mota fails physical, crisp deal off

[jsinger121]

i hope we get crisp and dont get gonzalez. gonzalez just because he hit over 20 homers once means nothing. he has career .291 obp compared to cora who has a .310 career obp. gonzalez is by far not the superior hitter. he may be good in the field but for the money he is asking for I will pass because its not worth the commitment.

[26 to 6]

marte but is fine prospect but there are alot better prospects than him......delmon young, brandon wood, justin upton, bj upton, stephen drew, etc.....i love marte and i agree i want to keep him if we can revive this reds 3 way deal.

Right, I agree that Delmon Young is a very good prospect, possibly better than Marte. But I dont see how you can make those statements aboutthe Upton family. B.J who has been tabbed the Shortstop of the future for the Devil Rays for going on 10 years now will hit his 6-year Free Agency period before taking over full time (I hope not, I do like B.J., plays hard. Hopefully gets a real shot this year) and Justin has never played a professional ballgame in his life.

[jsinger121]

BA america already has Justin Upton ahead of Andy Marte in their Top 100. He is that good of a player even if he has not played a professional game.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

i hope we get crisp and dont get gonzalez. gonzalez just because he hit over 20 homers once means nothing. he has career .291 obp compared to cora who has a .310 career obp. gonzalez is by far not the superior hitter. he may be good in the field but for the money he is asking for I will pass because its not worth the commitment.

 

.291 compared to .310...what the hell is the difference?? Thats so stupid.

 

the defense between the two is big and thats more important. I wouldn't worry so much about money either cause I'm sure the Red Sox can afford it. Not to mention we are talking about a two year commitment?? God help us if we have to give a guy 2 years in a contract. This is not a big contract, its not a lot of money, and its a SS who gives us superior defense (again more important at the SS position then offense) and has experience in winning a World Series. Sounds good to me.

[jsinger121]

not for the money it isn't cora is solid defensively and will be at least 3 million dollars cheaper. that money can go to other things instead of alex gonzalez. i would rather use the money not spent on alex gonzalez and invest it on signing high impact players that fall in the draft.

[guapo34]

not for the money it isn't cora is solid defensively and will be at least 3 million dollars cheaper. that money can go to other things instead of alex gonzalez. i would rather use the money not spent on alex gonzalez and invest it on signing high impact players that fall in the draft.

 

Gonzalez upside offensively is much higher. In 2004 he hit 23 home runs with florida as his home park. There are reports he was hurt last year and his power numbers should go up from his 5 home runs and .368 slugging. He's also believed to be better defensively than Cora. It seems we can get this guy cheap. Who else needs a starting SS anyway? One year for $3 million isn't bad.

 

As for the draft, I think the Sox are definately going to spend some money on some tough signs regardless of what happens with Gonzalez. We saved money by trading edgar, and we saved money by letting Damon walk. If we trade Wells or Clement thats more money saved.

[Manny Goes Boom]

Right, I agree that Delmon Young is a very good prospect, possibly better than Marte. But I dont see how you can make those statements aboutthe Upton family. B.J who has been tabbed the Shortstop of the future for the Devil Rays for going on 10 years now will hit his 6-year Free Agency period before taking over full time (I hope not, I do like B.J., plays hard. Hopefully gets a real shot this year) and Justin has never played a professional ballgame in his life.

 

Isn't he like 18 or 19 years old? Kinda young to judge him yet I agree with you 26 to 6, can't say one way or the other yet.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

not for the money it isn't cora is solid defensively and will be at least 3 million dollars cheaper. that money can go to other things instead of alex gonzalez. i would rather use the money not spent on alex gonzalez and invest it on signing high impact players that fall in the draft.

 

We aren't a low market team. I guarantee the Red Sox could sign Alex Gonzalez along with other players. Right now the money needs to be spent on a SS and CF if possible. Who have we spent big money on in the offseason? Nobody...the Red Sox have money and signing Gonzo to a contract won't put us back. Its not a hard player to sign its not exactly over priced for the defense he could bring to our team. I think you would find that on a full time basis Alex Cora would really struggle at SS. He is best used as a utility infielder...not as an everyday starter and thats what Gonzo is.

 

Its also not a sure thing he wants 2 years 10 million...spring training is coming up and he isn't signed...its possible nobody is willing to pay that and we could get him cheaper. Perhaps playing for us interests him since we have Mota, Beckett, and Lowell.

[ORS]

Don't you think Aaron Boone is a better option than Adam Stern though? I would much rather go into a season with Aaron Boone as my 3B than with Stern as my CF. Otherwise, though, I can see why CLE would be a little desperate too. I wouldn't want EITHER in my potent/high-powered offense to be quite honest.

 

I think initially CLE was in a position of power, and now they may have shot themselves in the foot. I'm not mad about utilizing someone not named Crisp in CF. I'm not willing to watch the sox get hosed on a deal including much more than Marte and Mota for Crisp +.

No, I don't think Boone is significantly better than Stern. It's no stretch to think Stern could put up a .250/.310/.390 line. I know that isn't great, but it would be good for roughly a 95 OPS+ (Boone's career OPS+ is 96). Plus, Stern plays better defense at a more important defensive position. Boone sucks, Cleveland knows it, but they got greedy thinking Boston is desperate for a CF. The deal on the table was a very good one for them; they should have just taken it.

[jsinger121]

We aren't a low market team. I guarantee the Red Sox could sign Alex Gonzalez along with other players. Right now the money needs to be spent on a SS and CF if possible. Who have we spent big money on in the offseason? Nobody...the Red Sox have money and signing Gonzo to a contract won't put us back. Its not a hard player to sign its not exactly over priced for the defense he could bring to our team. I think you would find that on a full time basis Alex Cora would really struggle at SS. He is best used as a utility infielder...not as an everyday starter and thats what Gonzo is.

 

Its also not a sure thing he wants 2 years 10 million...spring training is coming up and he isn't signed...its possible nobody is willing to pay that and we could get him cheaper. Perhaps playing for us interests him since we have Mota, Beckett, and Lowell.

 

I'd rather hand the SS job to Pedroia over bringing in Alex Gonzalez. I don't like gonzalez. I think he sucks as a ballplayer. He can't hit. He is not much of an upgrade from Cora.

[elsrbueno]

We aren't a low market team. I guarantee the Red Sox could sign Alex Gonzalez along with other players. Right now the money needs to be spent on a SS and CF if possible. Who have we spent big money on in the offseason? Nobody...the Red Sox have money and signing Gonzo to a contract won't put us back. Its not a hard player to sign its not exactly over priced for the defense he could bring to our team. I think you would find that on a full time basis Alex Cora would really struggle at SS. He is best used as a utility infielder...not as an everyday starter and thats what Gonzo is.

 

Its also not a sure thing he wants 2 years 10 million...spring training is coming up and he isn't signed...its possible nobody is willing to pay that and we could get him cheaper. Perhaps playing for us interests him since we have Mota, Beckett, and Lowell.

 

SITN-- I agree with you 100%. We're not talking about dumping $20 million on Manny v2 here.

 

Alex Gonzalez is a GOLD GLOVE caliber shortstop. He's one of the best defensive players at shortstop, one of the most important defensive positions. Adding him for $5 million/year is absolutely worth it IMO.

 

I'll agree that his bat is inconsistent at best, but look at his line last year in an off year:

.264/.319/.368. Not great, playing half his games in Florida, one of the worst hitters' parks in baseball, has to contribute to that. Plus, compare that line to what another shortstop who was absolutely BELOVED in Boston did last year: .257/.309/.365

 

Hmm.... that "other" shortstop, who's name is Orlando Cabrera, is being paid $8 million a year. While he's exciting to watch, his defense isn't even close to Alex Gonzalez'. I loved Orlando Cabrera and if you look back at my pre-2005 posts I was dissapointed to see him leave as I'm sure quite a few of us were-- but Alex Gonzalez is arguably a better player, for less money.... Plus, a 2 year commitment means even if he does suck he's not a drag on your payroll....

[elsrbueno]

I'd rather hand the SS job to Pedroia over bringing in Alex Gonzalez. I don't like gonzalez. I think he sucks as a ballplayer. He can't hit. He is not much of an upgrade from Cora.

 

I apologize for the double post.

 

Since when does hitting make you a "ballplayer?" There's a reason why guys like David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez (The Seattle 3B/DH, NOT the Red Sox prospect) don't get the respect they deserve when it comes to MVP voting... because hitting isn't all there is to baseball. As a matter of fact, preventing runs (IMO) is more important than scoring runs. So saying someone "sucks as a ballplayer" because he "can't hit" just doesn't agree with me.

 

Second, I have below the numbers for Alex Cora in his BEST season: .264 .364 .380. That's his CAREER year mind you. Alex Gonzalez last year: .264/.319/.368 IN A DOWN YEAR. In Alex Cora's career year, he hit 9 doubles. Really the difference between Gonzalez and Cora OFFENSIVELY is that Cora's more patient. As far as offensive potential is concerned, I'd take Gonzalez' 30 doubles/10 homers/70 RBI over Cora's 20doubles/6 homers 40 RBIs any day of the week. Then you throw gold glove caliber defense on top of that and I'd say Gonzo is a big upgrade over Cora as an everyday shortstop.

[ORS]

Hmm.... that "other" shortstop, who's name is Orlando Cabrera, is being paid $8 million a year. While he's exciting to watch, his defense isn't even close to Alex Gonzalez'. I loved Orlando Cabrera and if you look back at my pre-2005 posts I was dissapointed to see him leave as I'm sure quite a few of us were-- but Alex Gonzalez is arguably a better player, for less money.... Plus, a 2 year commitment means even if he does suck he's not a drag on your payroll....

FWIW, Cabrera is much better with the leather than Alex Gonzalez. Last year OC's Rate was 105, right in ine with his career 106 Rate as a SS, while Gonzalez had a 95 Rate, very close to his career 94 Rate as a SS. OC is capable of a super-stellar year too; his peak Rate year was 2001 when he posted a 121. Gonzalez's best year was 2002 when he put up a 103 Rate. The comparison isn't even close.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

FWIW, Cabrera is much better with the leather than Alex Gonzalez. Last year OC's Rate was 105, right in ine with his career 106 Rate as a SS, while Gonzalez had a 95 Rate, very close to his career 94 Rate as a SS. OC is capable of a super-stellar year too; his peak Rate year was 2001 when he posted a 121. Gonzalez's best year was 2002 when he put up a 103 Rate. The comparison isn't even close.

 

OC is one of my favorite players and I see the slip up by elsebueno but I think the point was that a comparison or OC to Alex Gonzalez is much closer than that of Alex Cora to Gonzalez....

 

I mean honestly can people really envision Alex Cora making a diving stop, turning a fast double play, firing a rocket to 1st?? Does anyone even remember what he looks like?? He looks like the second coming of Jorge Posada (with the fat ass and everything). Seriously Cora is not exactly a stellar athletic machine...just a good fill in...if he starts at SS for us we have probably the worst starting SS in the league. I'd much rather have a guy who's best rate was 103. The one thing I'll say Gonzalez deffinitly has over OC is the arm strength. He can unleash one when he needs to.

[TheMeanWalrus]

if he starts at SS for us we have probably the worst starting SS in the league.

 

 

 

As it stands right now, we may have the worst infield in the league (I do not know enough about Mark Loretta to have an opinion on him)

[ORS]

I'm not arguing that Gonzalez isn't a better option than Cora. Gonzalez cerainly has more upside at the plate, and I do think he has better range and a better arm for SS. Since they have saved some coin by dumping Rent and not signing Damon, I think the $10M/2yrs. Gonzalez wants is a cost they could and should incur. My only point was that OC is much more sure-handed in the field.

[Americal Man]

tmw,

don't forget that lowell was a gg last year - but of course jeter once got a gg too so maybe that is overrated.

[TheMeanWalrus]

tmw,

don't forget that lowell was a gg last year - but of course jeter once got a gg too so maybe that is overrated.

 

 

True, Col, I'm thinking offensively, I shoulda clarified

 

The offensive production we get from the 1B/3B combo this year could be the worst in MLB history. At least those Cards teams in the 80's had Jack Clark

[Americal Man]

tmw,

we have to give lowell a bye for right now. unlike millar who just forgot how to hit, he should do well in fenway and we get more than we think we will. maybe if youk gets to play every day he will get in a groove and get a better feel for the plate. ST will tell us more as youk is coming in knowing he finally has a position even if it is only for one year.

[ORS]

True, Col, I'm thinking offensively, I shoulda clarified

 

The offensive production we get from the 1B/3B combo this year could be the worst in MLB history. At least those Cards teams in the 80's had Jack Clark

The Angels got .703/.694 OPS from 1B/3B last year. Youk & Lowell should have no problem surpassing that.

[Americal Man]

I would hope so. be interesting on what the lineup is going to be once the final pieces are in place. really like to see crisp as the lead off hitter - he is the key acquisition. loretta should be in the two hole with papi, manny, tek?, trot, lowell, youk, and ss ropunding it out. maybe we slide lowel in tek's slot just to give tek more rest this year - he really faded in the stretch last year.

[Mr Crunchy]

The Angels got .703/.694 OPS from 1B/3B last year. Youk & Lowell should have no problem surpassing that.

 

i dont see youk hitting 10 hrs next year

theres nothing to suggest he will

 

snow best be ready for 100 games

i think lowell,in this ballpark,on this team,may see enough good pitches to hit to bat .270

 

his lack of power in the post steroid league is scary however

 

lots of questions and the only answers so far is theo is back

[bigpappi2004]

has anyone heard of the three team deal involving cinicinatti?

 

We get: Crisp

 

Cincy gets: Matt Clement

 

Cleveland gets: Austin Kearns

 

I really would like this deal better than the one involving just the sox and the Guardians

[Americal Man]

I'd rather keep clement because he will do better this year. move him at the trading deadline if he doesn't pan out.

[yeszir]

has anyone heard of the three team deal involving cinicinatti?

 

We get: Crisp

 

Cincy gets: Matt Clement

 

Cleveland gets: Austin Kearns

 

I really would like this deal better than the one involving just the sox and the Guardians

Where did you hear about this one?

[Paradisecity]

Here you go Yezsir:

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2305550

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

has anyone heard of the three team deal involving cinicinatti?

 

We get: Crisp

 

Cincy gets: Matt Clement

 

Cleveland gets: Austin Kearns

 

I really would like this deal better than the one involving just the sox and the Guardians

 

I'm hearing stuff along those lines as well...less and less I see the name Andy Marte....whatever is happening its taking forever.

[26 to 6]

As it stands right now, we may have the worst infield in the league (I do not know enough about Mark Loretta to have an opinion on him)

I like Loretta...definate upgrade. Good player

[ksushi]

The only rumor I've heard today is Manny Delcarmen, Marte, Mota and Shoppach for Crisp, Riske and Bard. Thats a terrible rip off and I hope it doesn't go down.

 

Someone said way up there that Snow should get ready to play 100 games I think because the person implied youk doesn't have enough power... doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Youkilis fits well into the lineup and plays a decent 1st base and I think will get the bulk of the playing time. He's a fine hitter.

 

God, who was it who said we have the worst infield in the league? Christ, when are people going to stop banging their heads against the wall if the Sox don't have ever big name and over the hill future hall of famer in the bigs. If you want that, go be a yankees fan. The Red Sox have what looks like it could be the best defensive infield in the majors with or without Alex Gonzalez. Alex Cora is every bit the shortstop he is, as I see it the only upside to Gonzalez is he was an all star in 97... right. At this point its yet to be seen what Youkilis can do in a full season with the bat, but there haven't been any indications that he won't handle that job anything less than smoothly. The only problem people seem to have with him is he is an old name, boo hoo we're bored with him. Mike Lowell has come back written all over him, but even if he doesn't bounce back like some people think he is still a huge upgrade defensively over Bill Mueller, and thats no knock on Bill Mueller because Mueller is pretty sure handed himself. Lowell is a great guy to have playing third though, and if he is the guy we have to take on to get Josh Beckett, thats fine with me.

 

Maybe the Sox should deal Varitek for Jeff Bagwell and sign Mike Piazza cause he was really funny in those 10-10-220 commercials. Those were great, I bet he'd be awesome.

[seabeachfred]

I think you're on to something. Matos could hold the job this year and maybe next until Jacoby Ellsbury is ready after two full seasons in the minors. There is no one who is going to keep this kid from taking over centerfield when he is ready. He might actually be ready before then; he is that good. He is the real deal. The Guardians are asking too much and it is time to tell them to stop inhaling that foul Cleveland air because it is playing havoc with their brains. Call this deal off unless they accept the first package.