Sox continue to try to deal Manny

[MC Hammer]

keep laughing. If you are too low functioning to understand the farm system philosophy of the yankees, then you should keep on laughing. That is what dumb people usually do when they are put in situations where their lack of brain capacity causes them disability. It's ok, why dont you sit this one out son.

 

As I have said many times, the yankee philosophy per cashman is to build from within with young guys, high school guys. They dont mature as fast as the college guys as evidence by the list I posted in the general forum. So a high school guy has about 7 years to make it to the bigs before he is labelled a bust, whereas the typical college kid has 2-3 yrs to really make his hay. The college kids are usually thrust quickly through the system, most of them starting in high A or AA whereas high school players stay in rookie ball and work their way up one league at a time. Unfortunately, after 2002 the yankees farm system was completely barren. Our top picks from previous yrs were either traded or fizzled and we were left with nothing. That is when the yankees started the high school drafting philosophy. So this is now 3 full drafts after that time and their low A and this yr their high A level will be stacked. 2 guys from those drafts moved past the pack and are in AAA (Duncan) and AA (Hughes) respectively. The rest are right about on target. Also, high school kids generally have less of a guarantee of making the bigs, but the best MLBers are mostly former high school picks, so the gamble can payoff huge. The red sox had a barren system at that time too, but they went the college route. Those kids should be ready in the next yr or so and all of the big namers are in AA or above. They are older, more mature, and better players at this junction, but their ceiling, as evidenced by the espn article on hs draftees vs college draftees, is lower than the high schooll guys. Overall, the sox and yankees have different philosophies, and if you do not know the philosophy and you blatantly look at the wrong levels, you wont be able to assess the farm system propoerly. Is the yankee farm system good, yeah overall. Is it ready to produce any MLB talent this yr, NO. Will it be ready to produce MLB talent next yr, possibly...

I really fear a Yankee farm system that's traded away every major prospect they've had for the last decade.

 

Don't pretend like all the sudden the Yankees are going to worry about their farm system. The only reason the Yankees are still developing these prospects is so they can trade them for a 30 something when they're ready.

[TheRivernator]

I really fear a Yankee farm system that's traded away every major prospect they've had for the last decade.

 

Don't pretend like all the sudden the Yankees are going to worry about their farm system. The only reason the Yankees are still developing these prospects is so they can trade them for a 30 something when they're ready.

 

another symptom of serious stupidity is the inability to have abstract thought, rather sticking with one theory and not being able to think around it.

 

So the yankee farm system is no good because they will trade them all away anyway?? That makes no sense. Might they trade them, good possibility, does that really matter when assessing the farm system that they have right now, NO. BTW, Cashman had commodities that many teams wanted and he held onto them. I think the power struggle that he won vs George will ultimately make the yankees a better team in the long run. Our farm system had guys that could have been traded this offseason, but he held off because he wants to grow the system...

[MC Hammer]

another symptom of serious stupidity is the inability to have abstract thought, rather sticking with one theory and not being able to think around it.

 

So the yankee farm system is no good because they will trade them all away anyway?? That makes no sense. Might they trade them, good possibility, does that really matter when assessing the farm system that they have right now, NO. BTW, Cashman had commodities that many teams wanted and he held onto them. I think the power struggle that he won vs George will ultimately make the yankees a better team in the long run. Our farm system had guys that could have been traded this offseason, but he held off because he wants to grow the system...

Well you're talking about how the Yankee farm system is growing and developing itself but it's not. It's just developing talent to a point, like it has for years, just to trade them away.

 

You're right ... I really struggle with abstract thought ..... especially when it's the Yankees, and they've done the same thing for as long as I can remember.

 

While some teams may have been interested in some of the Yankee prospects they probably weren't able to offer enough for the Yankees to bite. Don't just assume Cashman didn't make the deal because he's growing the system ... maybe he just couldn't get enough.

[TheRivernator]

Well you're talking about how the Yankee farm system is growing and developing itself but it's not. It's just developing talent to a point, like it has for years, just to trade them away.

 

You're right ... I really struggle with abstract thought ..... especially when it's the Yankees, and they've done the same thing for as long as I can remember.

 

While some teams may have been interested in some of the Yankee prospects they probably weren't able to offer enough for the Yankees to bite. Don't just assume Cashman didn't make the deal because he's growing the system ... maybe he just couldn't get enough.

 

okay, sorry for the outbursts I am at work again.....

 

Okay, the yankees previous MO has been to deal away rookies for marginal MLBers. I think this offseason proved that we wont do it for marginal players. It might get harder to deal with us for awhile, but so be it. The yankees used to take anybody who could play for every rookie in the system, but cashman stopped that this offseason. We could have had hunter for cano or hughes and we didnt pull the trigger....

[ORS]

another symptom of serious stupidity is the inability to have abstract thought, rather sticking with one theory and not being able to think around it.

This is funny coming from you. You have demonstrated this very quality countless times in your analysis* of current Sox and Yankee players by ignorantly assuming that last year's stats are absolute while ignoring career averages. Loretta, Lowell, Schilling, et al are going to suck because they had a rough year last year despite their career norms, while Cano, Chacon, and Wang are clearly stars because they played well last year despite their performances being completely above and beyond their career averages (for Wang and Cano it is their MiLB stats adjusted for MLE).

 

* Calling what you have done "analysis" is a gift on my part; you should thank me.

[TheRivernator]

This is funny coming from you. You have demonstrated this very quality countless times in your analysis* of current Sox and Yankee players by ignorantly assuming that last year's stats are absolute while ignoring career averages. Loretta, Lowell, Schilling, et al are going to suck because they had a rough year last year despite their career norms, while Cano, Chacon, and Wang are clearly stars because they played well last year despite their performances being completely above and beyond their career averages (for Wang and Cano it is their MiLB stats adjusted for MLE).

 

* Calling what you have done "analysis" is a gift on my part; you should thank me.

keep up the delusions son, soon the truth will come out. You can rip me all you want if you are right....

[riverside sluggers]

it is true, Small & Chacon pretty much have been unknowns with unimpressive stats before last season. How can their career stats be just dismissed as easily?

[TheRivernator]

it is true, Small & Chacon pretty much have been unknowns with unimpressive stats before last season. How can their career stats be just dismissed as easily?

 

I never made a prediction on small. He'll be a long reliever.

 

Chacon on the other hand was an allstar in colorado, then was moved to reliever in 04. Last yr he had a good era for colorado before he was dealt. That's the thing, you never know what you will get from a pitcher when they leave the high altitude. Chacon gained inches on his curveball and I must say it is a devastating pitch....

[ORS]

keep up the delusions son, soon the truth will come out. You can rip me all you want if you are right....

Son? I'm likely older than you are. Delusions? HA! At least my analysis recognizes the fact that career averages are relevant.

 

delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.

 

In spite of career averages, you continue to hold your false belief. Now who's being delusional?

[TheRivernator]

Son? I'm likely older than you are. Delusions? HA! At least my analysis recognizes the fact that career averages are relevant.

 

delusion: A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence.

 

In spite of career averages, you continue to hold your false belief. Now who's being delusional?

 

in spite of recent evidence, you keep holding onto the past. We can twist this any way you like. Maybe you just have an adjustment disorder...

[riverside sluggers]

I was just wondering, when was on the all-star team. As it stands right now, he holds a 31-48 record, meaning he'd have to go 17-0 just to be a .500 pitcher and 3 of his 5 seasons has produced ERA's over 5. As it stands right now along with Chacon's stats against Boston, Im just not scared of him

 

That's the thing, you never know what you will get from a pitcher when they leave the high altitude. Chacon gained inches on his curveball and I must say it is a devastating pitch....

 

or about 3 dead pull hitters who leave pitcher's parks for Fenway Park? Oh thats right, it wont change anything

[ORS]

I never made a prediction on small. He'll be a long reliever.

 

Chacon on the other hand was an allstar in colorado, then was moved to reliever in 04. Last yr he had a good era for colorado before he was dealt. That's the thing, you never know what you will get from a pitcher when they leave the high altitude. Chacon gained inches on his curveball and I must say it is a devastating pitch....

He also had a .240 BABIP, whereas his road average while in Colorado was .280. His 2.85 ERA in NY becomes 4.57 when you adjust for his career average. Oh that's right, career averages mean nothing to you. Oh well, we'll see how that ERA holds up when it regresses to the norm, and it always does.

[TheRivernator]

I was just wondering, when was on the all-star team. As it stands right now, he holds a 31-48 record, meaning he'd have to go 17-0 just to be a .500 pitcher and 3 of his 5 seasons has produced ERA's over 5. As it stands right now along with Chacon's stats against Boston, Im just not scared of him

 

 

 

or about 3 dead pull hitters who leave pitcher's parks for Fenway Park? Oh thats right, it wont change anything

 

the ball will still carry the same....

[ORS]

in spite of recent evidence, you keep holding onto the past. We can twist this any way you like. Maybe you just have an adjustment disorder...

Recent evidence? As in, stats accumulated while playing hurt. Yeah, those are certainly valid. Nice try.

[MC Hammer]

Rivernator ... you have 0 credibility here as we've all seen you talk out of your ass about every memeber of the Red Sox, and Yankees. Just stop posting because everything you say from now until the end of time will be disputed and discredited.

[TheRivernator]

He also had a .240 BABIP, whereas his road average while in Colorado was .280. His 2.85 ERA in NY becomes 4.57 when you adjust for his career average. Oh that's right, career averages mean nothing to you. Oh well, we'll see how that ERA holds up when it regresses to the norm, and it always does.

 

Not always. Colorado does some bad things to pitchers. It not only cuts down their arsenal, but it cuts down their confidence in their pitches. His curveball is one of the best from a righty that I have seen in a long time, but it is his only plus pitch. You take that from him and he is a FB/changeup guy without a fast fastball and with a mediocre change. If he was cutting his curve out of his arsenal because it wasnt breaking then he would be a pedestrian pitcher even when he played on the road. Once he resumed using it regularly, he had success. We'll see, I am not 100% convinced on him, but last yrs playoffs and his performances under pressure really impressed me....

[riverside sluggers]

the ball will still carry the same....

 

so the balls that Loretta, Lowell & Gonzo hit towards left field in PETCO Park & Dolphins stadium that were caught at the wall or warning track.... is what will happen in Fenway? Is this just false hopesof yours? If those 3 have produced averages of 30 Doubles a season, then they are going to be a bust in Fenway? yeah thats a good one haha

[MC Hammer]

Not always. Colorado does some bad things to pitchers. It not only cuts down their arsenal, but it cuts down their confidence in their pitches. His curveball is one of the best from a righty that I have seen in a long time, but it is his only plus pitch. You take that from him and he is a FB/changeup guy without a fast fastball and with a mediocre change. If he was cutting his curve out of his arsenal because it wasnt breaking then he would be a pedestrian pitcher even when he played on the road. Once he resumed using it regularly, he had success. We'll see, I am not 100% convinced on him, but last yrs playoffs and his performances under pressure really impressed me....

is there a Yankee dick you wont suck?

[ORS]

Not always. Colorado does some bad things to pitchers. It not only cuts down their arsenal, but it cuts down their confidence in their pitches. His curveball is one of the best from a righty that I have seen in a long time, but it is his only plus pitch. You take that from him and he is a FB/changeup guy without a fast fastball and with a mediocre change. If he was cutting his curve out of his arsenal because it wasnt breaking then he would be a pedestrian pitcher even when he played on the road. Once he resumed using it regularly, he had success. We'll see, I am not 100% convinced on him, but last yrs playoffs and his performances under pressure really impressed me....

BABIP is the stat that pitchers/hitters have the least control over. It fluctuates drastically from year to year for both. Once a player has a sample size large enough to establish a career average, it generally fluctuates .020 higher or lower. It is one of the reasons that I feel Lowell can bounce back. His career average is .285, but he only had a .253 last year. They try and hit 'em where they ain't, but you are talking about fractions of inches at the point of contact that can have a huge affect on where the ball ends up.

[TheRivernator]

is there a Yankee dick you wont suck?

 

I expected so much from you. I see the remedial classes let you out early. Those with miniature mental capacities usually respond with frank vulgar without a logical explanation to follow it....

[ksushi]

What the hell are you talking about? I hope you're not trying to sound smart right now because you just sounded like a total jack ass. Listen, sure being a yankee's fan is all good and well, but you're abnoxious about it and you're an embarrassment to yankees fans everywhere. If you were a Red Sox fan, I would be saying the same thing if you talked endlessly about how you expect 50 home runs from alex gonzalez this season and that you were really impressed with Matt Clements playoff attitude.

 

I assume you were talking about Chacon, he was a garbage heap signing and they caught lightning in a bottle. The thing is, usually guys like that come back to reality the next season. Aaron Small is not going to go 10-0 this year, Chacon is going to show why he was on the garbage heap to begin with, and chances are Tanyan Sturtze will show that Tampa Bay touch he has again this year. Granted, I am a biased sox fan, and I don't like you so I will try to disagree with everything you say.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the usual yankee-hating sox fan. I love Derek Jeter and Rivera and whitey ford is one of my favorite all time players. I say when I think the sox are going to bomb, and I admit when the yankees one up the Red Sox, but you annoy me. You pull things out of your ass and bother me. I don't know why I am still ranting, and to be honest, you're probably not even going to read this since I'm pretty sure you're one of those members that avoids reading big posts, but yeah... I'm all done now.

 

Summary: Stop being a jerk, stop ranting about stupid yankee-crap, and stop being a tool. Shawn Chacon is trash, his curve really isn't that good.

 

/babble.

[TheRivernator]

What the hell are you talking about? I hope you're not trying to sound smart right now because you just sounded like a total jack ass. Listen, sure being a yankee's fan is all good and well, but you're abnoxious about it and you're an embarrassment to yankees fans everywhere. If you were a Red Sox fan, I would be saying the same thing if you talked endlessly about how you expect 50 home runs from alex gonzalez this season and that you were really impressed with Matt Clements playoff attitude.

 

I assume you were talking about Chacon, he was a garbage heap signing and they caught lightning in a bottle. The thing is, usually guys like that come back to reality the next season. Aaron Small is not going to go 10-0 this year, Chacon is going to show why he was on the garbage heap to begin with, and chances are Tanyan Sturtze will show that Tampa Bay touch he has again this year. Granted, I am a biased sox fan, and I don't like you so I will try to disagree with everything you say.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the usual yankee-hating sox fan. I love Derek Jeter and Rivera and whitey ford is one of my favorite all time players. I say when I think the sox are going to bomb, and I admit when the yankees one up the Red Sox, but you annoy me. You pull things out of your ass and bother me. I don't know why I am still ranting, and to be honest, you're probably not even going to read this since I'm pretty sure you're one of those members that avoids reading big posts, but yeah... I'm all done now.

 

Summary: Stop being a jerk, stop ranting about stupid yankee-crap, and stop being a tool. Shawn Chacon is trash, his curve really isn't that good.

 

/babble.

 

Well again, I see the masses have put forth another mental midget. Sigh. Stop ranting about the stupid yankee crap? Well, maybe if some posters on this site had their s*** straight then I wouldnt have to rant, think of that one there kpussy? Does anyone actually read my posts or do you just see my name and disagree with everything I say.

 

I never said chacon would be great, I only said that his numbers were tainted because he was in colorado, and last yr may have been his true numebrs. Also, he was an allstar one yr, was converted to a closer the next (and sucked at it btw), then resumed starting. He was 1-8 in colorado but his era was 4.05ish before coming to the yankees. He came to NY, he got his curve back and he was very good. That is indisputeable because it is the truth.

 

BTW, have you ever watched him more than once? How do you know how good his curve is? This is the s*** that gets me ranting. Making dumbass statements without basis just to be a sox homer. Wake the f*** up and actually act like you have completed more than 3 grades of organized schooling, my 8 yr old cousin can have a better argument....

[VA Sox Fan]

Well again, I see the masses have put forth another mental midget. Sigh. Stop ranting about the stupid yankee crap? Well, maybe if some posters on this site had their s*** straight then I wouldnt have to rant, think of that one there kpussy? Does anyone actually read my posts or do you just see my name and disagree with everything I say.

 

I never said chacon would be great, I only said that his numbers were tainted because he was in colorado, and last yr may have been his true numebrs. Also, he was an allstar one yr, was converted to a closer the next (and sucked at it btw), then resumed starting. He was 1-8 in colorado but his era was 4.05ish before coming to the yankees. He came to NY, he got his curve back and he was very good. That is indisputeable because it is the truth.

 

BTW, have you ever watched him more than once? How do you know how good his curve is? This is the s*** that gets me ranting. Making dumbass statements without basis just to be a sox homer. Wake the f*** up and actually act like you have completed more than 3 grades of organized schooling, my 8 yr old cousin can have a better argument....

 

See guys, on the BH forum TheRivernator was one of the youngest posters out there, 24-25 yrs old, I think? So he wasn't quite as obnoxious as he is out here, it's almost like he's a different person. With so many of you being teenagers, I think he feels a little superior.

 

Seriously mj, you need to chill out. These people have been here a lot longer than we have and you can disagreee in a more civil manner instead of being so condescending and s*****. Work on your bedside manner dude! They won't hesitate to ban you again.

[MC Hammer]

I expected so much from you. I see the remedial classes let you out early. Those with miniature mental capacities usually respond with frank vulgar without a logical explanation to follow it....

Gee I dont understand any of those words Mr. English ... but my names Frank .... does that count?

 

Dude everyone thinks you're a tool.

[ksushi]

I'm not going to bother to further this past this post, but really calling me a Sox homer of all people is pretty ignorant. I'm sure you've not payed attention to a word I have posted on this site, and I assume my last post was right when I wrote a little blurb about you probably not reading it. I've watched Chacon many times, in Col and in NY, I watch A LOT of baseball, I don't think his curve is very impressive. It's got movement but he doesn't control it well and breaks early out of his hand. Its a tigher break, sure, but he rarely can use it as an outpitch just because he is a little wild with it, always has been. Look, I'm not trying to get into an internet brawl here, put the dictionary down and relax a little.

 

The only 'mental midget' here really seems to be you. Notice how the only one throwing insults like 'kpussy' and referring to people's 'miniature mental capacity' is you. Thats because the rest of us have gone through puberty and have grown up.

 

This is a baseball forum, if people don't agree with you, and laugh at you for practically inducting every one on the Yankee's 40 man roster into the Hall of Fame, deal with it. Don't stoop to throwing insults around because then no one will read your posts. That is when people will see your name and skip over posts. Don't bother to follow this up, there isn't any reason to keep this going. Branding everyone as an 8 year old mental midget and repeating yourself gets old after a couple pages so lets call it a thread and bury this. No more being a jackass and embarrasing yourself.

[Cityofchampions33]

Jesus Rivernator, over the past few weeks since you've been here there have been more Yanks-Sox fights than in the year before hand. It's always a f***in argument with you, just shut up and try to stay on topic, I'm not sayin you start every argument but you certainly don't help at all. Learn to coincide with us Sox fans like the other Yanks fans who actually do good for the forums. When theres a time for a Yanks-Sox fight then there's a time but not in every thread that starts out with The Sox trying to deal Manny.

 

Everyone just drop it and get back on topic, if you all wanna fight then create a new thread in the fights n crap, and what the hell I'll join in.

[papi PaPi PAPI111]

NO! Manny i think isnt goin to b delt n e where. manny b in manny man:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

ne wayz, the beantown(lol) red soxs are goin to be good thius year, lovely rivalry, 4th best in all of sportz.

[stocker323]

NO! Manny i think isnt goin to b delt n e where. manny b in manny man:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

ne wayz, the beantown(lol) red soxs are goin to be good thius year, lovely rivalry, 4th best in all of sportz.

 

What?

[VA Sox Fan]

What?

 

 

Yeah....exactly.....

[example1]

NO! Manny i think isnt goin to b delt n e where. manny b in manny man:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

ne wayz, the beantown(lol) red soxs are goin to be good thius year, lovely rivalry, 4th best in all of sportz.

 

Hey Papi, CHILL OUT WITH THE SMILES AND THE THUMBS UP AND ALL THAT MAN!! Either slow down and make good posts or just go post in one of the topics that nobody reads... like, say, ANDREA BOCELLI (in the fights and crap section) or "Yo Yo Yo" also on the fights and crap page (page 11 I believe).

 

At least write in semi-complete sentences and chill out with all the abbreviations.

 

Am I the only one who is driven crazy by that s***? I hope not.