right after it leaves the bat. In LF/RF its harder to judge the ball.

 

 

Thank you Beck; I have been saying that all along and I really believe some of our colleagues on this board who might never have played in the outfield doubted what we are saying. You said it all. Not only is it the easiest of the OF positions to play, but you can get by with an average arm if you get a good jump on the ball and can charge balls hit in the outfield. :thumbsup:

[seabeachfred]

CF is not the easiest OF position to play. You can get a better read on the ball yes, but you still need the speed and ability to play CF. If CF is the easiest position to play, then why are most bad OF's playing LF? Example...Rondell White, Manny Ramirez, Canseco when he played...Why did Biggio go from CF to LF? Why was Knoblauch a LF and not a CF?

 

Then let me ask you this....why are the BEST OF's in the game playing CF? Torrii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Bernie for so many years, Griffey when he was right. Darren Lewis (most consecutive games played without an error). Johnny Damon, Jim Edmonds. Why was Coco Crisp a LF in Cleveland? Because he struggled in CF.

 

LF is the easiest position to play, especially in Fenway. Manny Ramirez has limited ability going back on a ball, which is why he plays the monster rather than RF like he did for so many years in Cleveland.

 

I played all three and I felt that RF was the hardest, then CF....and LF was by far the easiest. In LF most batters are RH so they hit alot of balls that dont move. In RF most hitters are RH and the ball is always slicing away or hooking. CF gets a little bit of both but allows you to get good jumps. At Fenway, RF is the hardest....with the corner, the large amount of area to cover and the Sun and shadow in day games.

 

You need to be athletic to play CF, and there are not many good CF's in the game. If this is true, then how is it the easiest?

 

EDIT: CF may have been the easiest in highschool, or DIV 3 College baseball...but I think its unfair to say what is or isnt the easiest to play at the major league level. The game moves alot faster, and the players are alot better. But I do know this. In Little league, HS and College...my team always has the BEST Outfielder playing CF, and the worst playing LF. Just my experiences though.

 

By the time I was a junior in college my baseball career was finished. Yes, you put your best outfielder in CF, no argument there. I'm just telling you it is the easiest to play on the levels I played on. In college and pros it could be more difficult but the judging of the balls hit your way are still the same except for the velocity of how they are hit. By that time, though, if you are still playing that position you are also a lot better than you were in high school.