The Yankee Thread

[ORS]

I'd much rather you took Rasner to the playoffs too. He's looking like a peach tonight.

[Optimist]

I don't care what he does against Baltimore.

 

Against Minnesota (who we're more than likely going to be playing in the first round) he pitched well.

[ORS]

Despite what he did in one appearance against them, Minnesota is a better offensive team than Baltimore. Their soft spot will be pitching, and I only count two consistent, dependable pitchers. One starter, one reliever. The rest is a crap shoot, including Rasner.

[ARod2212]

Villone's been worse.

2.27 Pre All Star ERA

8.42 Post All Star ERA

 

The numbers get even uglier after that.

[a700hitter]

Randy Johnson might miss the playoffs.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6014862

 

This might actually help the Yankees by moving Wang and Moose to the first two slots in the rotation.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Randy Johnson might miss the playoffs.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6014862

 

This might actually help the Yankees by moving Wang and Moose to the first two slots in the rotation.

 

Actually, it was announced before this that Wang would be #1, Moose would be #2 and Randy would be #3.

[a700hitter]

Actually' date=' it was announced before this that Wang would be #1, Moose would be #2 and Randy would be #3.[/quote']I wonder if they made that decision, because he has become a BP pitcher. Johnson has a 7.64 ERA over his last three starts, giving up five runs each outing and failing to last longer than six innings.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

I wonder if they made that decision' date=' because he has become a BP pitcher. Johnson has a 7.64 ERA over his last three starts, giving up five runs each outing and failing to last longer than six innings.[/quote']

 

They made the decision because he had to miss his last start with back spasms. They bumped him to game three to give him more rest . I agree though it does behoove the Yankees to have him at #3.

[Optimist]

At least he's not going to be pitching for us for years to come, unlike another 'ace' for an AL East team.

[a700hitter]

At least he's not going to be pitching for us next year and years to come' date=' unlike another 'ace' for an AL East team.[/quote']Schilling will not be pitching beyond 2007.

[riverside sluggers]

At least he's not going to be pitching for us next year and years to come' date=' unlike another 'ace' for an AL East team.[/quote']

 

Yeah Beckett didnt turn things around in his 2nd half. All I heard from you guys was "haha he's going to the DL", actually he didnt. "Haha he'll never get to 200 innings"

, actually he was able to squash that excuse.

 

True Beckett had 4 bad starts in the 2nd half, 4 out of 16 and any manager would still take that. Its fine if you want to count out a 26 year old pitcher who lives on his fastball (Schilling was the same and didnt turn himself around until his late 20's). He's just adjusting to the AL, he's set to have a better season next year

 

Just taking note you think he will be like this for rest of his tenure with Boston

 

Beckett's 2nd half (sans 4 bad starts)

5-3, 3.13 ERA (12 starts)

72 innings, 57 Hits, 26 Runs (25 ER), 3 HRs, 24 Walks, 50 Ks

[Optimist]

Sorry, you can't throw out starts.

[a700hitter]

Yeah Beckett didnt turn things around in his 2nd half. All I heard from you guys was "haha he's going to the DL", actually he didnt. "Haha he'll never get to 200 innings"

, actually he was able to squash that excuse.

 

True Beckett had 4 bad starts in the 2nd half, 4 out of 16 and any manager would still take that. Its fine if you want to count out a 26 year old pitcher who lives on his fastball (Schilling was the same and didnt turn himself around until his late 20's). He's just adjusting to the AL, he's set to have a better season next year

 

Just taking note you think he will be like this for rest of his tenure with Boston

 

Beckett's 2nd half (sans 4 bad starts)

5-3, 3.13 ERA (12 starts)

72 innings, 57 Hits, 26 Runs (25 ER), 3 HRs, 24 Walks, 50 Ks

He's young and really talented, and he's still learning. He's proven that he could go 200 innings in a season without wearing down. I will not mind at all having him in the rotation for the next 3 or 4 years.

[ORS]

At least he's not going to be pitching for us for years to come' date=' unlike another 'ace' for an AL East team.[/quote']

I'll take the Marlin we got over the Marlin you did.

[Optimist]

And no one would disagree with that.

[ORS]

And no one would disagree with that.

Just proving a little perspective there, little lady in the glass house with a hand full of stones.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Just proving a little perspective there' date=' little lady in the glass house with a hand full of stones.[/quote']

 

To be fair, I believe 700 threw the first stone.

[a700hitter]

To be fair' date=' I believe 700 threw the first stone.[/quote']

Ah, but ORS threw the last one and it was a doozy.:thumbsup:

[ARod2212]

We also didn't trade anything for our Marlin. Nor did we depend upon him this year. We won the division without him. Without a good Beckett the Sox were a third place baseball team.

 

Randy Johnson had a 5.00 ERA this year, Beckett had a 5.01. Johnson had more strikeouts, fewer walks and a better WHIP. I'm not saying he had a good year, but better than your Marlin.

[Manny Goes Boom]

We also didn't trade anything for our Marlin. Nor did we depend upon him this year. We won the division without him. Without a good Beckett the Sox were a third place baseball team.

 

Randy Johnson had a 5.00 ERA this year, Beckett had a 5.01. Johnson had more strikeouts, fewer walks and a better WHIP. I'm not saying he had a good year, but better than your Marlin.

 

He was talking about Pavano.

[ORS]

We also didn't trade anything for our Marlin. Nor did we depend upon him this year. We won the division without him. Without a good Beckett the Sox were a third place baseball team.

 

Randy Johnson had a 5.00 ERA this year, Beckett had a 5.01. Johnson had more strikeouts, fewer walks and a better WHIP. I'm not saying he had a good year, but better than your Marlin.

True. That said, even at what it cost, I'd still take an inconsistent Beckett who pitched good enough times to win 16 games over a guy who's pitched 100 MLB innings in the 1st 2 years of a 4 year contract.

 

Yes, Johnson had a marginally better year, but the trends going into next year look better for Beckett.

 

Optimist's snarky post was about how she was glad she didn't have to worry about Johnson beyond next year. But, she conveniently neglected Pavano, who's been even more of a disappointment and has more time left. I only brought him up to provide perspective. What about Clement? Well, like Johnson, we don't have to worry about him beyond next year, and from the sound of things, we don't even have to worry about him next year because his shoulder is spaghetti.

[26 to 6]

Of course there's a double standard' date=' and it's because it boils down to motive. Sox fans trashing the Yankees on a Sox site aren't going out of their way to piss people off, and if Yankee fans are here, reading it, and getting upset, then they have no one to blame other than themselves. If you are a conservative, listening to Air America is only going to piss you off, so don't blame them when you do listen and get mad. Yankee fans trashing the Sox on a Sox board is an example of people seeking out a specific audience with the intent of pissing them off. Motive matters, thus the double standard.[/quote']

That's where your wrong. We weren't "trashing" the Sox on a Sox board. We were celebrating. There isn't always an alterior motive to people's actions, ya know. We, as Yankee fans are capable of being content with just our successes; not our successes packaged with your failures and difficulties. That's something the Sox fans have never figured out how to do.

 

As a Red Sox fan living in NY, what other radio station can I listen to in my car other than the Yankee Broadcast if I want to hear a Red Sox-Yankee game? You know fans of the other team listen to these broadcasts if they are in NY. I also listen to a number of Yankee games just because I am a fan and interested in the competition's game. Announcers are supposed to be somewhat objective, because they are the only voice of the game in a city or region, and not all the listeners are rooting for the home team. I don't listen to the game to hear Sterling's opinions. I listen to hear the game. That is very different than the reason why Yankee fans come to this site. You come here to read the opinions of Red Sox fans. It's much more acceptable for a fan on message boards for his/her team to be an obnoxious homer than for someone on the airwaves whose job it is to call the game and inform the listener. Can you grasp that?

I hear what your saying, and I understand where your coming from. But in being a Sox fan (or a fan of any team for that matter) in a particular region or market, that's something you have to put up with. Being a Sox fan living in NY, John Sterling and his homer tendancies are something you have to deal with, much like me being a Yankee fan here having to deal with things.

 

Today, we live in an age of technology. If you despise Sterling so much, I suggest you look into XM Radio for when you want to listen to Sox/Yankee games, or any Sox games for that matter.

 

No, frequently he leaves out important facts. It's hard to tell if it is the result of coscious or subconscious homerism or if it is just incompetence.

While you may be right in some instances, John Sterling has always been good at providing little details or facts that I, as a fan, like to know. A lot of times they'll address a particular rule or regulation and explain it in full. Or sometimes they'll give us some insight on little things that arent important enough to be written about; uniform number changes, when a recently acquired player arrives at the stadium in the middle of a game, who's old locker he has, etc. I appreciate little things like that.

 

 

 

..anyone hear anything about the postseason roster? I haven't seen it.

[ORS]

That's where your wrong. We weren't "trashing" the Sox on a Sox board. We were celebrating. There isn't always an alterior motive to people's actions' date=' ya know. We, as Yankee fans are capable of being content with just our successes; not our successes packaged with your failures and difficulties. That's something the Sox fans have never figured out how to do.[/quote']

How am I wrong? What is the motive of you guys running over to a Sox board to celebrate the Yankee season? I'll tell you what it is, it's to rub it in. Deny it all you want, but it serves no purpose other than gloating in front of the fans who's team lost.

 

If you guys are so content with just your success, why all the "Sox aren't playing in October" stuff? Why all the 3rd place comments? If you guys cared nothing about what happened to the Sox, their results wouldn't get mentioned.

 

Face it, the Yankee fan base is just as obsessed with Sox failure as the Sox fan base is with Yankee failure. You as an individual might not be, but that's not how you phrase it. You say "we" are this, "you" are that. Those are gross generalizations that are unsubstantiated by what occurs on these boards.

 

Personally, I agree with you. I think more fan bases should be focussed on their team. But, I'm not so blinded by my allegiance to a fan base to not recognize that it has all the same faults as other fan bases. Know why that is? All of them are made up of people, and big groups of people tend result in similar composition, especially when the groups are made up of people from varied socio-economic and political backgrounds, like sports teams' fanbases are. This is why they poll large groups of people around election time in order to get a model of how the whole population will vote.

 

And, this is why I have taken serious issue with you on so many occasions. You actually believe the Yankee fan base, as a group, is superior to the Sox fan base. Got news for you, kid. It's no different.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

How am I wrong? What is the motive of you guys running over to a Sox board to celebrate the Yankee season? I'll tell you what it is, it's to rub it in. Deny it all you want, but it serves no purpose other than gloating in front of the fans who's team lost.

 

We're not "running over" here. We've been here all year. We were here when we were in 2nd place, and we are here now that we finished first. That's why the purpose of us celebrating is not just to gloat. We are here celebrating when the Yankees succeed AND we are here eating crow when they fail.

 

If you guys are so content with just your success, why all the "Sox aren't playing in October" stuff? Why all the 3rd place comments? If you guys cared nothing about what happened to the Sox, their results wouldn't get mentioned.

 

I know for me I mention that stuff after someone bashes either the Yankees or me personally first.

[26 to 6]

How am I wrong? What is the motive of you guys running over to a Sox board to celebrate the Yankee season? I'll tell you what it is, it's to rub it in. Deny it all you want, but it serves no purpose other than gloating in front of the fans who's team lost.

We don't "run over to a Sox board" to celebrate. This is the board that I primarily post on. This is where i've been for the past 1 2/3 seasons. And I will deny it, because that really wasn't the motive. Honestly, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I know for me personally that wasn't my motive. In fact, I didn't even mention the division win until I made that post with the pictures of the Yankees celebrating, where at that point I was trying to rub it in. But only because there were a handful of Sox fans being pricks about harmless celebrating on the part of some fellow-Yankee fans here.

 

If you guys are so content with just your success, why all the "Sox aren't playing in October" stuff? Why all the 3rd place comments? If you guys cared nothing about what happened to the Sox, their results wouldn't get mentioned.

Direct me to where I said anythig like that. If I did (which I honestly don't think I did. If I did I forgot) I guarantee that it was AFTER the handful of Sox fans came into the thread and started bashing us for celebrating.

 

Face it, the Yankee fan base is just as obsessed with Sox failure as the Sox fan base is with Yankee failure. You as an individual might not be, but that's not how you phrase it. You say "we" are this, "you" are that. Those are gross generalizations that are unsubstantiated by what occurs on these boards.

It MAY HAVE evolved to that now, but in general we are nowhere near as "obsessed" with Sox failure as you guys are with Yankee failure. I can recognize that it has become that way in recent years, but mainly by the general, casual, know-nothing fan who watching maybe 10-20 games a year. And the only reason it has become anything like that at all is because it's the example that they see set by Red Sox fans with the recent spark of the rivalry in the past 3-4 years or so, and the fact that the two teams have been so competitive in the division races. Red Sox fans have ALWAYS been obsessed with the Yankees and their failures. I remember being in Boston in 2000, 11 years old, and just seeing how misrebly obsessed with the Yankees the Red Sox fans were. I was aware that the two teams were rivals, but until then I didn't realize how serious it was. Red Sox fans have always gotten pleasure out of looking up at the out-of-town scoreboard and seeing a Yankee loss. I can't say that we, as Yankee fans are innocent of that, but it's only because for the last few years you guys have been right behind us in the standings. Trust me, up until about 2002-2003 we could care less what happened with you guys aside from when we played you. We weren't scoreboard watching for a Red Sox loss, it was usually an Oriole loss that gave us pleasure, but only because they were the team we were competiting with in the division. So to say that we are "just as obsessed with Sox failure as the Sox fan base is with Yankee failure" is a ridiculous statement.

 

And, this is why I have taken serious issue with you on so many occasions. You actually believe the Yankee fan base, as a group, is superior to the Sox fan base. Got news for you, kid. It's no different.

Trust me, I understand how it can be perceived that way. But don't neglect the countless times i've criticized the Yankee fan base. There is no doubt that the casual Yankee fan base is just absolutely TERRIBLE; maybe among the worst fans in sports. But when it comes to die-hard Yankee fans, I sincerely believe that there are no better fans. When I refer to the Yankee fan base, these are the people I am talking about.

 

Now that isn't anything against other great fan-bases. The die-hard Red Sox fans, in particular are also GREAT fans. Same for the Mets, Reds, Tigers, Cubs, etc.

[ORS]

It MAY HAVE evolved to that now' date=' but in general we are nowhere near as "obsessed" with Sox failure as you guys are with Yankee failure. I can recognize that it has become that way in recent years, but mainly by the general, casual, know-nothing fan who watching maybe 10-20 games a year. And the only reason it has become anything like that at all is because it's the example that they see set by Red Sox fans with the recent spark of the rivalry in the past 3-4 years or so, and the fact that the two teams have been so competitive in the division races. Red Sox fans have ALWAYS been obsessed with the Yankees and their failures. I remember being in Boston in 2000, 11 years old, and just seeing how misrebly obsessed with the Yankees the Red Sox fans were. I was aware that the two teams were rivals, but until then I didn't realize how serious it was. Red Sox fans have always gotten pleasure out of looking up at the out-of-town scoreboard and seeing a Yankee loss. I can't say that we, as Yankee fans are innocent of that, but it's only because for the last few years you guys have been right behind us in the standings. Trust me, up until about 2002-2003 we could care less what happened with you guys aside from when we played you. We weren't scoreboard watching for a Red Sox loss, it was usually an Oriole loss that gave us pleasure, but only because they were the team we were competiting with in the division. So to say that we are "just as obsessed with Sox failure as the Sox fan base is with Yankee failure" is a ridiculous statement.[/quote']

Ridiculous means worthy of ridicule. Things that are ridiculed are unreasonable. My belief that the levels of obsession are the same is reasonable, so find a new word, you don't know how/when to use this one.

 

You even said the level of the obsession is similar now in your attempt to defend an indefensible position, and you hit right on the reason for it, the Red Sox have been good recently. In your life, the Yankees haven't been a bad ball club. So, in your life, you've seen Sox fans interested in the the results of Yankee games. It wasn't that way in the late 80's and early 90's when the Yankees weren't perennial contenders. It has to do with the level of play. When the Yankees aren't any good, Sox fans won't look too hard at the scoreboard, but they will make some cracks about the misfortunes of the rival. When the Sox aren't any good, Yankee fans won't look too hard at the scoreboard, but they will make some cracks about the misfortune of the rival. And, the same thing goes for opposite sides of any rivalry. In the end, fan bases are still just groups of people, and, well, groups of people just aren't that much different.

 

Trust me, I understand how it can be perceived that way. But don't neglect the countless times i've criticized the Yankee fan base. There is no doubt that the casual Yankee fan base is just absolutely TERRIBLE; maybe among the worst fans in sports. But when it comes to die-hard Yankee fans, I sincerely believe that there are no better fans. When I refer to the Yankee fan base, these are the people I am talking about.

Therein lies the root of the problem. As long as you hold on to the belief that the die-hards of your fanbase are better than the die-hards of another, you'll never see the reality of the situation.

[26 to 6]

You even said the level of the obsession is similar now in your attempt to defend an indefensible position, and you hit right on the reason for it, the Red Sox have been good recently. In your life, the Yankees haven't been a bad ball club. So, in your life, you've seen Sox fans interested in the the results of Yankee games. It wasn't that way in the late 80's and early 90's when the Yankees weren't perennial contenders. It has to do with the level of play. When the Yankees aren't any good, Sox fans won't look too hard at the scoreboard, but they will make some cracks about the misfortunes of the rival. When the Sox aren't any good, Yankee fans won't look too hard at the scoreboard, but they will make some cracks about the misfortune of the rival. And, the same thing goes for opposite sides of any rivalry. In the end, fan bases are still just groups of people, and, well, groups of people just aren't that much different.

You hit that on the head of the nail.

 

But excuse me, for several years when the Yankees were good, the Red Sox were not and had no reason to look at the scoreboard, hence no excuse for their "obsessive" behaivor. And yes, in the early '90s I did see this type of behaivor from Red Sox fans. Not to the degree as today, but I still saw it.

 

Therein lies the root of the problem. As long as you hold on to the belief that the die-hards of your fanbase are better than the die-hards of another, you'll never see the reality of the situation.

Well whatever. I don't feel that way about fanbases in general. but about the die-hard fans. That statement was obviously made with a little bit of bias, but I truly feel that way growing up in a family that loves the Yankees.

 

But lets get real, you can't tell me that you don't think die-hard Yankee fans are better than die-hard Royal/Angel/Mariner fans.

[schillingouttheks]

But lets get real' date=' you can't tell me that you don't think die-hard Yankee fans are better than die-hard Royal/Angel/Mariner fans.[/quote']

 

How do you know? When you start judging the diehard fans of a team you're talking out of your ass. You can't possibly know what all diehard fans are like. You know what the general fanbase is like because there's a trend in behavior among the majority of them.

[CrespoBlows]

Keyword: Diehard.

 

Fans that live and die with their team. Just because the Yankees outnumber the Marlins they're better fans? That makes little sense.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Dunno, but f*** a rod.