Ramirez not waiting for offseason: seeking new agent to make a trade

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

how does he know if hes going to be unhappy before he signs?

 

-----------------

I think a pretty fair deal for both sides could go something like this.

 

Mets Get:

Manny Ramirez

 

Sox Get:

Heilman or Seo

Trachsel

Cameron

Milledge

 

Seems like Damon wont be back and Cameron is as good as you can get to replace him. You can sign Konerko, pickup an outfielder to play left, and you guys would be in good shape.

During that off-season all you heard was how much he wanted to be a Yankee (since he is from Washington Heights). The Yankees went in another direction (Mike Mussina). So he went for the money in Boston. You hear the same thing with Carl Pavano....you should have known what you are getting yourself into because in the end the team and yourself pay the price.

[Cityofchampions33]

ugh... manny will be under the 10-5 rule which means if he says to the front office a trade will happen, a trade will happen. he's protected under this clause of 10 years in the majors, at least 5 years with the same team. He can pick when it is done, and to what team. theo would have no say over Manny's.

 

I don;t understand what you mean, are you sayin he can control when a deal is done? as in what?

[riverside sluggers]

I don;t understand what you mean, are you sayin he can control when a deal is done? as in what?

 

if manny asks for a trade, Sox cant even say no to him

[26 to 6]

i thought all that 10-5 means is that you can veto ANY trade if you dont already have a no-trade clause in your contract.

[Manny Goes Boom]

i thought all that 10-5 means is that you can veto ANY trade if you dont already have a no-trade clause in your contract.

 

I ALMOST positive that you're right about this, veto power...thats it.

 

Anyway, I am COMPLETELY OPPOSED to trading Manny, even the thought is dumb. And here's why...

 

1) Say we do trade Manny, and for example we use 26 to 6's trade. Cameron, Heilman, Milledge, and Trachsel. OK, so we lose HELLA power and get money...doesn't sound good to me. (But I don't know a damn thing about Milledge)

 

So now Manny is gone. And with the money we saved we sign (obviously not Konerko with the way hes talking and the way his team is playing) Huff. Well, that just sucks because now pitchers are going to MAKE Huff beat them because they are thinking when they see Ortiz come up "f*** this s***. I'm not letting Ortiz beat us, hes the best clutch hitter in baseball...Oh, good 4 fingers." Manny and Ortiz are putting up Ruth/Gehrig numbers! Why on God's green earth would ANYONE trade part of that kind of production. Ortiz's numbers go down significantly if Manny leaves town, theres no doubt about that.

 

And what about Damon? He's not a lock to stay, and trading one of the INTEGRAL parts of the BEST OFFENSE IN BASEBALL will NOT help in our push to keep him here. So with Manny gone, and our Power looking like Ortiz and Huff (he plays in Tampa...I'm not sold on him regardless of his numbers). Thats not very appealing.

 

So now, Manny is gone (one of the Top 3 hitters in baseball in my book...along with Pujols and A-Rod) and Damon is gone. Now Ortiz has got to be thinking "f***...my protection in the lineup has just been shipped out of town and now I got an ex-D'Ray protecting me? Our team doesn't look good at all. What the hell is going on?" And Ortiz gets angry and has a down year. And our offense suffers mightly. And well, this year as you ALL know, our offense carried us into the playoffs. NOT our pitching, which is what we really need to improve in the off-season.

 

Another scenario...

 

We trade Manny to the Mets...but it looks more like this:

 

Red Sox get:

OF Carlos Beltran

SP Steve Trachsel

RP Aaron Heilman

 

Mets get:

OF Manny Ramirez

 

OK. We get an old pitcher with a bad back, an outfielder who has had a terrible season in New York (who is not even close to Manny in offensive prowess), and a nice arm out of the pen (which we ACTUALLY NEED).

 

Again, our power is SIGNIFICANTLY drained, and Ortiz realizes that he has ZERO protection and will have a down year, because of no protection. (remember Beltran makes $17.7 million per year, doesn't give us the salary room to go sign anyone else).

 

With basically no money left after the trade (which everyone seems to want to trade Manny for, to release his salary) signing Damon is COMPLETELY out of the picture, unless Henry and the boys want to catch George in the Total salary category.

 

This scenario gives us a good arm in the pen in Heilman, but we lose an offensive powerhouse and Ortiz's protection. And we also lose our leadoff man, which fuels our offensive attack. Without Manny AND Damon, we are a VERY different team offensively and don't put up the kind of runs that we have the past few years.

 

To me, these two scenarios are possible if either trade I mentioned goes through. I'm not sold on anyone besides Manny protecting Ortiz, if you couldn't tell. And I know everyone will say Konerko or Huff are sufficient, but honestly you'd rather have to depend on either one of them over Manny in the 9th tying runs on and Rivera on the hill? Maybe you would but I sure AS HELL do not.

[He Hate Me]

if Manny leaves, I predict a 30 HR 110 RBI year for Ortiz without Manny protecting him plus 150 Ks as he tries to overcompensate for the lack of Manny's bat

[riverside sluggers]

if Manny leaves, I predict a 30 HR 110 RBI year for Ortiz without Manny protecting him plus 150 Ks as he tries to overcompensate for the lack of Manny's bat

 

dont forget how many times will they intentionally walk Ortiz to get to the batter behind him

[MANNYHOF24]

Manny cant go, he is the best hitter in the A.L, he is a clutch hitter as well, trading manny doesnt make sense, and dont forget next is a contract year for Ortiz, so if manny goes, then David could walk after the season. becuase he's pissed off about the Sox letting go of first Pedro then Manny his two best friends on the team, He would probally end up in PinStripes

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

If the Red Sox move Manny they save a BUNCH of money. They would be able to get two strong hitters for one. I like the damage that Ortiz and Manny do BUT...I'm more interested in having a full batting lineup that is lethal...not just the #3 and #4 hitters. If the Red Sox can find leaders with an upgrade in defense and still be able to put up decent numbers...this is not a bad thing.

 

I would really like to see the Sox get back to what helped them win this thing last year....strong defense and great pitching. The Red Sox will still be able to score runs but its more important to keep the other team from scoring runs. Even the best hitter in baseball only hits 1 out of 3 at bats. If this team can somehow put together the top rotation in baseball and a strong bullpen...nobody can stop us cause I'll take the best pitching over the best hitting anyday.

[He Hate Me]

dont forget how many times will they intentionally walk Ortiz to get to the batter behind him

 

oh yeah, the guy's definetely gonna get the Bonds treatment. Though if teams were smart, they'd give him the unintentional/intentional walk each time and hope that Ortiz will swing at something out of the zone in desparation

[jimmycarter05]

hey! getting swept by the white sox has taught us something here...the best pitching OWNS the best hitting...lets say we trade manny to the mets for a excellent pitcher, not some injury prone geezer like steve trashcel, i mean like jeo seo wong, above average hitter and an above average bullpen guy...this way we'll save money....and do you have any clue you guys haven't been talking about thats a free agent? ALFONSO SORIANO!!!!!! look at his batting stats! this year he hit 36 homers, drove in 104, scored 102, stole 30 bases, and was only caught stealing 2 times! 2!!!! not too mention we can hopefully acquire huff as our starting first baseman, resign damon...and theres a good backup out now too, matt lecroy(17 homers, 50 RBIs, .260 BA)....theo can also pursue good pitchers like matt morris or jarrod washburn and good bullpen guys like kyle farnsworth, julian taverez, and maybe if he's heathly al reyes...the 2006 boston could look like this;

 

 

damon

renteria

ortiz

soriano

huff

tek

mike cameron(mets trade,maybe juan encarnaction here playing lf)

nixon(i also would like juan encarnaction here maybe)

youkilis-its bout time!

 

 

starting pitchers

a HEALTHY schilling

jeo seo wang(mets trade)

matt morris/jarrod washburn(one or the other)

wakefield(great job this year)

boomer/papelbon(only if boomer retires, otherwise pitch papelbon)

 

TRADE MATT CLEMENT!!!!!

 

bullpen

a HEALTHY foulke-closer

farnsworth/heilman(heilman from mets trade, this is either/or)- set up, closer

taverez/al reyes-(one or the other)

arroyo/papelbon-(long relief/ 6th pitcher-only if papelbon doesn't get in the rotation or a pitcher is hurt or struggling, otherwise trade arryo)

bradford/myers-(gotta keep one submariner)

timlin-(if he doesn't retire)

 

bench players

lecory-(1b)

cora/ hanley- (loved cora, but if he costs too much he has got to go, hanley could get mlb ready- (2B/SS)

jeff conie-(backup OF)

lenny harris-(back up 3b)

 

 

great pitching, great bullpen, great lineup...i know i have no control over what boston will look like, but if i did this be it

:thumbsup:

[ClayBuchholzIsDaFuture]

Trade I would do ...

 

Mets get:

Manny

 

Redsox get:

Cliff Floyd

Yasimuro Petit

Gastin Milledge(spell check )

 

Or, I would have the Mets take Edgars contract ..

 

Mets get:

Manny

Reinteria

 

Red Sox get:

David Wright

Petit

Milledge

 

* Sox sign Furcal

[riverside sluggers]

I dont think Sox would take Cliff Floyd. Its just that Cliff Floyd and Red Sox front office had left on sour notes

[riverside sluggers]

lets say we trade manny to the mets for a excellent pitcher, not some injury prone geezer like steve trashcel

 

35 years old is a geezer huh? Wells, Schilling, Timlin, Wakefield, Olerud, and Mike Myers are well over 35 years old, are they geezers too.

 

Injury prone? this year was the first season he actually missed time, you dont know your stats too well. from 1995 to 2004 he averaged 30 or more starts a season. he would have more wins notched to him, except Mets are notorious for giving him low run support

 

2005- 6 starts, 1-4 record, 4.14 ERA

2004- 33 starts, 12-13 record, 4.00 ERA

2003- 33 starts, 16-10 record, 3.78 ERA

2002- 30 starts, 11-11 record, 3.37 ERA

2001- 28 starts, 11-13 record, 4.46 ERA

[jimmycarter05]

35 years old is a geezer huh? Wells, Schilling, Timlin, Wakefield, Olerud, and Mike Myers are well over 35 years old, are they geezers too.

 

Injury prone? this year was the first season he actually missed time, you dont know your stats too well. from 1995 to 2004 he averaged 30 or more starts a season. he would have more wins notched to him, except Mets are notorious for giving him low run support

 

2005- 6 starts, 1-4 record, 4.14 ERA

2004- 33 starts, 12-13 record, 4.00 ERA

2003- 33 starts, 16-10 record, 3.78 ERA

2002- 30 starts, 11-11 record, 3.37 ERA

2001- 28 starts, 11-13 record, 4.46 ERA

 

 

he's a sub-.500 career pitcher with a career ERA of 4.23 and he's 35 years old....i don't like him and we could get a much better pitcher than him...a younger one too

[Manny Goes Boom]

OK, so now were going to sign every damn free-agent out there huh? What's our salary going to be then...$250-$300 million???

 

Guys lets be realistic, we cant get Soriano, Huff, resign Damon, get Farnsworth, Tavarez, and Al Reyes JUST because we got rid of Manny. Dude he makes $20 million, not $100 million.

 

And the Mets will NEVER trade Wright, hes too good at such a young age.

[riverside sluggers]

hey dud i never said to get rid of Manny, thats only way we can get Huff.

 

even if Manny stays, I still want the Red Sox to go for Aubrey Huff. Unlike Konerko, he sounded happy at the thought of making Fenway Park his home

[jimmycarter05]

OK, so now were going to sign every damn free-agent out there huh? What's our salary going to be then...$250-$300 million???

 

Guys lets be realistic, we cant get Soriano, Huff, resign Damon, get Farnsworth, Tavarez, and Al Reyes JUST because we got rid of Manny. Dude he makes $20 million, not $100 million.

 

And the Mets will NEVER trade Wright, hes too good at such a young age.

 

 

i meant only one of them since heilman will be included in the manny deal...sign soriano to a 4 year/28 million and huff to 3 year/15 million max...and you still have 8 million left over from manny's contract to get ONE of those bullpen guys

[Manny Goes Boom]

hey dud i never said to get rid of Manny, thats only way we can get Huff.

 

even if Manny stays, I still want the Red Sox to go for Aubrey Huff. Unlike Konerko, he sounded happy at the thought of making Fenway Park his home

 

I meant jimmycarter05 he thinks this is MVP baseball or something. Signing every AL All-Star possible.

[jimmycarter05]

I meant jimmycarter05 he thinks this is MVP baseball or something. Signing every AL All-Star possible.

1. Manny Ramirez 19,806,820

2. Curt Schilling 14,500,000

3. Johnny Damon 8,250,000

4. Edgar Renteria 8,000,000

5. Jason Varitek 8,000,000

6. Trot Nixon 7,500,000

7. Matt Clement 6,500,000

8. David Ortiz 5,250,000

9. Tim Wakefield 4,670,000

10. David Wells 4,075,000

11. Kevin Millar 3,500,000

12. Mike Timlin 2,750,000

13. Bill Mueller 2,500,000

14. Bronson Arroyo 1,850,000

15. Doug Mirabelli 1,500,000

16. Wade Miller 1,500,000

17. Chad Bradford 1,400,000

18. Alex Cora 1,300,000

19. Tony Graffanino 1,100,000

20. Matt Mantei 750,000

21. Mike Myers 600,000

22. Adam Hyzdu 375,000

23. Kevin Youkilis 323,125

 

theres our 2005 payroll- 21,150,000 of that will be gone and used to pursue free agents....if we traded manny and lets say we spilt the money with the mets we're up to 31,053,410 MILLION DOLLARS for free agency...we get jeo seo wang, heilman, and cameron out of the manny deal....we still have 31 million dollars left...sign soriano to 4 year/32 million...now your down to about 23 million....sign huff to 3 year/18 million...now you're down to about 17 million...signed morris OR washburn to 3 year/21 million...now you're down to about 10 million...sign taverez, reyes, farnsworth...ONE OF THEM!!!!...to 4 year/8million dollar contract.....now you're down to 8 million....we still have 8 million dollars to get anybody else you want...some guys i would go for are matt lecroy,jeff conie, and lenny harris..sign them to 2 year/4.5 million, which totals up to 6.75 million for all 3...you stll have 1.25 million bucks left over....not too shabby and you got what you needed....better pitching, better pen, and 2 great bats to protect ortiz if you trade manny

[Manny Goes Boom]

Fine and dandy, but signing those guys will make it increase.

 

All this amounts to is people are just so eager to trade one of the best hitters our generation has seen. A HOFer when he retires in my book. And hes my favorite player, so it will SUCK if the Sox lost my favorite pitcher AND player in a span of two years. (Pedro and Manny)

[jimmycarter05]

quite frankley, i'm dont want to trade him, but you have to ask yourself if he's worth it...will he still produce his numbers when he doesn't want to be here...take this year for example...for the first time in a long tim he didn't hit over .300, he was 8 points short, and his doubles were way down(44 in 04, 30 in 05), his OPS was also not above 1000 this year for the first time in a long time...yes he's a great hitter, but is he worth it, if you don't think he is, then you have to get rid of him

[Manny Goes Boom]

Down year maybe, but he did have hamstring troubles for a period of time. I think hes worth it, him and Ortiz are extremely potent.

[mosox]

In the week before the trading deadline when Manny didn't play, Ortiz was practically walked on every at bat. Replacing Manny as well as a guy who can protect Ortiz is impossible. Also consider Renteria scored over a hundred runs in a year he didn't hit all that well. All thanks to Ortiz and Manny. If you think this team struggled after losing pitching just wait until the clean up hitter is gone.

[User Name]

Manny Wants to Change Sox (From BostonDirtDogs.com)

 

 

[jimmycarter05]

Manny Wants to Change Sox (From BostonDirtDogs.com)

 

 

 

thank you!!!but, if we trade him to the white sox it be hard to get a good hitter out of it, maybe jermanie dye, but other than konkero(who isn't coming) i don't like a white sox trade..it would have to be a 3 way with another team or something...we could definatley get some good pitching

 

 

:dunno:

[Boogie]

Trading Manny to the Mets is not going to give you as much as you would hope. Omar has been reluctant about trading any of his farm system, nonetheless David Wright. Chances are if you get any prospect at all it will be Lastings Milledge. Think Trachsel, Cameron, and Milledge at the most.

[yankeessuck013]

I just can't see them breaking up the 1-2 punch with Ortiz. Everyone likes to talk about getting Adam Dunn or Cliff Floyd. Well, Dunn doesn't hit for average, and is a lefty as is Floyd. So, they would not provide nearly the same protection for Papi that Manny does. If they trade Manny, then the entire lineup has to be overhauled. Guys like Nixon and Varitek have proven they cannot be counted to knock in runs.

[jimmycarter05]

what about carlos lee? :dunno:

[yankeessuck013]

what about carlos lee? :dunno:

 

brewers will pick up his option and there's no way they would take on manny