Hugh2

Every good to great starting pitcher was developed somewhere. So if it never comes to fruition you’re doing something wrong. Hence, the concept of putting time, money, effort, and the RIGHT personnel into development. Whether we like it or not, it takes time. That’s not an argument it’s just reality. Which is why I was a big proponent of buying starting pitching this offseason. A big market team like Boston (who is currently acting like a mid market club) can afford to invest in pitching. If they wanted. I thinking taking the long road is more optimal for long term success, but I wanted to see now moves too in the interim. They have failed 100% to date, but I want bash them for doing something right.

It’s not excusing anything, it’s just logic. If they take a 16 year old in IFA, or draft an 18 year old. They’re not starting games in the majors for years to come. That’s just reality Could go college pitching, and reduce that lead time. But even then, you’re looking at a few years of building up innings and development. That’s. That’s exactly what developing pitching entails

In terms of fixing the pitching and development approach they have allegedly made many changes in just the last couple years. It’s worth noting, that it would take years to bear fruit. We will never know those changes are good until years down the road. I would also like to point out that they could have put all the right people there, up and down the system, but it’s going to be hard if you’re not drafting a lot of those guys. To some extent it’s a numbers game. I’m curious to see if the drafting strategy changes with Breslow. They did take a much larger amount of pitchers in IFA last year. But again, If those guys pan out it’s going to be 5+++ years or so until they start to contribute.

Just a reminder that pitchers and catchers report in 39 days. Soon the season will begin and there will be absolutely nothing to fight about.

Depends if he's more like the 1st half Yoshida, or the 2nd half. He's not as big of a butcher in LF as people say, but the bat was good before he really slowed down in the second half.

I was about to say yes, then I realized Darvish is 37.

I don't really want to touch the Bauer situation again, I think I already gave myself and everyone else PTSD. But taking all the drama out of the equation he's a guy who hasn't pitched in the majors in 2.5 years. He does offer upside, but carries risk, and he probably takes a 1-2 year pillow contract to help he rebuild value. We already have a guy like that with the signing of Giolito, at this point we need certainty in the rotation. Perferably with talent.

I've been saying this same mantra for years, but I'm starting to shift my opinion on it. Yes you can trade hitting for pitching, but you can't get away with that to build the majority of your pitching staff. Yes we've developed our own guys who are good E.G. Houck. But not enough high end talent. When is the last time we developed an ACE? Sure we can trade for one, and perhaps we should, but if you're trading 4 for 1, or 3 for 1 prospects for pitching, eventually you're going to have no team on the field behind them. Prospects bust, but some don't, and the more bullets you fire the more Bogaerts, Betts, Durans, Casas, Bello's, Houcks you're missing out on. I know the talent level varies on that list, but you need good to better talent all up/down your roster to compete for championships. At some point, the Boston Red Sox are going to have to do a much better job of bringing in elite pitching talent, Whether that's trading for younger pitching prospects who they can better evaluate and develop (a good example of this would be if Fitts develops into a #3) and/or drafting pitchers via Rule 4 and IFA.

Their* ughhh

If they make no other pitching additions, then maybe they’re blatantly punting on 2024. If that’s the case, there’s no way they are making a major addition to the pitching staff with or without Sales money. At least they got a young 23 year old with a lot of upside. Still, they need pitching. If they’re not buying pitching they better start drafting and developing it. If that’s there plan. Our only path to success is either waiting another 4 years, or having a season where everything breaks right. Don’t shoot the messenger.

If they just wanted to cut payroll, why get Grissom? Usually teams kick in money to get back a better return. If the motivation was to cut payroll, then why not take back a less valuable piece and have Atlanta or another team eat more of the money?

Ughhhh I’m mixing up my threads again. My bad

If we are arguing whether the Sox are going to go “full throttle” and sign a guy like Montgomery, I’m not disputing that we are all going to be very disappointed most likely. What I’m disputing is, getting a team like Atlanta to eat more salary on what is effectively a one year deal is not moving the needle. Whatever the Sox would offer Jordan Montgomery, If they are in fact going to make an offer is likely exactly the same amount whether Atlanta took on the full salary or not. One is not affecting the other.

Not really. Because I think it’s 100% false that trading Chris Sale prevents the Sox from going out and signing a pitcher better than Giolito. If anything it opens up a roster spot and makes it more likely.

If no additional moves come I’d be dissatisfied, and I’d surely grab my pitchforks and join the ranks. But to me in that scenario this deal doesn’t get better or worse, but I’d I had to chose I’d say it’s even better then. Think about it. If we make no other moves we probably won’t be very good this year. If we keep sale and suck again we just pay him the full salary and lose him for nothing. At least this way we have a young cost controlled talent with upside. Regardless of what happens in 2024, we have him thru the 2029 season. He could very well play a role in future winning teams. Sale never will no matter what

You seriously think they wouldn’t go over the cap for one year? Pay a few extra million for one year? To not sign Montgomery? What makes more sense. A.) Sox won’t sign Montgomery because they are unwilling to commit the contract he will command, and because they’re weary of long term contracts to aging pitchers? (Spoiler alert. Huge precedent here) Or B.) they have a set budget and will not go over it because the Red Sox do not go past the luxury tax limit. Sox have said they would go over. (Spoiler alert. Also precedent for this) Before you continue reading take note there’s zero precedent for B. Because they have a history of going over the luxury tax and setting themselves up to reset, which they’re in. They had a budget all those years too, every team has a budget, you think those budgets are 100% set in stone? That’s absurd. They’re in the same financial boat in 2025 even if the Braves took 100% of the contract. Also worth nothing, there’s IS clear precedent for A. In action and in statement. They haven’t signed big pitchers and still gone past the cap. The budget isn’t just about one year, it’s about year over year. That’s why they sign guys to short term contracts and shy away from long term. It’s why team look to reset, going over the cap is 100% inconsequential to a team like Boston when they have the ability to reset the next year. Even the freaking Dodgers are setting themselves up to get below thresholds. Yes, even they care about AAV. It’s not just total money, it’s the years. Sox literally blew past the cap just two years ago, and had the highest payroll in baseball a few before that. Of course they have a budget, but $17 million for one year isn’t stopping them from offering whatever they think is fair to Snell or Montgomery. That’s literally got to be one of the most irrational I’ve heard on here all year. I don’t believe the Sox will make those moves, because in a vacuum they don’t want to spend the money on those guys. If 200/8 gets you Snell, the Sox aren’t offering that WITH OR WITHOUT Sales $17 million. They’re cheap with long term deals, they don’t give a rats ass about going over the cap for one years. Why can’t you see that? I feel like this is obvious to 99.99% of the baseball world. If the Sox don’t sign another starting pitcher it’s 100% because they’re cheap *******s and 100% nothing to do with how much money they got Atlanta to eat. If you can’t understand that then just give up. Don’t pass go. Don’t collect $200 No team has a budget that is 100% set in stone. Some are more flexible than others, if according to you I’m the only one in here then I’ll be proud to have good financial prowess compared to others. Teams will go under/over their budgets for the right circumstances. If the Boston Red Sox for example COULD Snell for 200/8, they would do it. They wouldn’t walk away from that deal because they have to pay Chris Sale $17 for ONE YEAR. That’s just ridiculous

“Hey Jordan, we can’t offer you 160/8. Yeah I know, it’s unfortunate but we only got the Braves to eat $10 million so we just aren’t willing to go above 145” That’s stupid logic 2024: Sox probably have enough money to sign one of Snell/Montgomery (if they wanted to) and still stay under the cap. And even if they had to get under they could easily move Jensen/Martin/Pivetta one of those three to get under. Also, they’ve specifically stated in the past they would be willing to go over if the circumstances were right. In the end, the Sox will either be willing to spend the money on a Snell type or they will not. Not intelligent baseball fan actually thinks the Braves not eating his contract changes that. 2025. Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV 2026. Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV 2027. Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV 2028. Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV 2029 Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV 2030 Sales Money is off the books does not have any bearing on a Snell/Montgomery AAV But don’t worry. I see you. If the Sox don’t make any other major starting pitching additions you will be the one screaming it was because they kicked in too much money for one year on the Chris Sale trade If you don’t like the trade that’s fine, if you don’t like Grissom that’s your opinion, I can respect that. But this trade doesn’t prevent them from signing a pitcher. Not even close.

Also, let me add, that $17 million for ONE YEAR is not stopping the Sox from signing Montgomery, Snell, Stroman, or whoever. Whatever dollar amount they figure to offer them is not going to be affected by this trade in any way. The Chris Sale money and bringing in another pitcher are mutually exclusive. This is pretty obvious

Lol That’s 100% conjecture. You have zero evidence of that, teams throw in money all the time. Breslow, and the Sox are connected to the inside world more than me and you. They have a very good ideal what these teams are willing to spend and what their budgets are. Why do you care so much that the Braves paid more than they did? What advantage is that to the Sox? This is exactly what I’m talking about. You’re making things up to hate the trade, because you’re a cynic.

Soxprospects does it about better than anyone else, I find that a little surprising too though. I bet they’d be the first to admit they’re wrong. I can see that being adjusted again before spring training.

Irrelevant. The money was a sunk cost, it was already being paid. The only way to reduce that money would be to take a lesser player in return. But what do you care? You’ve usually been in the “it’s not my money” camp. You can’t like the trade and hate the trade at the same time. Pick a stance, if you don’t like the money kicked in, then at least acknowledge that you’re getting no value back in return. Instead you got 6 years of control for a 22 year old highly regarded prospect. Pretty much everyone across baseball, including the Red Sox biggest critics, haven given them very high marks for this trade. You seem to be one of the only people on earth who does not like it. That’s why I think you’re being cynical https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/chris-sale-trade-grades-braves-red-sox-both-get-a-marks-in-vaughn-grissom-swap-for-oft-injured-ace/amp/

Idk, we’re not allowed to talk about it apparently. More important things to talk about.

Lol what? No offense, but it feels like you will create anything up just to insult every move this team makes. Which is odd, because one would think you’d need zero help given this teams recent performance.

Then, and only then, he will be a great manager in LA

Seems logical, I would throw Yorke in with the Duran/Abreu/Rafaela crowd of guys who may be getting moved